America: Not A Christian Nation

Originally posted by Endure
I am from the same country as you, and I absolutely defend the right of people to be smug jerks who hate religion equaly with those who have faith. I believe in people being free to say or believe anything they want without persecution, but with consequences.

agreed... I like how my states constitution puts this issue into words.

No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain their opinions in matters of religion,

Article 1, Section 16

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
I have also asked you for your facts which you are not or will not provide... this is a two way street my man.

Read the O.P. and much of the thread.

well let's see your version of fact then... I like Robert G. Lee's opinions, they are steeped in fact

Nope, they're entirely unsupported and incorrect opinion.

Either way, finding a quote from someone who says so is evidence of nothing. You made the claims. Back them up...

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


This post deserves both a star and flag and it should be mandatory reading (or at least the historical content) for every American student. As Moynihan said, " We are entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts."

Originally posted by IAMIAM
I was merely offering my perspective on the OP's assertion that America is NOT a Christian Nation.

I agree with him and offered proof that is rarely considered in these debates by those who think it is.

Nothing more and nothing less my friend.

With Love,

Your Brother

cool... I am myself under the impression of the current presidents statement which is falsified and not "truth" in the OP's opening argument.

I am under the impression that America is no longer "just" a Christian nation, but that is where we were back in the day before the mass exodus of all nations and faiths to the New World.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Read the O.P. and much of the thread.

well I kinda stopped reading when you falsified the word of President Obama early on in your opening... I kinda sorted through the BS in the topic title itself too.

this is where I am at, and much of your Nation is...

even though I did not vote for Obama myself, he makes a good point in his speech with the "where we once were" (a Christian Nation only)

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
cool... I am myself under the impression of the current presidents statement which is falsified and not "truth" in the OP's opening argument.

I am under the impression that America is no longer "just" a Christian nation, but that is where we were back in the day before the mass exodus of all nations and faiths to the New World.

I do not think America ever was a Christian nation. Of course, I do not think most Christians are Christians either. This is not a judgement against them, merely a point of order that they do not follow the teachings in their original form, but rather follow the teachings as they have been distorted.

If Christians followed their teachers wisdom, there would never have been an America.

I suppose it is all part of God's plan, but America is not nor has it ever been built on the foundation of the teachings of Christ.

I have shown Christ's teachings, a small portion of them, and no where in his teachings are the things America did as a young country justified, no where. Furthermore, no where is what America doing today justified. If Christians truly held the majority in America, we would not have a military, oppression, and our systems of iniquity.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


do you need to see the exposure of your lie again... or were you just under the wrong impression or having a misconception ?

"Where we once were, we are no longer just a Christian Nation"

this is "fact" and "truth" (not personal assumptions)

Originally posted by IAMIAM
I do not think America ever was a Christian nation.

I don't believe I was alive in the late 1600's to late 1700's myself either, but I have read my states Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, I am also working on further study of the U.S. Constitution and the ideals which gave rise to it.

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by torqpoc

 

Must I go to that extent just to prove something that should be obvious? I guess I may as well.

en.wikipedia.org...
atheism.about.com...

These statistics are only a few years old and I'm sure they're very similar today. You might be in one of the countries that is largely religious, such as Spain. Need more links?

I live in Spain, and I can assure you that while most children are confirmed as Catholics when young, the people are very secular and the churches are very much empty at mass time. The priest in my pueblo retired nearly a year ago. No new priest, and mass is a very spotty ocurrence. The state religion may be Catholicism, but I would definitely not consider this a Christian nation in comparison to the US where there are churches within eyesight of each other.

Originally posted by IAMIAM
I suppose it is all part of God's plan, but America is not nor has it ever been built on the foundation of the teachings of Christ.

I have shown Christ's teachings, a small portion of them, and no where in his teachings are the things America did as a young country justified, no where. Furthermore, no where is what America doing today justified. If Christians truly held the majority in America, we would not have a military, oppression, and our systems of iniquity.

I suppose if we could time travel and do a consensus of the 2.5 million which inhabited the United States during the year of it's founding (1776) you would have a different opinion.

I admit, I do not make a perfect Christian either... but I do know a little about my country and its ideals and that which we got away from. People are just so blinded by films like Zeitgeist with fancy brainwashing bells and whistles they take it for the truth... not to mention all of the other undermining films and stints out there.

only time will tell your truth, I am willing to wait around to see it all happen again if you are ?

Of course this is not a Christian nation/state! Christians have no claim to any homeland, we are strangers in every land as the kingdom of our inheritance is not of this world.

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
This thread is very debatable

this thread is not debatable because facts and statements made (especially by Obama) have been distorted and twisted into a lie... the topic title itself is a play on the words which Obama spoke in April of 2009.

this topic only exposes the ignorance of a limited minority in which lack of education, undersatnding and reason are the fault.

