The Conspiracy of Being a "Good Person"

What a load of crap. There are many very successful people who are not ruthless and deceitful. This sounds like nothing more then an excuse to justify taking advantage of others for your own gain. There is nothing wrong with working hard to be successful. Many millionaires will often speak of how the key to there success was in helping others and the many failures they had until they discovered that key. Sure there are those who have material success by deceit and ruthlessness but it is fleeting and you will eventually learn that the universe has a way of returning everything you do good or bad back to you. Drug cartel leaders and Mafia are very successful. Are you prepared to do what they have done for their success? That is where the path of selfishness leads eventually. Government is no different then Mafia.

Helping others, having compassion, and treating others as you would like to be treated etc. are virtues and is the real success in this world and beyond. And no I am not saying you can't or shouldn't have material success, because the more material success you have the more you can help others. We are all one big family and helping others is just helping out the family and it will come back to you eventually.

What you describe above will lead to the dark path eventually. In your self justification you conveniently ignore the many materially successful people who are good and compassionate etc. if you just believe they are all just deceptive and lying in that then you are the one who is in illusion.

If an entity has come to you and and given you a choice to join thier brotherhood so to speak then it means you have tasted of the goodness of serving others and are at crossroads. If you make the choice to join them there is no turning back because you have been fully informed. if something like this has not happened to you then ignore this and don''t follow the path of selfishness because it will lead to much suffering of your fellow human family and to you also.

Where your focus is is what you will see. Try an experiment and just focus on looking for the good around you for 2 or 3 weeks instead of the negative. You will be surprised at what you find.

Your problem isn't being a good person.

Your problem is that you have inappropriate boundaries.

reply to post by Shadowflux



Well done for seeing through the BS.

I've actually tried this road. Scheming and lying is a full-time job and takes a lot of energy. It leaves you stressed and makes you paranoid about people finding out about things. It's much easier to simply be nice and learn to say "no" every once in a while.

reply to post by Shadowflux


Don't worry...you won't be confused with any of the people you referenced.
You're mistake would be in assuming that any of them desired personal gain.
They all sought to serve others without personal reward.They were all very successful.
Sometimes,the good get both spiritual rewards And physical rewards...But NEVER by seeking them.

reply to post by Shadowflux


excellent post... i share your sentiment towards this area of thought..

It sure does seem to be a useful tool for those seeking power to rely on the average man to be willing to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone in a perceived position of "Good" intentions or otherwise control over themselves..

peace..

The desire to be a good person does not come from a conspiracy by those who wish to control you. It is an inherent quality of any human who is not a sociopath. Empathy is something that we are all born with, and without it our society would descend into chaos. Indeed, if people cared as much about each other as they do about themselves, we wouldn't have 90% of the problems we have today.

Your philosophy is logically coherent on its face, but when you have been abused and taken advantage of for another persons personal gain, you'll have no right to be upset about it.

In my readings and understanding, in my two favorite religions, Christianity and Buddhism, virtue is not the point. The point in Christianity is to have a great devotion to Jesus. The point in Buddhism is to cultivate a clear, peaceful mind. Virtue is not the point!

Trying to be virtuous is as big a trap (or attachment) to fall in as any other and can lead a person away from understanding.

As far as trying to be a good person and always finishing last. I'm making it, and I'll take my chances. Screw taking advantage of others. This world will not get better by people being more selfish. I know I'm not that good, I don't really do alot of great charity, but i do try to be respectful of others and I don't screw others over to get "ahead." I don't give people a hard time who I easily could, etc.

Really as long as you aren't harming others I think you are a "good person." As long as you have a place to stay and food on the table, you can be happy. Some don't even need that much. So to what end would we be ruthless? Sure it brings some short term temporary comforts, but long term it ruins our ability as people to come together, work together, and truly accomplish things.

Absent goodness, graciousness, loving-kindness and generosity, we're back to survival of the fittest, law of the jungle, or what we once WERE, long ago. It represents, what the OP is suggesting here, a devolution of humanity, a degenerative process, the "fruits" of which are apparent everywhere, but this is not how the world REALLY works, only how a certain satanic system works, and I want no part of it, and it has nothing at all whatsoever to do with who we really are and what we are becoming as highly evolved sentients.

Also, kindness and generosity, these are not just actions, but represent a way of being, a disposition, an internal constitution, which, for those who don't have it yet, can be cultivated through some form of selfless service.

This selfish nonsense, is just pathetic however, and a very low order of being - more neanderthal, than human.

It makes me wonder about the difference between kind hearted people, and those who crave power for power's sake, and why we are in the predicament that we are in, in terms of the whole mess, which I chalk up to an abject failure in love.

I feel bad for you.

You shouldnt live expecting something for yourself. True, you should seek and make goals in life; but even than, theres an ultimate tyruth that isnt hinged on anything in this world. That world is peaceful and true and love. G-d wants us to treat each other with love.

