Gabrielle Giffords shooting reignites row over rightwing rhetoric in US

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Let me tell you what I learned from this:

1. Political pundits on the left are a bunch of vultures. They didn't even wait till the initial reports were sorted out before the blame and association went out against Sarah Palin and the Tea Party. All based on a web graphic that look eerily similar to this image created by the Dems when they were campaigning against Bush:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e49ce7b94634.jpeg[/atsimg]

2. Interestingly This is what is being said about Fox on the market-ticker.org:

This statement is very true

Yesterday's news coverage was interesting. I scanned the channels and listened to at least a bit of all of them. There was only one station that was not trying to spin this as a "radical Tea Party type" assault - Fox News! Amazingly enough they didn't try to pin it on the left either - they instead went out of their way to not do that, and to paint what, at this point, looks like a fairly-accurate picture - a guy who was disturbed at best, psychotic at worst, and had no known or reasonably-presumed connection to anything political - from either side.

They keep asking on the news what this says about our political discourse. This kid was INSANE. The only thing it says about our political discourse is that American liberal media is content with jumping to conclusions to score quick political points before anyone has the facts.

That's disgusting to me.

3. I've learned that if the political vultures wanna feast on the corpses of the victims in this incident they will regardless of what the facts say. And likely one of these vultures will come along soon to refute everything in my post as ridiculous because somehow casting right wingers in the same light as someone who has no sense of reality or right and wrong is ok and equivalent because there's a graphic on the SarahPac website that has an eerie coincidence on it....

4. I've learned that some of you people need to grow the hell up and learn to use your freakin' brains and wait for facts to come in before you draw conclusions.

But what the hell do I know...I'm only arguing against the points that the party of "scientific consensus" is making...So far I have yet to see very scientific behavior coming out of the left over this one.

reply to post by sara123123


If you were, say, a British citizen opposed to immigration rights, and you wanted to let other people know your thoughts, so long as you did not explicitly say that anyone should be harmed , you would not be prosecuted.

Otherwise, do you really think Nick Griffin would still be walking around?

reply to post by TKDRL


What are you referring to oversimplified arguements? gun control freedom of speach or what? You need to state which one before I go off to bed.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

reply to post by tiger5

It is a fact that guns do not prevent crime.

That is the "fact" I was speaking of.

That article you link to relies a little too much on an organization, southern poverty law, is the same group that touts us here as being potential radicals, no?

After reading the statement and what all is posted, it can be stated that the initial statement about keeping what we dislike is not the way to go. In the United States of America, we do have the freedom of speech. People from all walks of life will state what they do and do not like, hate, and find revolting. The true test for the freedom of speech is that we are willing to stand up for that which one disagrees with. So we may not like what the WBC may state, but to stand up for their right to say and send the message that they are known for, that is what the Freedom of Speech is about.
When someone is in the publics eye, to do and say things that the general public may find distasteful, there is always an element of risk, and part of that risk is that someone else is willing to pull the trigger, all for an idea. Many wars and conflicts have been fought over those very things, going back in history.
In the US, right now, the public is very disgruntled and upset, partly cause many levels of government has chosen to treat the general population as a burden, than an honor to serve and be in that position. From city governments who have cheated the very people they were suppose to serve, county governments acting in a matter of fraud, and a federal government out right lying to the very people who they are suppose to represent. The rules and laws are often seem to be a double standard, and the people are tired.
This shooting is not surprising, nor unexpected, as it is a sign of the times, where people are willing to go to extremes, and more of those who would never think of taking such actions are now starting to consider these kinds of actions to make such statements. It is not going to go well on either end, either from the point of view of the federal government or the citizens of the country. We can only hope that cooler heads will prevail.

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
This shooting is not surprising, nor unexpected, as it is a sign of the times, where people are willing to go to extremes, and more of those who would never think of taking such actions are now starting to consider these kinds of actions to make such statements. It is not going to go well on either end, either from the point of view of the federal government or the citizens of the country. We can only hope that cooler heads will prevail.

Yeah, I'm thinking that it does not matter at all, what Jared said his political ideologies were, it only matters that he decided to be extreme and violent about them. You are right on, it's a sign of the times. Jared was very mentaly ill, and unfortunately, extreme emotion-fanning rhetoric is common in the US, where a mentaly ill person can become aroused by them. I found a guy's blog where he shows some of Jared's writings, and Jared says he is a Nihilist.
Not anarchist.
www.battleswarmblog.com...

here is a video of him acting very weird out in the wilderness.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by tiger5

 

It is a fact that guns do not prevent crime.

That is the "fact" I was speaking of.

That article you link to relies a little too much on an organization, southern poverty law, is the same group that touts us here as being potential radicals, no?

edit on Sun, 09 Jan 2011 20:23:13 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

TKDRL, You know as will as me, tiger5 has no facts to back that statement up.