Originally posted by monkcaw
Of course this is not a Christian nation/state! Christians have no claim to any homeland, we are strangers in every land as the kingdom of our inheritance is not of this world.

I agree... but one of the worst things about this world and having to bide my time in it are commies and communism, that totally brainwashed slaved mentality which refuses to live free and let others enjoy their freedom in their time here.

thanks to ATS I now have a place to voice my own personal opinions and do battle with the minions which wish to undermine everything that is my God given right.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
I suppose if we could time travel and do a consensus of the 2.5 million which inhabited the United States during the year of it's founding (1776) you would have a different opinion.

We do not need to time travel my friend. The proof is in the pudding.

First, men came to this country and took what was not theirs. This is not Christian.
Second, they murdered the inhabitants to acquire what was not theirs. This is not Christian.
Then, they built there own Armies. This is not Christian.
They then fought King, their oppressor. This is not Christian.
After gaining their independence, they continued the slave trade. This is not Christian.
They went after more land that was not theirs, murdered more inhabitants of that land. This is not Christian.

I could keep going my friend. It is not about whether or not they were perfect Christians, they were not even Christians at all, at least not by the teachings I have found within the New Testsament of the KJV Bible I have.

No, America was set up more akin to a Roman city-state which later became its own Empire.

Christ had NOTHING to do with it.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
I admit, I do not make a perfect Christian either... but I do know a little about my country and its ideals and that which we got away from. People are just so blinded by films like Zeitgeist with fancy brainwashing bells and whistles they take it for the truth... not to mention all of the other undermining films and stints out there.

only time will tell your truth, I am willing to wait around to see it all happen again if you are ?

There is a lot of deception in the world right now my friend. I do not say these things to rile your anger. I say them because they are truth, and for us to move forward, we must acknowledge the truth. America could be a country built on Christ's teachings. What an era that would usher in!

First we must learn Christ's teachings. They are not what is so commonly passed off as Christianity today.

As it stands now though, America has committed some of the greatest sins against Mankind. We must be honest and unbiased to heal and move forward.

I do not concern myself with films like zeitgeist, I concern myself with truth and nothing more.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


what would you have to say to the words Obama spoke in his April 2009 speech then ?

"Where we once were, we are no longer "just" a Christian Nation"

indeed the proof is in the pudding... have you researched much the early settlers ?

reply to post by IAMIAM


I like your username my friend...

because indeed to be American is more like saying... ALL AM I, I AM ALL

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

Oh yes, I understand the sentiment completely. So much wickedness, strife and injustice in the world just ignites me.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
what would you have to say to the words Obama spoke in his April 2009 speech then ?

"Where we once were, we are no longer "just" a Christian Nation"

He is a politician my friend and a politicians job is to tell the people what they want to hear, not to tell them the truth.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
indeed the proof is in the pudding... have you researched much the early settlers ?

edit on 1/31/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)

I have not done any in depth study on the early settlers. I know that there were several countries involved in the early settlements. England, France, Spain, and Holland all had a little piece of the pie. There were various reasons why the early settlers came. Some were looking for religious freedom such as the Puritans, who had hoped to establish their own Utopian society based on their understanding of Christs teachings. It did not work out too well for them though. Others were looking for economical opportunities.

The whole settlement project was many things to the settlers. To the Crowns that backed them though, it was all about fattening their coffers.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


here you go, this may help you on your discovery of "facts" about early settlers and also about the chief architect of the Constitution of the united states, James Madison also help quite a bit with the first state constitution drafted for Virginia (which there is a quote from it in my sig) Madison was schooled evangelical but understood very well what giving the power of religious freedom to governing bodies could do (we have been down that road before)

The Continental-Confederation Congress, a legislative body that governed the United States from 1774 to 1789, contained an extraordinary number of deeply religious men. The amount of energy that Congress invested in encouraging the practice of religion in the new nation exceeded that expended by any subsequent American national government. Although the Articles of Confederation did not officially authorize Congress to concern itself with religion, the citizenry did not object to such activities. This lack of objection suggests that both the legislators and the public considered it appropriate for the national government to promote a nondenominational, nonpolemical Christianity. Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of thanksgiving and of "humiliation, fasting, and prayer" were proclaimed by Congress at least twice a year throughout the war. Congress was guided by "covenant theology," a Reformation doctrine especially dear to New England Puritans, which held that God bound himself in an agreement with a nation and its people

mind you this is a government website

Originally posted by IAMIAM
England, France, Spain, and Holland

the nations you mention here happen to all have one thing in common, guess what that is ?

I doubt very seriously the Library of Congress' website can be edited that easily either, or for that matter things omitted like on Wiki.

www.loc.gov...

facts are fact and truths are true...

good day brother... don't let the commies get you !