I often stand in wonderment when i see a single mother raising her children by herself. Think about the logic. Why would anyone want to be shackled to years of struggling for someone else.

Or look at the cases where an ill child is born; with retadation or autism. Do you not understand the unbelievable beauty of the selfless devotion of one to another. Its that connection and link that brings us that provides true space for growth - love and peace.

This is the point of life. Not some tangible gain in this world. its great and im all im sure, but when it all ends if you think you understand things people with your attitude suffer intensely after they die. It is not worth the pleasure you'll recieve while alive.

Youre an embarassment and shame to your soul; or if youve sufficiently destroyed your Neshama, your gonna go through something even more painful. To neglect the realities of others when you can and must influence their reality for the better, is irresponsible. Its not a Reponse to a reality. Thats whats needed. To Respond when theres a need. . If you have money - give 10% of it to charitable needs. If you know you should do something morally speaking, do it. Dont gossip, dont do things for personal gain. I would live this way even if i had all the physical things in the world. The only Real wisdom is this. Those who think differently always change their arrogant tune in the end; and if they dont, theyre destroyed completely. And dont think the creator who seeks balance and harmony in creatoin wont punish those who took more than was theirs. You will get measure for measure - Middah K'Neged Middah in Hebrew. G-d does not allow injustice in the spiritual worlds.

The irony of why evil ruthless people in the physical world succeed is because G-d is exacting in all his punishments and rewards. If one is compleyely material focused and he only considers this 'a reward' than he will be rewarded physically. All his good deeds for others (since most people arent completely evil) he will be rewarded on his terms; - in this world. Meanwhile the majority of his actions - his evil, are repressed and await punishment in the next world - the spiritual. Conversely, a good person who lives by his principals, and who acts seflessly and loves others, is bound by a principle greater than his/her own 'personal' wants and needs, and so recieves the majority of his reward in a spiritual context, whereas the evil that theyve done is often requitted in this physical reward. Again - on peoples own terms does G-d reward and punish them. Measure for measure.

That is perfectly logical and its been a tenant of Judaism since the giving of the Torah.

Aulturism is interesting in today's society. It is used by the political elite to manipulate people in shame and guilt. It is used as a excuse to steal from others in forced sharing and "volunteerism" (unpaid labor). Most of the time the "charity" of the elite involves funding the promotion of their ideology and power not to actually help someone in a sane and respectful manner. Charity has become big business for some paying the organization employees more than goes to the subjects of charity. For the elite it is a tax write-off. In short, our society has made charity and the urge to help others into a shake down racket. Reminds me of past scams like religious authorities forcing people to buy credits to heaven.

Personally, I would be unhappy with myself if I did not help those who cross my path who I can help. Sometimes it is not money that is needed but support and coaching when they are down on their luck. I am immune to the societial manipulation that attempts to use this aspect of my heart against me and others. I don't consider the elites' foundations as charity because more often than not they are geared towards undermining the American society to serve the power of the elite rather than making people stronger and happier. It would not bother me if we ended tax loopholes for non-profit foundations. Then we would see the true nature of the elite's "giving."

reply to post by Shadowflux


A very thought-provoking Opening Post which makes one question the belief that "being a good person" is the most important virtue to strive toward. Despite the cynicism of the tone, it is hard to argue with when you look at the reality of the world in which we live. Is our own potential to succeed eroded by prioritising the happiness of others over our own?

Nevertheless, I would caution you to remember that "being a good person" or "doing the right thing" can bring non-material gains which outweigh the satisfactions that come with power and wealth. I personally have found that telling lies and trying to deceive others brings out the worst in me and only gives me temporary satisfaction. Putting aside my pride and trying to effect positive change for others builds character, empathy and wisdom.

It is a plausible theory that TPTB rely on us to get caught in the trap of altruistic principles while ignoring taking part in actions that are good for the prosperity and survival of ourselves and people like us. Just don't forget that to emulate their behaviour and adopt their ideals turns you into something you used to despise.

The replies in this thread are so varied and profound, it makes me humbled to be a part of such a great community. Thank you.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
reply to post by BombDefined

 

I would say that it has always been survival of the ruthless. More over, I might offer the idea that ruthlessness, in many situations, is what makes someone fit enough to succeed and thrive. Lets say we are in a survival situation, we have enough rations to last us and our party through the winter, then we find a few other survivors who have no rations. Should we be "good" and share our rations even though it might mean the death of us and our party or should we be ruthless and leave them and ensure our own survival and the survival of those we are caring for? Sometimes the ruthless are the fittest

Or you could do as the cavemen did, the more successful ones that is, you know the ones that eventually moved on to towns and then cities latter on. And share your meager rations with the other survivors there by increasing your party in not only people, but options for survival in a harsh environment. If you think survival in such a situation is merely sitting around and eating till the snow melts, you would be wrong, and a bit short-sided. Humans unlike bears cant just sleep off a couple of months then wake and go about there business, in fact whenever you place a couple of them in any situation or close enclosed space, problems usually follow. In the situation above that you describe it sounds that you would be better to share your rations and would be better off forming a bigger group to forage and even work with what you find in your area or building shelters and whatnot. Sometimes there is a fine line between between being ruthless, and being plain stupid.

