Evidence no plane crashed & buried in Shanksville; piles of dirt, but no piles of plane debris

Originally posted by Six Sigma

Originally posted by DIDtm
Debris found 8 miles away?
You really don't find anything fishy about this story? Really?

Have you researched what debris were found 8 miles away? If you did, your three questions above would not be necessary.

Yes I have.
Debris from the plane. No bigger than a briefcase...as was reported.
Also reported was human remains.

I still am asking the 3 questions.

reply to post by GlennCanady


Ladies and gentlemen, may I present what is WRONG with the so-called "truth movement"?

Exhibit "A":

This plane was shot down by the Happy Hooligans out of North Dakota. Alex Jones talked to the pilots who shot it down with Aim 9 Sidewinders. The story they told you on TV was just another lie to make people feel good. This plane was probably the one they were going to remote control into WTC 7...

"Alex Jones"? JOKE.

The "Happy Hooligans"? From the 119th NDANG?? Minot and Fargo, ND?? Fargo, ND, is over 1,000 miles away from Shanksville, PA. OK. let's look into that...they weren't in North Dakota that morning, were on detachment at Langley.

The two aging fighters, part of a Fargo, North Dakota-based Air National Guard group known as the Happy Hooligans, were stationed at Langley field just outside of Washington. They were, in fact, the only fighter defense available to Washington on the morning of 9/11. When they were scrambled, unfortunately, no one told the pilots WHY they were being scrambled, so instead of flying over the city, they flew out to sea -- which is was what they had been trained to do (It was assumed that an attack would be from incoming cruise missiles from a Russian sub.). By the time the F-16s got back over Washington, the Pentagon had been in flames for twenty minutes.

www.roadsideamerica.com...

Rick Gibney wasn't in Langley, apparently...but in Fargo. Over 1,000 miles away.



"remote control"?? Another JOKE.

Folks, this sort of garbage can only mean a few things....the persons spewing it are delusional, or; they wish to discredit YOU (the "truth seekers"), or; they have sick, twisted senses of humor.

In any case, the FACTS speak for themselves...not tools like Alex Jones....

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Ladies and gentlemen, may I present what is WRONG with the so-called "truth movement"?

Better show us that tons and tons of plane debris supposedly dug out of that field before you start saying what's wrong with the truth movement. Glass houses buddy.

Originally posted by DIDtm


Yes I have.
Debris from the plane. No bigger than a briefcase...as was reported.
Also reported was human remains.

I still am asking the 3 questions.

What were the debris that were found 8 miles away, DIDtm? Again, if you know the answer you would not STILL be asking the questions.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Have you looked at PSA 1771? Here's a thread, about two years old, now...discusses it:

Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 was a commercial flight that crashed in San Luis Obispo County, California, on December 7, 1987.
...[skip]... Like Flight 93, PSA 1771 crashed at high speed after a steep dive leaving an impact crater in the ground and the plane disintegrated in small pieces scattering light weight debris (including vital clues to the cause of the crash) up to eight miles from the crash site.

Not "like" what Flight 93 supposedly did. Flight 1771 crashed at a 70 degree angle and mostly stayed above ground. Flight 93 supposedly crash at a 40 degree angle and supposedly mostly buried.

Far from similar.

Originally posted by Six Sigma
What were the debris that were found 8 miles away

What does that have to do with this thread?

Please stop derailing it.

Ath...regard it as meaning you are onto something when weedy and the boyz rock up and start sabotaging your thread....

I dont think ONE of them have addressed the main point of this thread .... and they wont...because they cant.

Your not surprised, and neither am I ...we know how they operate, and we can see thru their connivence.

Dave will be over next...or did he put in for Leave??

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by GlennCanady

 

Ladies and gentlemen, may I present what is WRONG with the so-called "truth movement"?

Exhibit "A":

This plane was shot down by the Happy Hooligans out of North Dakota. Alex Jones talked to the pilots who shot it down with Aim 9 Sidewinders. The story they told you on TV was just another lie to make people feel good. This plane was probably the one they were going to remote control into WTC 7...

