What did the Catholic Church ever do to You?

Originally posted by memyself

Didn't Jesus say:
"Who takes to the sword will be undone by the sword"
"Love your enemies"

Yes, he did. He also said something along the lines of "now is the time for he who has a cloak to sell it, and buy a sword". I believe it must have been the lack of a sword handy that caused him to use a knotted rope to beat hell out of the money changers desecrating what he considered to be holy ground.

Peaceful guy. At least he knew when peace was called for, and when it's not.

He probably was acquainted with the passage in Ecclesiastes that says "there is a time for peace, and a time for war. A time for every purpose under heaven".

I'm guessing he knew his scripture backwards and forwards - something that can't be said of many "Christians" of today who claim to emulate him.

reply to post by oliveoil


If you do a little history research, you will find that the English bible is the only bible that uses the word "church". The word church comes from Circe or circle of the sun. Circe was a sun god, This is why "Sunday" is the day of worship for the catholic church. The catholic church is rooted in sun worship. The catholic church also admits to changing the sabbath from Sat. to Sunday (the venerable day of the sun). I hate to be the bearer of bad news but "Jesus" didn't start the roman catholic church. The word church in the bible replaced the proper phrase "called out assembly". If you think Jesus (a non existent name for the messiah: the letter j is only 400 yrs old) started the "church" and embraces an entity that is opposed directly to everything the true messiah is in favor of then you need to research your history a little better and find out if Dec. 25 is Jesus birthday. The Catholic Church is the same entity which financed Hitler and aided in his project to exterminate the jews. If you dig further beneath the veneer of lies, you will find also that one of the symbols affiliated with the Catholic Church is none other than the Islamic star and crescent. The scriptures speak of a false system of worship and they are many. But RC sits at the top of the beast. Roman Catholic, Christian, no difference. They all celebrate festivals that our Creator does not approve of or endorse and never has. Read Jeremiah 10:3 and see how our Creator feels about X-mas. I hope this provokes someone to research the lies we have been spoon fed for generation after generation. I believe it was Hitler who said, " If you tell the people a lie long enough, they will not accept the truth when it is told to them." We have been sold a bill of goods, franken food, fake money, replacement theology, false festivals, false medical system, kangaroo courts and a prison system for $$$$$, a drug war designed to finance black projects, and the list goes on and on.

reply to post by nenothtu


Here we have examples of Bible quotations taken out of their contexts.

Luk 22:35 “And he said unto them, ‘When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing?’ And they said, ‘Nothing.’”
This means that the disciples and real followers of Him needed no purse and no scrip and one can assume that the disciples didn’t have any even at this time.

22:36 “Then said he unto them, ‘But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.’”
Those who did have purse and scrip, therefore, were not his disciples but probably of those who where against Him.

22:37 “For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.”
And of those who were against him and prepared to end His life, which Jesus understood as a fulfillment of his fate.

So what did he really say? “Those who are against me, let them get a sword if they don’t have any, and do what they think that they have to do.”

Later on disciples brought him two swords and He said: “That is enough!” Apparently they didn’t properly understand His words, but took him literally. Then one disciple (or at least one of those who were with him) attacked a servant of the high priest and cut his ear off, but Jesus stopped this and heal the servant’s ear and thus made it undone.

To beat the money changers is not killing them. And that there is a time for peace and a time for war doesn’t mean that Christians should start wars!

Originally posted by memyself

22:36 “Then said he unto them, ‘But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.’”
Those who did have purse and scrip, therefore, were not his disciples but probably of those who where against Him.

22:37 “For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.”
And of those who were against him and prepared to end His life, which Jesus understood as a fulfillment of his fate.

So what did he really say? “Those who are against me, let them get a sword if they don’t have any, and do what they think that they have to do.”

No, he REALLY said: "But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

I'm not big on putting unsaid words into the mouths of others, but you are free to "interpret" as you like. That would be between you and he, on the Judgement Day.

Later on disciples brought him two swords and He said: “That is enough!” Apparently they didn’t properly understand His words, but took him literally.

Or maybe he actually meant what he said, and that was enough? What a novel idea, a religious leader actually meaning what he says!

Then one disciple (or at least one of those who were with him) attacked a servant of the high priest and cut his ear off, but Jesus stopped this and heal the servant’s ear and thus made it undone.

