The Secret's Out: Internet Media Is Beginning to Report That Jared Loughner Is a Member Of Abovetop

To be fair, ATS has had other wackos come through here who end up killing.

and then I am sure there are unknowns that have come here and done such whacky crap.

Its not like ATS is some tiny weirdo fringe website. If it was 00 it might've been a little creepier but ATS is so big now its inevitable.

I mean youtube is to video as ATS is to conspiracy.

I have noticed that some people in this thread don't seem to be getting the message here. I don't want to single anyone out, but certain individuals in this thread seem to think it is alright to make aggressive and violent comments about politicians.

I certainly don't want to impose on anyone's freedom of speech, but making references to killing politicians or starting an armed revolution is inappropriate and irresponsible, particularly in light of recent events. I understand that many on ATS are beyond frustrated with the current political climate, but please think before you speak.

Even if Jared Loughner's actions weren't influenced by the comments on ATS, other people's actions CAN be. There is nothing wrong with criticizing one's government, but advocating violence against it is as wrong as the unjust wars and laws our governments pass and support. Call me naive, call me wrong, but violence is never the answer.

When you advocate violence on a public forum, you are advocating violence to the world. Someone who is mentally ill may be reading your post, and may kill a bunch of people because you and others have validated their beliefs. The police or FBI might be reading your post and take it as a threat. A fellow site member may misinterpret your words and report you to authorities for fear that you may commit a public shooting.

Advocating violence on the internet is careless and irresponsible, and can get you, the people you interact with, and the websites you visit, in a lot of trouble. It is posts like this that will put ATS in jeopardy, not some lone whacko with a gun. I'm not telling anyone they have to do what I say, I'm imploring that they do.

This is not about individuals; it is about taking individual responsibility to affect the whole.

This will all be forgotten about when the next big news story comes along to the MSM.

Will probably be when Julian Assange releases his info on Bank of America.

Originally posted by Gazrok

a) If people are directed here the ATS advertising revenue increases so its going to be in the interests of ATS owners to encourage more traffic (I guess that is one of the reasons they stated their own thread on this subject, yes its blood money, but better in the long run to have an 'official' take on the subject)

I can tell you with certainty, that the issue of increased traffic was not even a point of conversation in this decision. (I don't even recall it being raised, to be honest)....

The decision for an official post on the matter was made SOLELY for transparency, and the desire to be upfront with both the ATS community, and the global community. It's just good business, and the moral and just thing to do. Simple as that.

You may not recall it being raised....maybe it wasnt even raised in your presence, but it would be foolish to not consider the business implications IF there was any reason to think that him being a member of ATS could possibly reflect on the ability of the site to generate revenue.

I find it hard to believe that the site owners would totally disregard the possible implications to their sponsors. If it were me i'd also be interested in the reputation of my sponsors, members and the site name.

reply to post by T3hEn1337ened


Nice post. Freedom of speech is one thing. Advocating violence or hate is a different thing entirely.

There are laws against hate crimes. There should also be laws against advocating violence of any kind on anyone.

Just like we can't (and shouldn't) go after someone due to race, sexual orientation, etc, or yell "fire" in a crowded theatre or airplane, we shouldn't be able to make violent threats towards anyone and have it protected under freedom of speech.

There should definitely be limits imposed as common sense isn't so common anymore.

reply to post by akira131


Why would you even feel the need to defend your membership? You are an adult yes? If anyone associates you with a murderer for your membership here, maybe you need to take a closer look at your friends?

Originally posted by T3hEn1337ened
I have noticed that some people in this thread don't seem to be getting the message here. I don't want to single anyone out, but certain individuals in this thread seem to think it is alright to make aggressive and violent comments about politicians.

I certainly don't want to impose on anyone's freedom of speech, but making references to killing politicians or starting an armed revolution is inappropriate and irresponsible, particularly in light of recent events. I understand that many on ATS are beyond frustrated with the current political climate, but please think before you speak.

Even if Jared Loughner's actions weren't influenced by the comments on ATS, other people's actions CAN be. There is nothing wrong with criticizing one's government, but advocating violence against it is as wrong as the unjust wars and laws our governments pass and support. Call me naive, call me wrong, but violence is never the answer.

When you advocate violence on a public forum, you are advocating violence to the world. Someone who is mentally ill may be reading your post, and may kill a bunch of people because you and others have validated their beliefs. The police or FBI might be reading your post and take it as a threat. A fellow site member may misinterpret your words and report you to authorities for fear that you may commit a public shooting.

Advocating violence on the internet is careless and irresponsible, and can get you, the people you interact with, and the websites you visit, in a lot of trouble. It is posts like this that will put ATS in jeopardy, not some lone whacko with a gun. I'm not telling anyone they have to do what I say, I'm imploring that they do.

This is not about individuals; it is about taking individual responsibility to affect the whole.

Very well said. lets just hope cooler heads prevail and people start to look at this situation from a community stand point and not a "how does this effect me" stand.

reply to post by Somehumanbeing
why who else has been on here who has murdered someone?

Originally posted by Char-Lee
His ability to go on the websites here and others and rant his feelings may have held him from violence for a time actually. it sometimes works that way with these kinds of people they need an outlet. it is surprising he did not kill himself though that would have been typical of this kind of thing.

He was tackled and held down, or else he probably would have committed suicide. That plus there was a guy in the audience that was about to draw down on him right before he was subdued.