"It really is time for Americans to take up pitchforks"

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO)

Hmmm?

reply to post by WTFover


I'm going to hope she said that in reference to agriculture, not to the arrival of a circus troupe.

reply to post by TheWill


Actually, it was said during the debate on extending the tax cuts, at the beginning of December 2010.

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by TheWill

 

Actually, it was said during the debate on extending the tax cuts, at the beginning of December 2010.

And no she wasn't talking about using pitchforks in the field. It was pretty clearly a call to start killing Republicans. The tolerant Left revealed for what they really are once again.

reply to post by wasco2


It is only a metaphor when it is a person you like that says or uses it. Otherwise it is inciting violence.

Left wing, right wing... I will use a metaphor and say I wish I could clip both the damn wings lmao.

Unfortunately, Obama has refused to rise above the rhetoric from both sides and has chosen to fuel it with his own words on multiple occasions in multiple speeches. The finger pointing at Fox News, Glenn Beck,"tea baggers", calls to battle at the ballot box, etc etc. He has thrown himself right into the mix to stoke the flames of partisan politics at its worst. It would seem that a strong divide along political lines and socioeconomic lines are his goals. Political warfare and class warfare are now the norm partially "nudged" along by our President and his handlers.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by wasco2

 

It is only a metaphor when it is a person you like that says or uses it. Otherwise it is inciting violence.

.

Watch the video, it's easy to find using Google. It doesn't sound like she was joking or speaking metaphorically. Any Republican that said that would have found their career over. Since McCaskill is an Obama lackey and general far left whackadoo the media gave a big collective yawn.

Aww geez, stop already!

For a forum like ATS to become so politically charged with the left-right paradigm is a joke. I know everybody wants to have their say and yes, peace, love and understanding towards their fellow man and all, but pointing fingers at the other side and saying "See, see what they did? Now they need to stop." does nothing to deny ignorance.

I read all 5 pages of posts and all I can say is OP, you do nothing to cool any perceived tensions in this country, While you may have had best intentions, all you did was add fuel to the fire. I live in the USA, I talk to people on a regular basis and I know that many Americans don't agree with Obama or the Democrats agenda. Yes, Americans are mad, yes, they are speaking out, and perhaps, yes, some talk may incite others to do irrational acts but squelching free speech will only incite more hate.

My opinion is Americans have been very peaceful so far. We have put our faith into the voting process. We have called and written letters to our elected officials, we have driven people to voting booths and attempted all peaceful means of reform. I wonder what the title of your post would have been had Americans rioted and thrown Molotov cocktails like the Greek citizens have done.

Look at the bigger picture and realize what is hurtling down the road towards you. Let me spell it out for you, P O L I C E S T A T E. All your "right-wing rhetoric" didn't start until Americans started to wake up and see what Obama and the Democratic party had in store for them. Unfortunately, it isn't only America that the PoliceState is coming to, it is all 4 corners of the globe and your country seems to be the testing grounds.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~John F. Kennedy

Originally posted by guohua
She describes him as "quite liberal" and as a "political radical."

That's from the above link. maybe not good enough for you.

With respect, that's ONE persons interpretation of his politics - it doesn't mean it's true. Most Americans have severe trouble interpreting political direction of others, as the terminology used in America means completely different things to the rest of the world.

A Liberal in the states is most certainly NOT a liberal elsewhere in the world. Please remember you're ALL right of centre when it comes to external viewpoints.

Rev.

reply to post by guohua


So how did guns prevent violent crime in the USA?
en.wikipedia.org...:Ncsucr2.gif

So does the strict gun control in Europe encourage crime.

I like guns. I dislike faulty logic.

but, gabrielle isn't what you could call a left wing radical...she seems to have no problem crossing party lines if it's in the interest of her state. so, just go and kill her, and well, maybe they'll get one of those left wing far out radicals?
she was moderate, the type we all should want in the congress, regardless of our party preferences.

I think the guy has mental problems, I think that many people, including those in the college that he got kicked out, knew that he had problems, and well....they even though he might be a danger.
Does the left/right ramblings add to the instability? ya, probably does, so doesn't banks when they go foreclosing on homes that don't have mortgages and some of the other crap that has been going down.
but, this wasn't an attack on the left, or the right, this was attack on the congress, or just someone that completely lost it.
there was no reason for either side to go after gabrielle, since well, if she didn't vote the way you wanted her to in one way, more than likely if you wait awhile, she will vote the way you want in another issue that is important to ya. she had the best interest of her state in mind, not the best interest of her party....

so, it doesn't make sense.

A Republican Candidate explicitly called for people to assassinate anyone they did not approve of winning an election. The right spent two years crying about needing some blood to water their tree with. You know damn well how proud you have been about talking of violent overthrow and revolution. Well you got it now. Quit acting like a bunch of little girls with all this "Thats not what we meant, you guys said some stuff too" nonsense. You know where you are were with your rattlesnake posters.

reply to post by Sinnthia


You are a fool. No one called for anyone to be shot, sorry if you don't get what a metaphor is.