What did the Catholic Church ever do to You?

reply to post by EricD


I apologize for sounding so harsh I have to learn to how to be more apologetic and less impetuous towered others. I don't have time right this second to get the information you requested but I promise I will PM you the info later ( or post in this thread) if you are interested.

reply to post by oliveoil


I believe that there is no sin.

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

Actually sinnthia,it is proven that it is beneficial to ones existence to believe in a higher power.

Seeing as how it has proven that it is beneficial to believe in any higher power, what does that say about your god vs my god? Because what you are talking about it is the fact that my delusion and your delusion will bennefit us, even though it is NOT THE SAME delusion. So how does that make you feel about your god?

BTW, what you said does not invalidate what I said. A delusion is a delusion whether it helps or not. Calling it sane is just lying.

Originally posted by thirdeyeaware
reply to post by MrWendal

 

Is this what the religious people resort to when they hit a wall by someone stating the obvious?
If so, i think you just blew my mind. Makes alota sense

edit on 28-12-2010 by thirdeyeaware because: typoo

Yes, this is a very common tactic and is nothing more than spin. It is a circular argument forced to put someone on the defensive while deflecting away from the actual point of the debate. Sadly it usually works well, until you put it into a context that everyone can understand. Then it seems just like what it is... silly. An absolutely silly argument by any standards.

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by thirdeyeaware

 

Actually, to have a belief in a God is the most sane thing a human can do. It gives us hope, peace, and a sense of being.Without god everything is meaningless.

Sorry but respectfully I disagree. That is much the same as saying that having a belief in Santa Clause is the most sane thing I can do as a person because Santa gives me hope, peace, and a sense of being. I personally do not care what people believe. If having faith in a jar full of milk makes you a better person, than so be it. Worship your jar of milk and be happy, but don't tell me that I am worthless, that I will burn in hell, or that I should believe in your jar of milk. I should be free from having to hear your milk propaganda and be able to live my life with hope, peace and a sense of being without your jar of milk.

reply to post by oliveoil




This is like asking: What did cancer ever do to you!?

Well cancer has never affected me personally but it does effect and hurt a great deal of people. The same could be said of the Catholic Church. While I am not directly personally affected by the Catholic Church I know there are people that are. Even if there wasn't so much molestation going on I'd still be against it because the minds of children would still be being corrupted. Teaching kids that we're all sinners deserving of Hell, or that you have to devour someone's flesh and be washed in his blood to be saved

One doesn't have to be directly damaged by something bad to know its bad and speak out about it.

Originally posted by nenothtu
I'm honestly curious here. What is it that you think makes up "the church as a whole"? Is it not all the individual parts that comprise it, just as a body is made up of it's individual members? I only ask because I've seen you repeatedly try to shoot down specific examples of gripes by saying, in effect "those are just specific examples of gripes".

What are you looking for then? More generalized example of gripes?

edit on 2010/12/28 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

The Catholic Church has a well defined heiarchy with an INFALLABLE man at the top. Yep, they say that what the pope says is gold and then orders come down. The church is a well organized and well defined corporation. Maybe you mean the Christian Church? That is something much more vague. There is clearly a Catholic Church as a whole with rules, orders, and a chain o' command.

Making the pope's words gospel is probably the worst thing the Catholic Church did to a religion about flawed humans.

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

atheism is a system based in "belief" (if one believes in it that is their 'faith' in it) it is the deism of self and the most arrogant and ignorant of beliefs.

No, I'm sorry but you are extremely wrong. It has nothing to do with deism at all...

de·ism
   /ˈdiɪzəm/ Show Spelled[dee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
belief in the existence of a god on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation ( distinguished from theism).
2.
belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.

Still wondering about how that log in your eye is coming along, though...

You keep pointing out how people are ignorant and arrogant...

...yet here you are denying hard facts and touting your biased opinion as the only truth because you are right...

reply to post by nenothtu


Bro, The Catholic Church is against (then and now) everything it disapproves.Your bringing up arbitrary instances though out history. This is not the Catholic Church as a whole. The whole of something is all its parts.

reply to post by MrWendal


Ya! I prayed and prayed last night and got exactly what I asked for . Thank you so much for this video It is exactly what I needed to grow in Faith in Jesus! Looks like I have some more reading to do. I will get back to this post when I have time to look at this video and find out what verses they are talking about. I have a feeling that these are nothing more than verses taken out of context.
God bless!



Here you go MrWendal read away no contradiction here. Like I said anyone can take a verses out of the bible and make it appear to conflict with another. Here is the kicker... You have to actually read/comprehend the chapter/book in order to understand the context of a passage. By all means ask questions and I will answer to the best of my ability but please don't grab some random nonsense and claim it as truth when you know not of what you speak about. People like you irritate me.

Purpose of Writing: The message of the Book of Micah is a complex mixture of judgment and hope. On the one hand, the prophecies announce judgment upon Israel for social evils, corrupt leadership and idolatry. This judgment was expected to culminate in the destruction of Samaria and Jerusalem. On the other hand, the book proclaims not merely the restoration of the nation, but the transformation and exaltation of Israel and Jerusalem. The messages of hope and doom are not necessarily contradictory, however, since restoration and transformation take place only after judgment.

