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America: Not A Christian Nation
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
Have heard and read this argument many times. There are parts and portions of America's laws that include some of the laws that originated in the scriptures, however America's laws are a hodgepodge of human laws handed down through the years from Sumer and Babylon. Better do some research into this before claiming that the constitution is based on primarily bibilical laws. There are numerous writings of the founders of America that prove America was created to be a secular nation, one in which all religions, or 'faiths' were to be allowed. Biblical writings, especially in the New Testament, proclaim that if one is to be a true disciple of Christ they must follow the laws of God and of Christ written in the Old Testament and New Testament respectively. Which version of these scriptures used makes a great deal of difference because those who sought to undermine the teachings of Christ introduced destructive heresy in order to lead as many people away from the Truth as possible, and to a very great degree, they have succeeded!
Have heard and read this argument many times. There are parts and portions of America's laws that include some of the laws that originated in the scriptures, however America's laws are a hodgepodge of human laws handed down through the years from Sumer and Babylon. Better do some research into this before claiming that the constitution is based on primarily bibilical laws. There are numerous writings of the founders of America that prove America was created to be a secular nation, one in which all religions, or 'faiths' were to be allowed. Biblical writings, especially in the New Testament, proclaim that if one is to be a true disciple of Christ they must follow the laws of God and of Christ written in the Old Testament and New Testament respectively. Which version of these scriptures used makes a great deal of difference because those who sought to undermine the teachings of Christ introduced destructive heresy in order to lead as many people away from the Truth as possible, and to a very great degree, they have succeeded!
Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Which christian ideals and how so?
you really do not know how the Nation was founded and which principals guided the early settlers and founding fathers do you ? (I blame a failed public school system)
---
"Some of the framers of the Constitution of the United States of America spoke frequently to the Constitutional Convention, Roger Sherman (138 times) Gouverneur Morris (173 times), James Wilson (168 times), James Madison "the principal author of the Constitution" (161 times): But were many orators to speak now they could express only a meager measure of the greatness of the Bible, the book above and beyond all books, as a river is beyond a rill in reach, as the sun is beyond a lantern in brilliance, as an orchard is beyond a twig in bearing fruit.
The Bible is our greatest national asset, that supreme book, supernatural in origin, divine in authorship, human in penmanship, infallible in authority, inexhaustive in it's adequacy, a miracle book of diversity in unity, infinite in scope, universal in interest, eternal in duration, personal in application, inspired in totality, regenerative in power, inestimable in value, immeasurable in power, unsurpassed in literary beauty, unequaled in simplicity of expression, immortal in its hopes, the masterpiece of God.
A complete code of laws, the Bible has been built into the moral fibre of our nation, but many do not realize this, the Bible has girded us, but multitudes do not know the source of our strength. The whole Constitutional fabric is permeated with it's teachings. The Bible belongs to us politically because its acceptance as the word of God created the people who fought and erected and preserved the nation as the United States of America. Our country is one of the consummate fruits of the Bible. The great principals which underline our government are Bible principals, so distinctly so that our welfare and our destiny are involved in loyalty to them. Without the Bible there could have been no such nation as America, without the Bible America can not exist."
(Robert G. Lee)
edit on 1/31/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by LanMan54
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
Have heard and read this argument many times. There are parts and portions of America's laws that include some of the laws that originated in the scriptures
what argument ? the argument that America is no longer "just" a Christian nation ?
or the Argument that the ideals which founded this Nation are rooted Christian in origin ?
edit on 1/31/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by LanMan54
laws handed down through the years from Sumer and Babylon. Better do some research into this before claiming that the constitution is based on primarily bibilical laws.
I am sorry but I am not understanding you clearly here... are you saying all the multitudes and nationalities of this Nation of mine are Sumerians ?
I believe the Bible and Christianity came afterward... which is possibly an expansion and update to some of the early laws which you speak of, I am totally into the epic of Gilgamesh too, I have no problem with it...
Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
the evidence is all around you...