Like that dude IAMIAM who seems to have a large family of brothers and sisters, said in his post, you ain't got no natural insulating fur coat, like wolves which can go to sleep in snow and below freezing weather with no problems, you don't have claws or much strength especially compared to other predators like bears or mountain lions, and you could die from catching a cold, or scraping your knee in such weather, not to mention all other stuff that I can't think of right now, or to lazy to write down. So having a bigger group would work for you better, me thinks. Making and having a larger stronger more efficient, farther reaching in foraging and hunting and protection, and functioning in all weather group, your best asset. Especially compared to the option of sitting around and eating everything till the snow melts, and hoping for a miracle.

These issues pop up because people were misunderstood with normal men. There are like people whom see others as just physical beings, who cross your spiritual border somehow and treat you as dirt. These spiritualbordercrossers may be slapped in the face.

As matter of fact, it mostly occur these people crossing the line and take you for something in a wrong way are women. They always want to show they can do anything they want but they can't, they lack spiritual respect.

Women a' stupid. Crude in all ways.


They go under motto it will always become allright but why the hell do you do wrong, they run away from themselves. That's it! They are constantly running away from themselves. They think they can't handle the truth. Parents get the blame they didn't raise them good. I know I can count on you they say while you don't even know them. They've never been themselves. STEWPIT they are!

I need to post a forlorn song to commemorate a parting of ways, sadly, with my friend and neighbor who may and likely will proceed on the basis of this philisophy, the philosophy of the Godless, of the Materialist Monist Man, the mass-man, the manipulative competitor, in the dog-eat-dog world, who at one time, maybe when we were kids we'd all be friends, but now, we chart diverging paths..oh sigh!

And I am not referring here to a hard game of `black and white` either, not by any means. No this is a choice, put before mankind, a choice every man faces at some point, a choice which shapes him from life to life even, in an endless spiral of increasing misery, or increasing joy and happiness.

All these things are addressed very clearly in all the ancient wisdom literature, in particular the Bhagavad Gita, which I implore the OP to read before committing himself fully to this pâth and way of being.


Or has it come to pass that the good will continue to do good, and the evil, evil (selfishly driven only, if need be at anothers expense)...

Who knows when that line will be drawn.. we cannot know with certainty, but it might not be the best time to head out in that direction, not now, not at this turning point in this generation, lest the time of judgement come when we least expect it, because everywhere I look i see the distinction being drawn, the culmination of karmic law, a harsh judge, it`s prison, secure.
What if liberation was at our door, and on opening it, we then quickly slammed it shut , what then..

reply to post by Shadowflux

I feel that this is a major part of the conspiracy that I've mentioned, there are no absolutes in this world and one can not say that the rich are definitely unhappy and the poor or middle class are. It is true that you will find more happiness in loved ones and true friends than you will in material things alone but why is it that we, as a society, feel that we can not have both?

I think you are the one who is being to black and white here. Very few in our society believe you must sacrifice material wealth to have spiritual or virtuous success so to speak. And most people believe it is possible have both.

You seem to be back peddling now, you said you needed to be ruthless and deceitful to succeed in this world now you tell us you are not advocating purposely harming others. So which is it? Taking advantage of others for your own gain is harming them. So either you are now putting your philosophy of deceit and ruthlessness into action trying to deceive us, or you know in your heart that what you advocate is wrong.

You speak of being honest, I don't think anyone here is under any illusion that people use deceit, ruthlessness, and harm to get gain over others. You however seem to ignore the whole other side of the coin here and that is the many people have built material wealth while being honest and upright and helping others when and where then can. if we are to be brutally honest we must acknowledge this too.

You also keep referring to some societal ideal that we must sacrifice all material wealth to be good people this is more of an abstract religious belief then a societal norm and very black and white.

As for Mother Theresa she was a Nun, you do realize they take a vow of poverty right? So where was her selfish ambition that you speak off? In fact she is a good example of someone very successful and still just seeking to serve others.

if you want to raise your consciousness try practising harmlessness in all you thoughts, words, and actions. This does not mean you cannot defend yourself if attacked however it means to consciously make it a goal to not harm others, this will result in a new enlightenment eventually as you put your attention on it and work at it.

It is not as easy as it sounds though and don't beat yourself up for not being perfect at it just continue a sustained focus on it and eventually the light will get brighter so to speak.

reply to post by Shadowflux


It's hardly a "conspiracy"

Second line.

...so be good, for goodness sake...