"Alex Jones"? JOKE.

The "Happy Hooligans"? From the 119th NDANG?? Minot and Fargo, ND?? Fargo, ND, is over 1,000 miles away from Shanksville, PA. OK. let's look into that...they weren't in North Dakota that morning, were on detachment at Langley.

The two aging fighters, part of a Fargo, North Dakota-based Air National Guard group known as the Happy Hooligans, were stationed at Langley field just outside of Washington. They were, in fact, the only fighter defense available to Washington on the morning of 9/11. When they were scrambled, unfortunately, no one told the pilots WHY they were being scrambled, so instead of flying over the city, they flew out to sea -- which is was what they had been trained to do (It was assumed that an attack would be from incoming cruise missiles from a Russian sub.). By the time the F-16s got back over Washington, the Pentagon had been in flames for twenty minutes.

www.roadsideamerica.com...

Rick Gibney wasn't in Langley, apparently...but in Fargo. Over 1,000 miles away.



"remote control"?? Another JOKE.

Folks, this sort of garbage can only mean a few things....the persons spewing it are delusional, or; they wish to discredit YOU (the "truth seekers"), or; they have sick, twisted senses of humor.

In any case, the FACTS speak for themselves...not tools like Alex Jones....

USAF says: "The US Air Force Shot Down Flight 93"

USAF Weapons Load Crew Says One of Our Missiles Is Missing

The following comment was posted to my blog today (I do not know who the author is -- he posted semi-anonymously; so decide for yourself whether or not you believe him):

"I am an Air Force veteran. I was serving at Langley AFB, Virginia on Sept. 11. (not to be confused with CIA headquarters at Langley, VA). The "Alert Squadron" of 4 F-16 Falcons also stationed at Langley AFB was scrambled AFTER the "plane" crashed into the Pentagon. Because of my position as a ground equipment mechanic, I had access to the flightline operations that day. My friends were Crew Cheifs and Weapons Loaders, among other professions on the flightline that day. One of my [unusual] duties that day was to drive a Loader (personal friend) along with a rack of live missiles (AIM-9's and AIM-120's) across the active runway to the Alert Squadron and drop them off. I was towing equipment to the flightline, so when it was time to go back and pick up the Loader (and our missile trailer) I was unable to do so, but another member of my Flight (a good friend, and later roommate) did go. According to my roommate (and I later confirmed with the Loader) the Loader was completely silent most of the trip back to our side of the base, after they crossed the active, he spoke. "They shot one down." JJ replied "WHAT?" Loader:"One of those 16's came back with one less missile than it left with" That was all. As they pulled back in to the squadron area, The loader was whisked away by his commanders for debriefing. I didn't see him for a few days, but when I did, he said he couldn't talk about it, but he confirmed that what my roommate had told me was true.

"The US Air Force shot down Flight 93. I haven't told this to many people. I told my parents and other family members shortly after I left the military. They didn't believe it. I figured no one else would either. I kept my mouth shut. Everyone was dedicated to the president and the country (not really) And anything that went against the Official, media delivered story was viewed as unpatriotic. I knew that I loved this country, so I kept my mouth shut. I just can't do that anymore. I know that I don't have any documents to prove it, and I have no way of knowing where the others involved are now days, so I can't prove anything. All I have is my word. and with God as my witness that is the truth."

A state or federal grand jury should subpoena this eyewitness, along with Col Rick Gibney
(Click link for more background on this testimony.)

georgewashington.blogspot.com...

So if it wasn't Rick.....than the odds are 75% 1 of the other 3, also honored with a medal did it!

*** BACK ON TOPIC PLEASE ***


This thread is about the tons and tons of mystery debris that was supposedly dug out of the ground.

reply to post by TheLieWeLive


I'm glad you mentioned this, was hoping someone would pay attention...because I watched carefully, as well:

Towards the end of that video it looked as though the pilot was trying to overcompensate for something. Maybe a damaged wing? It's as though someone is fighting to keep the plane afloat. If these terrorist took any form of flight training I doubt they would be overcompensating like shown.

