What did the Catholic Church ever do to You?

reply to post by nenothtu


Apparently you are an incurable ignorant!
The crusaders went out to kill, murder, slaughter "infidels" and that is totally against the teachings of Jesus!
"Christian" terrorism is what it was!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by nenothtu


You need to learn about history, freund.

How, indeed, will the church of the Greeks, no matter how severely she is beset with afflictions and persecutions, return into ecclesiastical union and to a devotion for the Apostolic See, when she has seen in the Latins only an example of perdition and the works of darkness, so that she now, and with reason, detests the Latins more than dogs? As for those who were supposed to be seeking the ends of Jesus Christ, not their own ends, who made their swords, which they were supposed to use against the pagans, drip with Christian blood, they have spared neither religion, nor age, nor sex. They have committed incest, adultery, and fornication before the eyes of men. They have exposed both matrons and virgins, even those dedicated to God, to the sordid lusts of boys. Not satisfied with breaking open the imperial treasury and plundering the goods of princes and lesser men, they also laid their hands on the treasures of the churches and, what is more serious, on their very possessions. They have even ripped silver plates from the altars and have hacked them to pieces among themselves. They violated the holy places and have carried off crosses and relics.[27]

I cant really single out the Catholics but I can single out the entire Abrhamic faith. You taught me that I have to earn love and that Gods love is conditional only if I act right and do what is said. Its not about who I am but what I do. So now I am always in a state of pass or fail whether its on a conscious or subconscious level.

Constantly trapped in a bait and switch game of double meanings.

You either have a relation with God out of fear of what might happen if you dont or you hate this God and ignore or deny it.
I even see the bait and switch double meaning game in Alcoholics Anonymous where you can even create a God Higher Power that makes sense to you only to find out later in your recovery that it is still the pass or fail good works God.


Of course I dont make sense much of the time and sound mentally ill. Im having a normal response to an abnormal world.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Rosha, The eighth commandment is "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor", not 'you shall not steal'
that would be the seventh.

In that case you broke that commandment when you claimed that 99% of the ATS members hate the Catholic church.... goes both ways buddy.

Originally posted by memyself
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Apparently you are an incurable ignorant!

Yes, "apparently". I've been called worse - you'll have to do better than that.

The crusaders went out to kill, murder, slaughter "infidels" and that is totally against the teachings of Jesus!
"Christian" terrorism is what it was!!!!!!!!!

I dunno, man. Can you elaborate on just how a nebulous statement such as that, without even a hint of a source, addresses my statement that "we" couldn't teach "them" a damned thing when it comes to brutality in warfare? I at least gave some leads to be followed up on to verify my contention - but I note the absence of such in this post.

I'm not in the habit of writing policy for the "divine", so I can't really address your contention about "the teachings of Jesus" other than to say that it appears you have no problem with picking and choosing, embracing one sort of teaching and ignoring another. Let me guess - you're of the school that espouses all this "light and love" nonsense, and ignores all the rest? Even Jesus appears to have held some things worth fighting for - but we can ignore those bits, now can't we?

Yet I'm the "incurable ignoramus".

Sweet.

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by nenothtu

 

You need to learn about history, freund.

Yes, I suppose so. I'll not be learning anything that defies my contention that "we" had nothing to teach "them" at all concerning battlefield brutality from that link, though. I hope that's not the best you have.

How, indeed, will the church of the Greeks, no matter how severely she is beset with afflictions and persecutions, return into ecclesiastical union and to a devotion for the Apostolic See, when she has seen in the Latins only an example of perdition and the works of darkness, so that she now, and with reason, detests the Latins more than dogs? As for those who were supposed to be seeking the ends of Jesus Christ, not their own ends, who made their swords, which they were supposed to use against the pagans, drip with Christian blood, they have spared neither religion, nor age, nor sex. They have committed incest, adultery, and fornication before the eyes of men. They have exposed both matrons and virgins, even those dedicated to God, to the sordid lusts of boys. Not satisfied with breaking open the imperial treasury and plundering the goods of princes and lesser men, they also laid their hands on the treasures of the churches and, what is more serious, on their very possessions. They have even ripped silver plates from the altars and have hacked them to pieces among themselves. They violated the holy places and have carried off crosses and relics.[27]

Again, I'm just not seeing how that quote you specifically singled out bears on what sort of brutality you think the Crusaders were able to "teach" the Saracens. Are you saying that the Muslims were incapable of that sort of activity before "we" taught it to "them"? If you are, then clearly you failed to research the battles I listed.