I had some medical tests this morning, so I've been home most of the day. I just watched news programs from CNN, FoxNews and a couple of local network news shows I had recorded. Not one of them mentioned anything about ATS or any other site or group. In fact on one they said the FBI had said the opposite, that this nut was not connected to any other person or group.

At least in the MSN his connection to ATS is a non-story.

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


yes im an adult and yes i'll also defend my membership and activities here because nothing i would deem appropriate discussion or legitimate beliefs are anything i would not also defend in a face to face conversation. i dont hide behind a computer screen nor would i allow the reputation of a legitimate arena for discussion of alternative topics to suffer because of one persons reprehensible acts. forums in which people can openly and freely express interest or concern for current events are vital for the free flow of information and the places in which this can happen are quickly disappearing. ignorance does not an enemy make, what good is the power of knowledge if you do not do what you can to spread that power to your fellow man?

Are any of erad3's post still up, or were they all removed? I'd like to read some of them...

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by bozzchem

 

Yes. I'm sure all those half-wit doctors just barely drudged through medical school so that the patients would know all about their jobs and what their lives are like.

Yeah, those dumb doctors.

How is this on topic?

Miraj,

everytime I see you it seems that you are contrary. Are you a professional "devils advocate"?

reply to post by mishigas


Here's the link to his profile page, you can click his posts from there.

erad3 profile link...

Enjoy!

nevermind. I thought erads pages were gone.

Wow, this is sad news, but at the same time is kind of non-news

So an insane killer was a member of ATS
This insane killer also went to such and such school, doesn't mean that that school, whatever it is, is guilty
This insane man was also an American, doesn't mean all Americans are crazy

I mean if people want to generalize on ATS, why stop there?
Why not say every young guy with curly hair a potential mass murderer

Remember that shooter that was a goth, and he went on a shooting spree at Dawson College in Montreal?
He was a member of some gothic vampire site or something of the sort
For a period of time people were scared that all gothic people have a deep love for bloodshed
It's kind of human nature to generalize

The real news is that this guy had mental problems, was probably on medications and he killed a many innocent people including political figures and a girl that barely even got to understand the world she lived in yet

My most sincere of condolences to the families of the innocent victims and I hope that those in the hospital pull through this tragic event and live a healthy life

One important note however..... I think ATS should add to it's T&Cs a zero tolerance policy on members promoting a call to arms against the powers that be
There should no longer be such dialogue allowed here, as mentioned it's almost irrelevant that this shooter was an ATS member however it doesn't mean the T&Cs shouldn't adapt to a growing tense and angry climate.

If people want to generalize then talk about getting people who promote crazy like Rush Limbaugh off the radio

My respects to everyone on the face of this planet!!!!

reply to post by akira131


I realized what that sounded like after I posted it. I was waiting for your reply so I could catch you. It came off rude and that was not my intention. So I apologize if that was how it was recieved.

Your explanation is understandable. I can admit when I see another valid viewpoint (it hurts)

Again my apologies.

I gotta new conspiracy.

Its Godlike Productions behind it all

sorry.

I had to interject some levity into the site.

No disrespect to any of the victims is intended.

I was listening to Randi Rhodes today and one of her callers, Mark Potok, mentioned a certain theorist by the name of David Wynn Miller who is concerned with grammar as a control mechanism for thought. Apparently his theories go as far as saying semi-colons in your name can stop you paying your taxes, which is coming from Potok. I've never heard of this D.W. Miller person, but Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center painted him with a sweeping brush as crazy; the concept, per the source, being false and inane.

Southern Poverty Law Center

At another, Loughner makes extraordinarily obscure comments about language and grammar, suggesting that the government engages in “mind control on the people by controlling grammar.” That’s not the kind of idea that’s very common out there, even on the Internet. In fact, I think it’s pretty clear that Loughner is taking ideas from Patriot conspiracy theorist David Wynn Miller of Milwaukee. Miller claims that the government uses grammar to “enslave” Americans and offers up his truly weird “Truth-language” as an antidote.

A topical comment I would make is that written words are formalized standards and need not have anything to do with spoken discourse. Semicolons, colons and other punctuation marks are abstractions of rhythm and pacing in our speech - often having no necessary associated spoken interruption, such as quotation marks.

Depending on how you define grammar, the irony is that the same people making such statements are using "grammar" to say that the rhetoric coming from Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Palin and others is fueling a dangerous situation.

As a linguist, I will say that grammar in the lay sense - as in conjugating verbs and correct prepositional placement - is not even one iota of the issue. As linguistics sees it, "grammar" is composed of the lexicon (the word-base of a given language), morphology (how words are interconnected and constructed) and syntax (word order). Secondarily, we may include semantics, which can be either the individual meanings of various words or the overarching meaning of a constructed sentence.

Plenty of prominent Linguists, such as George Orwell, Noam Chomsky and George Lakoff will all agree that the language you use can and certainly does affect the message. How can it not? The message can only be conveyed by language (and of course pictures).

My stance is that the framing of the message (for an overview of frames in cognitive linguistics, please search for George Lakoff) by the RNC, Fox News and conservative pundits has created a certain mentality.

How much that that may have affected this individual is not known by me. However, I will say that a cursory comparison of Foxnation.com topics, the actual language of the articles they cite, and the responses of their posters show very clearly how "grammar" can affect reactions of a certain color.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Okay take a deep breath, I know you're all riled up with this crazy news but should we all have to lose a little bit more of our freedom due to some guy who clearly lost his grip on reality?