That is a non-answer. You'll need to support your case with the evidence you claim is all around.
btw I looked up Masonic Egalitarianism and found no such reference of the two words combined... I guess this too is a created word to be used at disposal ?
It was my term to describe many of the principles in the Constitution.
no thanks, I will let you discover this truth for yourself... it's better that way
Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
That is a non-answer. You'll need to support your case with the evidence you claim is all around.
You;ll need to support your case with evidence...
It was my term to describe many of the principles in the Constitution.
do you like the way I slay your words and falsification of the words spoken by Obama on page 3 ?
Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
"A complete code of laws, the Bible has been built into the moral fibre of our nation, but many do not realize this, the Bible has girded us, but multitudes do not know the source of our strength. The whole Constitutional fabric is permeated with it's teachings. The Bible belongs to us politically because its acceptance as the word of God created the people who fought and erected and preserved the nation as the United States of America. Our country is one of the consummate fruits of the Bible. The great principals which underline our government are Bible principals, so distinctly so that our welfare and our destiny are involved in loyalty to them. Without the Bible there could have been no such nation as America, without the Bible America can not exist."
(Robert G. Lee)
Robert G Lee makes some unsupported assertions that remain unbacked by facts. I don't care how enthusiastic you are about the bible, nor whether you were a founder - your statements must have a degree of fact supporting it and in this case there are NO facts referenced to support any of his claims. In fact, there is strong evidence to the exact opposite of his claims. I don't see how he could have written or said this with a straight face.
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
I believe your topic title should be renamed to this...
America is no longer "just" a Christian Nation
subtitled:
but we are also a nation of Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist and non-believers
I believe your topic title should be renamed to this...
America is no longer "just" a Christian Nation
subtitled:
but we are also a nation of Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist and non-believers
edit on 1/31/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason
given)
I find it funny that so many would like to see a world with only atheists. Most religious people I know are pretty cool, and humble. Every atheist I
have ever met is a smug jerk, who think that they are smarter than everyone else and are higher human beings than anyone else. I can only imagine
that a world full of only such people would be a blast.
Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
no thanks, I will let you discover this truth for yourself... it's better that way
Okay. I cannot accept your claims as valid since you have not supported them and evidence exists to the contrary.
You;ll need to support your case with evidence...
Sure I can dig up some of the Masonic principles if you'd like.
do you like the way I slay your words and falsification of the words spoken by Obama on page 3 ?
Actually, you didn't do any such thing. You failed to research where and when he made that exact quote
www.google.com... sider+ourselves+a+Christian+nation+or+a+Jewish+nation+or+a+Muslim+nation.+%22+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a[ editby]edit on 31-1-2011 by traditionaldrummer because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Endure
I find it funny that so many would like to see a world with only atheists. Most religious people I know are pretty cool, and humble. Every atheist I have ever met is a smug jerk, who think that they are smarter than everyone else and are higher human beings than anyone else. I can only imagine that a world full of only such people would be a blast.
Who exactly claimed they wanted to see a world with only atheists?
Also, are you a theist of some kind? Why are you making such smug and condescending remarks about others while simultaneously labeling others as such?
Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Originally posted by Endure
I find it funny that so many would like to see a world with only atheists. Most religious people I know are pretty cool, and humble. Every atheist I have ever met is a smug jerk, who think that they are smarter than everyone else and are higher human beings than anyone else. I can only imagine that a world full of only such people would be a blast.
Who exactly claimed they wanted to see a world with only atheists?
Also, are you a theist of some kind? Why are you making such smug and condescending remarks about others while simultaneously labeling others as such?
Have you read this thread? On page one alone were several calls for the complete abolishment of all religion. I just stated what I have observed from personal experience, and I am sure my personal experience differs from any one elses. That is what makes it a personal experience.
oh there's that word and card again (getting rather lame), where did you learn it ? I am curious. I happen to be supporting my assertions using Mr Lee, thank you very much...
Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Robert G Lee makes some unsupported assertions
oh really ? I believe you are just not educated in the facts.
that remain unbacked by facts.
well me either, I am only stating the obvious... In fact I do not know much about the Bible, but upon further study of the history of the countries origins I found quite obvious truth.