If the plane was damaged from another source, could be a missile or could be ammunition, it could have easily damaged a wing or vertical stabilizer from working properly and caused this same effect.

You should watch again...and keep in mind that there is a consistent correlation to control wheel movement, amount of deflection, and airplane reaction. In other words, airplane attitude in pitch/roll does not change, except when the controls are moved...and every control movement is proper for the direction of attitude change, and instrument readings seen.

You will see a consistent (slight) time lag too. This is normal, and what is true when you fly the real airplane too. The fraction of a second, each time...especially with the very large, abrupt control movements. In normal operations, of course, that sort of extreme movement is rare...turbulence encounters, usually. Else, the "ride" experienced by passengers would be less than pleasantly smooth....and, this was the intent of the hijackers, in the final moments. As I noted....

Compare to the CVR transcript info, either the printed version (available online) or the text included in the video. I think you can realize how rapidly rolling left/right can cause a person who is standing, and not braced, to stumble and lose balance. Also, the action of pushing forward with great exaggerated intent will cause a change in the Gs felt....you can simulate a "zero G" situation easily (just as NASA does, with their "vomit comet" flights, for Astronaut training). Further aggressive nose down force will even result in negative Gs.

Post 9/11 we discussed that tactic amongst ourselves....devising strategy IF personally faced with another hijacking attempt. Was discarded as ineffective, and possibly more dangerous than it was worth, for many reasons....at best, it is a minimal deterrent. It only has a short-term duration. The passengers of UAL 93 weren't deterred, surely. All one has to do is find a way to brace oneself....

As I said, the notion of a "shoot-down" immediately after intercept isn't the way things work, in the real world. There was still a large window of time before UAL 93 would have reached the DC area, from that location in Pennsylvania. Most people just "buy into" these "conspiracy concepts", and they lack experience or understanding that many of us have, to see the major flaws IN the "theories".

For comparison to that NTSB video, showing controls moving, and airplane reaction, here's another.
The Captain is flying in this accident sequence (not that that is relevant). Watch the control wheel movements, especially as he operated the ailerons. AND the airplane response. (The extreme motions he used were because of the weather conditions....strong, gusty crosswinds, and associated turbulence):



Article.

BTW, as I watch that....I am reluctant to speak ill of the dead (Captain's injuries were fatal) but it is hard not to be critical of much of that approach....even as the video starts, he is well off to the right of the Localizer centerline (and thus, the runway). A good technique to use, when facing a strong crosswind like that, is to remain a little bit off-center, but UPWIND of your course....that way, the wind will tend to blow you more to the middle, especially during the flare and touchdown portion. He "got it back" to center eventually, but it just looked sloppy.

His x-wind technique in the flare and touchdown leaves a bit to be desired too. I have a lot of time in the MD-80, and you can use the wing-low method in crosswinds up to about 10-12 degrees of bank...wing down, opposite rudder and smoother touchdowns. with the airplane aligned with the runway, rather than landing in a "crab".

However, many things were a lot of missed items (auto spoilers, auto brakes), from "rushing" the approach and checklists, and this led to the accident. Hindsight is always 20/20, though...and it's difficult to second-guess, after the fact. Just a few opinions from observing it carefully, though.....

Originally posted by DIDtm
No.No.No.
You see..when the plane crashed, it disintegrated on impact. There was no fire because the plane came in at such a high velocity, the plane must have dumped all of its fuel first. And they did find all kinds of debris. Its just not evidenced in the photos you supplied because you 'picked and chose' what pics to use.
How dare you? They found a drivers license of a FL woman there to Petes Sake. She was on the plane.
How dare you try to pass this off as fact. You should be ashamed of yourself.

(SARCASM) - But thats what your going to hear from others.