Imagine that! Jesus having compassion on a man doing a distasteful job that had to be done! Bet you won't find that kind of compassion in this day and age!

I wonder if he'd have done the same if it was the high priest, who gave the order, rather than a lackey? I reckon we'll never know.

To beat the money changers is not killing them.

Nope. It's the most peaceful thing I can imagine. I beat folks with knotted ropes twice a day, before breakfast. It relaxes them!

And that there is a time for peace and a time for war doesn’t mean that Christians should start wars!

I'll go back through the thread and see if I can find where I said that Christians should start wars. You could be a big help if you could point that post out.

I don't think they ought to have any trouble ending wars, though - by the most satisfactory means possible.

reply to post by nenothtu


It seems that you missed my point!
His disciples and those near him didn’t need a purse nor a scrip, and they agreed. So they will not have hand any. So He didn’t tell them to get a sword.

So who had a purse and/or a scrip? Then it will rather have been those distant from him or against him.
He ironically said that they should "sell their shirt" get a sword to do what they wanted to do, since He accepted His fate.

To beat scoundrels out once or to beat someone every day is a huge difference… the latter might, however, relax you…

As concerns starting wars it is what crusaders did in many cases. That was another point…

Originally posted by memyself
reply to post by nenothtu

 

It seems that you missed my point!

I didn't miss your point, I addressed it. He said what he said, and you for some reason feel a need to "interpret" it, and embellish it with things that are not there. As I said, believe as you will. It's not my problem, it will be between you and those you've put words into the mouths of come the Judgment Day.

reply to post by nenothtu


Now you are interpreting and twisting the point. Please try to see the real situation:
Luk 22:35: indicates that the disciples and near followers (with few exceptions) had no purse (since they didn’t need one and did well without it).

Luk 22:36 is clearly addressed to those who have a purse. Hence not to these disciples and near followers!
To whom then? Who is then more likely to have a purse? Those who were against Him! Such as, a.o., the money changers with fat purses…

So He told them in His usual indirect way (like in many of his parables): If you want to kill me, do it! It is your problem. I accept my fate. (In some ways you seem to speak like one of these...)

This is called logic, being something many don’t want to permit in understanding Bible verses…

At one time my feeling and ideas about this were so very different.
First do not ever expect to come to solution when you live under this idea.

That the crimes of a individual should have guilt or punishment shared with a group.
That you get to draw the circle around.

If you follow this line of thinking see where it will lead. Been there done that.

The real questions I have are.

Should the Catholic Church continue under the current rules and privileges be a subject of public debate?
Should people bear the responsibility of their crimes alone?
Could I receive forgiveness from the Catholic Church for my sins against them?

When someone posts an emotional response see it for what it is. But please share your ideas and questions for public debate.

reply to post by Ubeen


„That the crimes of a individual should have guilt or punishment shared with a group.”
This is, of course, very different from one case to another and cannot be generalized!
If the group encourages individuals for crimes and/or protects them when it happened, the group makes itself co-responsible. This is, of course, not always the case, but it is in quite a few of them!
The Church does have a co-responsibility for child abuse, e.g., when it protects the abuser.
Church and society at that time had co-responsibilities for what was done in the cru(el)sades.

“Should the Catholic Church continue under the current rules and privileges be a subject of public debate? “ Yes! It needs public debate!
“Should people bear the responsibility of their crimes alone?“ See above!
“Could I receive forgiveness from the Catholic Church for my sins against them?” That is a problem between it and you and may not matter very much. Can you forgive the Church for what it has done? Isn’t it much more important to be forgiven by God than the Church (that can never do it for Him!). And by your victims!

What is a sin against the Church in your opinion?

For one to have the right answer, one must first ask the right question which, in this case, should have been "What did the catholic church ever did FOR me?"

made me go to catechism every wednesday until i turned 16. lol

'What has the catholic church ever do to you?'

Nothing to me personally, yet but 'Elements of Essential Laws vol1.53-54', 'Papal Bulls 1453 & 1493' and 'treaty of 1219' among many other that run around the church and it' new world order agenda threatens your way of life if your support the 95 thesis by Martin Luther I suppose. Masons built the scary demon temples or 'catholic temples' and crusaded just like nazis. Why was shroud(sp?) of Jesus really Francis DeMolay? ...The Jesuits? Pope dies on 33rd day? Black pope?