I don't care how enthusiastic you are about the bible,
huh ? what's that mean...
nor whether you were a founder
here we go again the facts are in the founding of this Nation and reflected by the drafting of the Constitution itself. A little lesson in history is all that is needed on your part, and sorry I am not a good teacher so you will have to read for yourself.
your statements must have a degree of fact supporting it and in this case there are NO facts referenced to support any of his claims.
ok lets throw off-topic all the points in which I have decimated your claims, then lets go ahead and post your personal strong evidence...
In fact, there is strong evidence to the exact opposite of his claims. I don't see how he could have written or said this with a straight face.
edit on 1/31/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)
Here is a short list of Christs teachings:
Now considering that America was founded be rebelling against the Authority of the King at the time, stole land repeatedly from the native inhabitants, practiced slavery, oppressed many through the ages, today has the largest prison population in the world, has the most powerful military in the world, has more military bases around the world than any other country, oppresses others that it may grow in strength and comfort, and limits the natural freedoms of its own populace, all of these things being contrary to the teachings of Christ as illustrated above, America is NOT a Christian Nation.
In fact, it would appear to be a nation at odds with Christ's teachings. Yes, I would go so far as to say it is an Anti-Christian Nation.
With Love,
Your Brother
M.5:11-12 When persecutions come simply because you have done what is right in God's sight, rejoice and be extremely happy, for you have a great reward in heaven.
L.6:22-23 One of the happiest moments of a man's life should be when he is hated and abused for Christ's sake.
L.6:24-26 One of the most tragic things that can happen to a man is to have plenty of earthly possessions and be well-liked by all men.
M.5:16 Live such a godly life that people, seeing you do good deeds, will have respect for your Father which is in heaven.
M.5:23-24 Do not come to worship God until you have settled any legitimate grievances against you.
M.5:25-26 Make every effort to be reconciled with those whom you may have wronged, lest they bring their complaint to God. There is no escaping His justice. If you do not make right the wrong you have done to another while you can, God will cause you to reap the very last ounce of grief that your evil deed deserves.
M.5:29-30 Cut off a precious member of the body rather than to allow the whole body to be corrupted and lost. It is better to lose one member of the body, however important, than that the whole body should be destroyed. K.9:43-48
M.5:34-37 Do not make promises, for you may not live to keep them. Simply state your intentions.
M.5:38-39 Never do violent harm to anyone, even in self-defense. To please God, you must be willing to be mistreated.
L.6:29a If someone strikes you, do not resist him. Let him do it again.
L.6:29b-30 If someone unjustly takes your goods away, let him take the rest, not even asking to have them back. Never turn down a request for what you have, regardless of who asks for it.
M.5:40 And if someone sues you for your coat, give him also your shirt.
M.5:41 If you are forced to do a favor, do two favors instead.
M.5:42 Lend to those who want to borrow from you, and give to those who ask for your aid.
M.5:43-48 Be, like your perfect heavenly Father, without fault. Love even your enemies, and do good to everyone, including those who despise you and try to harm you.
L.6:27-28 Always do good to others, even if they do evil toward you.
32-33, 36 Be like this, for your heavenly Father is like this.
M.6:1-18 Do not make a show of your religion, or it will be in vain. There will be no eternal blessing for deeds done to be seen by men. This means, do not make a show of your charity, or your praying, or your fasting. Do these kinds of things in secret, not looking for men either to know about them or to reward you for them, but trusting the Father to know and to reward.
M.6:19-24 Do not hoard up money on earth, but labor to have a heavenly treasure. If you are pursuing money, you are not serving God.
L.6:38 Give to others, and God will see to it that others give to you.
L.6:34-35 And do not be like the unbelievers, who charge interest on their loans, but be like your Father, who freely gives to all.