Micah 7:18-19, "Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of His inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy. You will again have compassion on us; you will tread our sins underfoot and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea."

Brief Summary: The prophet condemns the rulers, priests, and prophets of Israel who exploit and mislead the people. It is because of their deeds that Jerusalem will be destroyed. The prophet Micah proclaims the deliverance of the people who will go from Jerusalem to Babylon and concludes with an exhortation for Jerusalem to destroy the nations who have gathered against her. The ideal ruler would come from Bethlehem to defend the nation, and the prophet proclaims the triumph of the remnant of Jacob and foresees a day when Yahweh will purge the nation of idolatry and reliance on military might. The prophet sets forth a powerful and concise summary of Yahweh's requirement for justice and loyalty and announces judgment upon those who have followed the ways of Omri and Ahab. The book closes with a prophetic liturgy comprising elements of a lament. Israel confesses its sin and is assured of deliverance through Yahweh's mighty acts.


Purpose of Writing: The Book of Jeremiah records the final prophecies to Judah, warning of oncoming destruction if the nation does not repent. Jeremiah calls out for the nation to turn back to God. At the same time, Jeremiah recognizes the inevitability of Judah’s destruction due to its unrepentant idolatry and immorality

Jeremiah 17
1 “Judah’s sin is engraved with an iron tool, inscribed with a flint point, on the tablets of their hearts and on the horns of their altars.
2 Even their children remember their altars and Asherah poles[a] beside the spreading trees and on the high hills.
3 My mountain in the land and your wealth and all your treasures will give away as plunder, together with your high places,
because of sin throughout your country.
4 Through your own fault you will lose the inheritance I gave you. I will enslave you to your enemies in a land you do not know, for you have kindled my anger, and it will burn forever.”
5 This is what the LORD says:
“Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD. 6 That person will be like a bush in the wastelands; they will not see prosperity when it comes. They will dwell in the parched places of the desert,
in a salt land where no one lives.


Brief Summary: The Book of Jeremiah is primarily a message of judgment on Judah for rampant idolatry (Jeremiah 7:30-34; 16:10-13; 22:9; 32:29; 44:2-3). After the death of King Josiah, the last righteous king, the nation of Judah had almost completely abandoned God and His commandments. Jeremiah compares Judah to a prostitute (Jeremiah 2:20; 3:1-3). God had promised that He would judge idolatry most severely (Leviticus 26:31-33; Deuteronomy 28:49-68), and Jeremiah was warning Judah that God’s judgment was at hand. God had delivered Judah from destruction on countless occasions, but His mercy was at its end. Jeremiah records King Nebuchadnezzar conquering Judah and making it subject to him (Jeremiah 24:1). After further rebellion, God brought Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonian armies back to destroy and desolate Judah and Jerusalem (Jeremiah chapter 52). Even in this most severe judgment, God promises the restoration of Judah back into the land God has given them (Jeremiah 29:10).

edit on 28-12-2010 by Evil3unnie because: (Trying to fix bold letters )

edit on 28-12-2010 by Evil3unnie because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by wcitizen

 

I could go down the list to rebuttal Heffs post however, I feel that would be off topic.

edit on 28-12-2010 by oliveoil because: (no reason given)

That doesn't answer my question. I asked you to clarify the distinction you yourself are making. Are you deliberately avoiding giving a straight answer to the questions I've asked?

reply to post by oliveoil


Olive,

You certainly have stirred the hornet's nest. Some of the responses are on point and some just venting. Both were I think expected and neither is wrong. It is what it is. I will try to stay on point and answer as asked to the best of my ability. This is an emotional topic for many, myself included.

Although I have never received abuse in the manner that many have from the Church and more accurately from criminals ensconced within it, I have experienced loss. I have lost faith in this institution that was at least a small part of my life and make-up for fifty years. (I could have figured out right from wrong without attending Catechism class.) The recent revelations regarding the various abuses and cover-ups were the source of my misgivings as has been the case for countless others. Although I have no doubt that there are those within the Church that are innocent, good and devout, once somebody pees in the pool, no one is eager to jump back in or completely comfortable while still in the water.

My falling out with the Church and its teachings has made me much more critical of every large entity. The signs are all around us and seemingly more frequently in the news than ever before. Teachers having sexual encounters with students, public servants in various scandals, CEOs and banksters making out like bandits and on and on. It seems at times that the onslaught of indifference and indecency has been planned and executed to pressure and control us in various ways. With the Church, and not just the RC Church but nearly every church and spiritual refuge being exposed as fraudulent and corrupt of late seems the nastiest part of the onslaught. Everything that we've considered reliable and stable in our lives is in the least under suspicion in these turbulent times. At least that's my take.

Why is our world the way it is? What does this all mean? I have no clear answer but there are many inquiries and proposals within the threads of ATS. This is what we're all here to find out.