Martin Luther was a good catholic, after he wrote 95 Thesis.

Originally posted by movealong
'What has the catholic church ever do to you?'

Nothing to me personally

indeed.

how about to millions of people during centuries?

God Himself gave a Law that the Catholic church simlpy decides to change it, like
2. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image...Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them..."
these images can be found in a catholic church close to you, where everyone will bow down to and serve them

4. "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy"
oh, how about changing it to sunday? He ressurrected on sunday, making it even easier...?
well on first place, he said the baptism would be a symbol of His death and Ressurection on Him, is this abolished too? oh yeah, the baptism was changed by this church too, almost forgot...

We could go on and on about things this church has changed even different paths and ways to get to God (saints, Indulgences, etc.) things that Jesus himself or the Father never instituted
and now you have ball to say Jesus himself founded it?

This church has lied to their members and to the rest of the world for so long, saying also that the Pope is the substitute of Christ and such things that you really don't need 32 pages of posts to clearly see this:

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
For one to have the right answer, one must first ask the right question which, in this case, should have been "What did the catholic church ever did FOR me?"

really. they blinded their members for so long that now they just won't see it

Originally posted by thirdeyeaware
Understandable that you may be angry.
But the church as a whole has done more harm then good.
Crusades?
Witch hunts?
Anti-gay views?
How bout the altar-boy molestations?
Personally i dislike them as much as any other religious group, due to the fact that they are basicly selling lies.
At best, its a well-funded cult that tricks people in believing their propaganda on how to act, what to think, what is moral and what is not. (ie. Believe in what I tell you, or BURN forever)

And really, depending on where you were born, your religious views whould be different. Can't argue with that.

edit on 27-12-2010 by thirdeyeaware because: Typo

edit on 27-12-2010 by thirdeyeaware because: added a few points

Your forgetting the 2-3 million Gnostic Christians the Church of Rome had executed in order to cement the power of Catholicism.

P.S Witch burnings don't really count. Most legitimate data paint it as a "woman on woman" crime(women of that era used it as a way to get rid of rivals, the vast majority of accusers and victims where women. And men where rarely accusers and rarely victims of the witch-hunts).

++++++++++++++++++++++ UPDATE / RELATED +++++++++++++++++

Vatican says its Irish abuse letter misunderstood

And victims groups say it's a "smoking gun" that shows that the church enforced a worldwide culture of concealing crimes by pedophile priests of which Rome bears ultimate — and legal — responsibility.

SOURCE

Not stoking the fire, but rather updating the facts.

reply to post by kinda kurious


Could you update your link? It came up a 404 and provided other search results.

found one news.yahoo.com...

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

Could you update your link? It came up a 404 and provided other search results.

found one news.yahoo.com...

edit on 19-1-2011 by searching4truth because: to add link

Sorry, couldn't edit. Odd since it has only been 2.5 hours.

Thanks for providing correct one. Ooooppppssss.

reply to post by oliveoil


I guess it taught me to feel guilty about things that other non-catholics would not feel guilty about (for example, thinking about doing something wrong is just as bad as actually having done it).

But on the other hand I became quite close with god because of the catholic church's teachings. While today I am more a christian than I am a catholic, I can attribute my closeness with GOD to my catholic church's teachings...

but that guilt is sometimes hard to shake....even after years...lol

A comment to all "THE KINGDOM OF GOD/CREATOR IS WITHIN YOU" amen
You could take this to mean not in a building, chapel, church or temple,as the temple is You.sanctify you ,and be holy in yourself, to know oneself is to know God/the creator if you do not know yourself you do not know god/the creator and if you don`t like yourself then you are already closer to god /the creator..as knowing everything means there is no reason to be.

I like Christian's and I do believe some of the stuff they believe but when they act like they've done nothing wrong , it annoys me.


Why do I not like the church? Because they told me I was going to burn in hell. Seriously some advice for all the Christian's and Muslims out there , if you want to recruit people and make friends. You probably shouldn't tell them they're going to burn in hell as soon as you meet them.

Infact you might never want to tell them that your god hates them and that he's going to strike them down.



That's just not a really good way to make friends with anybody.