Sure, the Catholics are a pretty brutal bunch, but they in no way schooled the "innocent Saracens" in the fine art of brutality, as was held in the original statement.

I found the following pretty instructive, from your own link:

Outcome

Almost none of the crusaders ever made it to the Holy Land, and the unstable Latin Empire siphoned off much of Europe's crusading energy. The legacy of the Fourth Crusade was the deep sense of betrayal the Latins had instilled in their Greek coreligionists. With the events of 1204, the schism between the Church in the West and East was not just complete but also solidified.

Just which part of that page do you contend supports the odd notion that the Middle east was all sweetness and light before the Evil Crusaders went in and taught them how to be brutally violent?




Did you even bother READING your own link before you told ME to go there and educate myself?

reply to post by nenothtu


Pardon me, I originally intended to post this excerpt but distracted myself.

The prominent medievalist Steven Runciman, writing in 1954, stated that "There was never a greater crime against humanity than the Fourth Crusade."

I had intended to show the excessive brutality of the Catholics in the 4th Crusade, compared to the conduct of their Muslim enemies. I don't know if the Catholics were always crueler than the Muslim armies. I do recall that the early Muslims were described by Byzantine sources as ruining and murdering basically everybody that opposed them in Syria when they conquered that province in the 7th century.

I think that we can all agree that both sides were very nasty and that they still learned lessons in brutality from the Mongols and their ilk.

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
OliveOil... ( second time lucky )

Here is a simple question. Dare to answer it .

If you were shown enough evidence to clearly show the Catholic Church had a formal policy of protecting child molesters. Will you publically renounce them, or would you continue supporting them anyway ?

If you choose to ignore this question like so many others, I will repost it again and again until you either shut up or front up.


Time to show your true faith.

I believe that they do not have a formal policy to protect child molesters.(no one here is able to produce any documents to prove otherwise)However, if some reason a papal bull was issued concerning this issue, I would still support that Catholic Church. Reason being is that We are to follow Jesus' advice. To forgive. (if the person is truly sorry) Only God reserves the right to judge.

reply to post by oliveoil


So, if there was a papal bull announcing that the Church was going to protect pedophiles as a matter of course, your response would be "Oh, I forgive you *worships at Catholic church, sends children to Catholic school*"

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap


Yes

reply to post by oliveoil


[head explodes]

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap


Question : Are you so (end all be all) That you seriously think that justice begins and ends with you? You would not forgive someone who is truly sorry? Let me guess you would rather see a fellow human being receive the same fate they endured. Your sick!!

This is a joke, right? I mean, it's had me laughing for the last 15 minutes.

What 'beef' do people have with perhaps the most evil entity that has ever existed on the planet?

Talk about trolling a message board... Bwaaaaahahahahaha...

Watching a show called "Punishment" right now. It details the history of crimes, penalties and forced confessions thru torture. Guess who was judge, jury, and executioner either directly, or thru proxy... You guessed it.

(and much of this ended only recently in the 19th century. The catholic church is responsible for the dark ages, fake 'god(s)' and flat worlds. It has offered nothing to humanity but domination out of fear and suppression)

Next dumb question...



Oh, and by the way... 31 pages(!) and 7 days later... ... just 23 flags (probably out of morbid curiosity to keep watching where that trainwreck of a question ends)... and, even fewer stars, less than HALF to be exact (11) - the public has spoken: you are a troll.

reply to post by oliveoil


The scenario was not the Pope saying "I am terribly sorry for what has happened," as if that is the same thing as each and every individual culprit expressing genuine sorrow.

The scenario was the Pope issuing a bull that says "We are going to protect pedophiles and allow them to continue raping children." To this your response was "Oh, go ahead. I forgive you, you unrepentant sinners running the one true Church, which systematically performs and protects child rape."

Do you not understand how this boggles the mind?

Originally posted by oliveoil
I believe that they do not have a formal policy to protect child molesters.(no one here is able to produce any documents to prove otherwise)However, if some reason a papal bull was issued concerning this issue, I would still support that Catholic Church. Reason being is that We are to follow Jesus' advice. To forgive. (if the person is truly sorry) Only God reserves the right to judge.