There is good to be found here too. I now scrutinize more closely my daily decision making. I'm more in-tune to the world being filled with flawed people. I am more appreciative of those that fight vigilantly to succeed against their own flaws and limitations. I still respect the great number of priests and nuns as well as my fellow parishioners that maintained their focus and stuck to choosing others over self. The minutia can be debated but there were and are good and devout people within the Catholic Church. I seriously doubt that these good people are still completely without doubts of there own. Everyone was touched, literally and figuratively. This thing rolled along for centuries and as much as I might wish it so, it will not purge itself of all wrong or disappear overnight.

To sum up, I would say that the Church and its escapades have made me more aware that nothing is easy, few things are as they seem and that learning never stops.

Peace

The Holy See and the Vatican City State have an interesting relationship to each other and the world. The latter became independent of Italy in the '20s and the former seems to be contained within, yet each grant separate passports. The Holy See grants passports in Latin and the Vatican City State, in Italian. Neither are permitted membership in the UN, however, the Holy See is a non-member observer.

Identifying Catholics is no easy task these days what with Opus Dei and various other major offshoots from the Vatican/Holy See. To add to the confusion, many of these organizations are recognized and funded in many different ways by the Vatican/Holy See.

If you are Catholic and love being so and define yourself in one way or another as such, it should be sufficient that you are what you believe yourself to be, a Catholic and conduct yourself as the Catholic you define yourself to be and not anybody else's Catholic.

For those who have suffered at the hands of the Church, but still love the Church and remain their own Catholic, insist on the Church asking for your forgiveness. This is healing many and is happening in different ways now. This new Pope is far more open then any the Church has ever known.

If you truly loathe the Church and feel strongly it should fall, get involved with legal organizations working on doing just that. The off shoot Catholic organizations stand ready to take over the Vatican/Holy See, especially Opus Dei. Think this through...Opus Dei.

If I have learned anything from the Lord Jesus it is this. "For love, for forgiveness and to heal, why would I not be where, when or what is needed? This small amount of humility to comfort another's heart, it can only make me stronger."

reply to post by Missing Blue Sky


Only after months of pressure from the countries around the world. If the secret had never gotten out there is no way he would be doing that right now. The simple fact that he covered it up for so long supports that

reply to post by Evil3unnie


Well I hope your prayer sessions with the Almighty don't end up like this....

Leaving aside all the witch hunt killings, pedophiles and atrocities of the past.the catholic church is a hierarchy based on intimidation that denies the power of the holy spirit to manifest in the church because the leaders want control and will not let God run the church.In that statement alone there is a Seven day seminar on the perversion of the catholic corporation .

Leaving aside all the witch hunt killings, pedophiles and atrocities of the past.the catholic church is a hierarchy based on intimidation that denies the power of the holy spirit to manifest in the church because the leaders want control and will not let God run the church.In that statement alone there is a Seven day seminar on the perversion of the catholic corporation . 

My personal problem with the catholic church.

The dark ages
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/82f874cfb387.jpg[/atsimg]

Once they embrace science and knowledge, then I may not mind them soo much, but until then, they are an insult to humanitys potential.

Originally posted by Brood

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

atheism is a system based in "belief" (if one believes in it that is their 'faith' in it) it is the deism of self and the most arrogant and ignorant of beliefs.

No, I'm sorry but you are extremely wrong. It has nothing to do with deism at all...

de·ism
   /ˈdiɪzəm/ Show Spelled[dee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
belief in the existence of a god on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation ( distinguished from theism).
2.
belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.

Still wondering about how that log in your eye is coming along, though...

You keep pointing out how people are ignorant and arrogant...

...yet here you are denying hard facts and touting your biased opinion as the only truth because you are right...

edit on 28-12-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)

I wouldn't bother with that guy..he is a troll. He has claimed before he willfully ignores information that opposes his views and beliefs. He is a proud champion of ignorance.

When my Mother and Father were going to get married, my mom being a Baptist and my dad Catholic, the priest from my dad's church came to her house to talk to her. He wanted her to switch to the RC church, but she wouldn't answer the door or talk to him. The priest proceeded to go around the house knocking on all the windows and doors trying to get her to let him in. She wouldn't and he wouldn't leave until my grandfather chased him off. Would be considered harassment in this day and age.

This was something my mother never forgot or got over, needless to say none of us were (converted) to the catholic way.

This is actually Iwinder's wife posting.

reply to post by MrWendal


I am willing to bet that you have never opened the Bible and actually did some research on your own. I take that back. Based on both videos you posted I KNOW you have never even bated and eye at the thought. Instead you pick videos from Youtube about contradictions in the Bible (like the first one) never doing any research about the subject yet you seem to think you know what you are talking about? It is easy for anyone to follow the masses and do what is cool and in (i.e poking fun at Jesus, and religion). Who is more blind one who actually investigates things for themselves or the one who never even tries and just goes with status que?


Again thanks for the videos I will actually use them to learn.