M.6:25-34 Take time to consider God's care for animals and plants, that you might learn not to be anxious about your essential needs each day. Let your first concern be your need for the righteousness of God, and trust God for the rest. Do not waste a single thought today on the needs of tomorrow. After all, what can you change by thinking about it? L.12:22-31
M.7:1-2 Do not make any judgments, lest you be turned over to the power of the judgments of others. Do not condemn others and you will not be condemned. And if you want forgiveness, you yourself must be forgiving. L.6:37
M.7:3-5 Do not try to correct others until your own blinding faults are gone. Make your own heart right, and then you may be able to render spiritual guidance to others. L.6:42
M.7:6 If you try to minister the things of the Spirit on your own, you will bring the holy things of God into contempt, unnecessarily making enemies in the process.
M.7:7-11 Ask, seek, and knock for the things of God, and they will be given to you.
M.7:12 Treat others the way you would like to be treated. This is what the Law and all the prophets were trying to show you to do. L.6:31
M.7:13-14 There are just a few people who find the way into eternal life. Therefore, choose the narrow way.
M.7:15 Beware of Christian ministers, those who merely think they are God's servants.
Now considering that America was founded be rebelling against the Authority of the King at the time, stole land repeatedly from the native inhabitants, practiced slavery, oppressed many through the ages, today has the largest prison population in the world, has the most powerful military in the world, has more military bases around the world than any other country, oppresses others that it may grow in strength and comfort, and limits the natural freedoms of its own populace, all of these things being contrary to the teachings of Christ as illustrated above, America is NOT a Christian Nation.
In fact, it would appear to be a nation at odds with Christ's teachings. Yes, I would go so far as to say it is an Anti-Christian Nation.
With Love,
Your Brother
edit on 31-1-2011 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
oh really ? I believe you are just not educated in the facts.
that remain unbacked by facts.
Well, I've asked you for them yet you cannot seem to provide them. Quoting someone who makes claims that are unsupported are not facts. In the case of Robert G. Lee, they're called opinions, and untruthful ones as is demonstrated in the OP.
Originally posted by Endure
Have you read this thread? On page one alone were several calls for the complete abolishment of all religion.
that's very interesting because in my country (not knowing where you are from) we give protection to all belief systems and religions, even Atheism...
Abolish all religions sound like some communist manifesto to me, because that does not equal freedom in my opinion.
good post and points
Originally posted by IAMIAM
America is NOT a Christian Nation..
agreed, America is no longer "just" a Christian Nation, but a nation of all religion and beliefs... Christianity is still in majority though among census.
what was your point again ?
that America is not founded on the ideals of the Protestants ? or that America does not follow strict Christian doctrine or even has since the wording of the Constitution ?
it's only 3 question marks...
Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
Originally posted by Endure
Have you read this thread? On page one alone were several calls for the complete abolishment of all religion.
that's very interesting because in my country (not knowing where you are from) we give protection to all belief systems and religions, even Atheism...
Abolish all religions sound like some communist manifesto to me, because that does not equal freedom in my opinion.
good post and points
I am from the same country as you, and I absolutely defend the right of people to be smug jerks who hate religion equaly with those who have faith. I believe in people being free to say or believe anything they want without persecution, but with consequences.
I have also asked you for your facts which you are not or will not provide... this is a two way street my man.
Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
oh really ? I believe you are just not educated in the facts.
that remain unbacked by facts.
Well, I've asked you for them yet you cannot seem to provide them.
well let's see your version of fact then... I like Robert G. Lee's opinions, they are steeped in fact and he is quite the wordsmith, I am sure you have never possibly even heard of him before I mentioned him, he is not taught in our schools or in popular culture. I guess a quick Google search helped you with discovering him though
Quoting someone who makes claims that are unsupported are not facts. In the case of Robert G. Lee, they're called opinions, and untruthful ones as is demonstrated in the OP.
Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
what was your point again ?
that America is not founded on the ideals of the Protestants ? or that America does not follow strict Christian doctrine or even has since the wording of the Constitution ?
it's only 3 question marks...
I was merely offering my perspective on the OP's assertion that America is NOT a Christian Nation.
I agree with him and offered proof that is rarely considered in these debates by those who think it is.
Nothing more and nothing less my friend.
With Love,
Your Brother