If a priest raped and murdered your partner then molested your child and the church released a policy to protect priests who rape, murder and molest, you would forgive them?
Sorry, it's abit pedantic... but I'd be interested to know what you would do.
While I'm being silly... would you forgive Hitler for what he did if he was reeeeallly reallllly sowwwwwwi? lol

Also I agree with SmedleyBurlap. The point was protection through the Church... not whether or not the individual was sorry for his/her crime.
For example if a priest raped a child and was protect through this policy but in his head he didn't give a heck then what would you think?

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Pardon me, I originally intended to post this excerpt but distracted myself.

The prominent medievalist Steven Runciman, writing in 1954, stated that "There was never a greater crime against humanity than the Fourth Crusade."

I had intended to show the excessive brutality of the Catholics in the 4th Crusade, compared to the conduct of their Muslim enemies. I don't know if the Catholics were always crueler than the Muslim armies. I do recall that the early Muslims were described by Byzantine sources as ruining and murdering basically everybody that opposed them in Syria when they conquered that province in the 7th century.

Point taken. One could initially suspect the motives of the Byzantines, considering they were on the receiving end, but then one finds that the history and allegations are borne out by everyone else that the Islamic Armies came into contact with. That considerably strengthens the case, and taking into consideration the Muslim's OWN sources recounting the early battles and conquests, it's pretty much a cinch. Elimination of all opposition was pretty much the order of the day.

I think that we can all agree that both sides were very nasty and that they still learned lessons in brutality from the Mongols and their ilk.

Yessir, that IS something we can agree upon. The Mongol conquest of Islamic Baghdad is a case in point.

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Pardon me, I originally intended to post this excerpt but distracted myself.

The prominent medievalist Steven Runciman, writing in 1954, stated that "There was never a greater crime against humanity than the Fourth Crusade."

I had intended to show the excessive brutality of the Catholics in the 4th Crusade, compared to the conduct of their Muslim enemies. I don't know if the Catholics were always crueler than the Muslim armies. I do recall that the early Muslims were described by Byzantine sources as ruining and murdering basically everybody that opposed them in Syria when they conquered that province in the 7th century.
I think that we can all agree that both sides were very nasty and that they still learned lessons in brutality from the Mongols and their ilk.

And here class we see a classic diversionary technique employed by those who, rather than admit
they were wrong, choose to pull up a third party or subject and make that out to be the greater evil...
"Mongols and their ilk" in this post.
This is standard behavior of those totally constrained between their rigid blinders incapable of EVER
seeing beyond them!!

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by SmedleyBurlap

 

Question : Are you so (end all be all) That you seriously think that justice begins and ends with you? You would not forgive someone who is truly sorry? Let me guess you would rather see a fellow human being receive the same fate they endured. Your sick!!

Forgiveness is SOUGHT. Forgiveness is EARNED.

Take my families documents out of the holding pen, and let me have them. PROVE you care about the truth.

I dare you to live up to your own beliefs.

reply to post by nenothtu


Here is a page for you to learn from:
mars.wnec.edu...

I remember a story but cannot now give a reference for it:
Once during the crusades a peaceful Muslim ruler somewhere in the Palestinian land invited Crusaders to negotiations in his residence. They came, but with swords hidden under their robes, and as soon as they were inside and the gates had closed behind them, they took the swords out and began killing everyone. At the end, none of them had survived and the blood was at such a high level in the yard that the Crusaders had to wade through it.

AND SUCH PEOPLE CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS????

Didn't Jesus say:
"Who takes to the sword will be undone by the sword"
"Love your enemies"

reply to post by oliveoil


It has been published repeatedly in the media and in documentaries that:
1. The pope (I believe the present one) has issued a decree that cases of child molestation should not be reported to the police, but only to the Vatican. And what does the Vatican do?
2. Priests (and other Church officials) who abuse children are in most cases merely moved to another location (sometimes in another country), where they are "safe" and can even continue doing what they did.
3. When a woman becomes pregnant from a priest (who in that case had a natural and consentual affair ...), the Church secretly pays alimonies to her for up to (I believe) three children, provided that the priest doesn't confess to the affair (i.e., denies it, so that it will not too easily become public) and the woman keeps quiet about it.

But I presume that those Catholics who believe that they are Christians don't read such reports or see such documentaries, or that they blatantly deny them... the truth is too disturbing for them...