Then why was there debris miles away? The plane was shot down by a jet in the air. It broke up in the air. That's how you get multiple debris sites miles away. The OS is public relations fairy tale. In addition, why is it that the plane turned to dust but terrorist passports and an expired driver's license survives undamaged? BS

They question is,is it possible they faked a plane crash?In this situation of the whole 9/11 deal one has to wonder why they would fake a plane crash in a field when it would be easier just to crash an actual plane there.

I believe there are better points and evidence to 9/11 being an inside job then this one..no offense to the OP.

Like I don't think it's possible for a normal jetliner to crash through the tower to come out the other side unscathed then exploding like it did.That's an aluminum nose that a little bird can destroy just by flying into it.Things like that.

Or witnesses to the explosions.Or all the video evidence of an obvious demolition of building 7.

Then there's the whole pentagon situation where there are so many things being lied about or covered up.
Lloyd England a guy whose cab was supposedly hit by a light pole left no scratches on the hood even though a plane just hit it at 500 mph.And.Lloyd's Wife works for the FBI.Lloyd's neighbor just so happen to be there talking pictures.What about Lloyd England?What did Lloyd mean when he said "it was planned".."i'm in it"...WE CAME ACROSS THE HIGHWAY TOGETHER"-Lloyd England "You and their event"?Craig Renke.."That's right"-Lloyd England Then you have the hole size.Then you have Hani Hanjour a guy who never flew a 757 before in his life flew an impossible(for him)flight path that not even professionals can do on a simulator.

I mean there are just too many things really.When do people look at this and go "hmm,a lot of fishy occurrences happened on 9/11"?

Too many.

reply to post by ATH911


@ you, and @ benoni....

It's interesting when the claims of "off" and "derailing" are raised by you sorts....

...especially singling out certain members who bring facts and .information IN RESPONSE to the "deflections" in the questions posed by OTHER members. They ask. Questions deserve response. Helps in clarity.

It is called a "DISCUSSION"!!

But, to make you happy?

Your premise? Nonsense. There, how's that?

In this thread, the examples are evident....OTHER high-speed, high-angle impacts, for comparison.

Asking (really...."rhetorically demanding"...) to see "piles of debris" is ridiculous. IF it is actually a serious attempt at a question (and not a "baiting" tactic) then it indicates a serious lack of understanding about how an accident scene, and specifically THAT "crime" scene, was handled in the aftermath.

Further: There is not an "hour-by-hour" travelogue record of every moment, just to suit your (or any other "conspiracy" seeker)'s fancy. It is NOT ABOUT YOU!!!

reply to post by ATH911


Two things before the sillyness starts...Did you imagine that a plane can augur in at the speed and attack angle it was traveling and leave BIG recognizable pieces...That's just ignorant....Go to the top of a 20 story building and drop an egg...the resulting impact should be similar.
Secondly....You've clearly never dug a hole...when you remove dirt from a hole it takes up 5 to ten times the space if you try to put it back...because you've uncompacted it...If anything,there isn't enough visible dirt...clearly some has been trucked away...Which I believe was announced so that it could be sifted to recover the very small pieces of plane and human remains....

reply to post by ATH911
oops double post.

Originally posted by nivekronnoco
reply to post by ATH911

 

Two things before the sillyness starts...Did you imagine that a plane can augur in at the speed and attack angle it was traveling and leave BIG recognizable pieces...That's just ignorant....

It is ignorant, on your part, because I never made an issue of the size of debris.

Secondly....You've clearly never dug a hole...when you remove dirt from a hole it takes up 5 to ten times the space if you try to put it back...because you've uncompacted it...

The soil in that field was already supposedly "loose and uncompacted." That was part of the excuse how that large plane was able to mostly bury.

In 1990, the reclamation process began: 190,000 cubic metres of soil and dynamited rock were spread over the site, then sewn with grass.

To the casual eye, it looked like solid, consolidated ground but in reality the reclaimed expanse was loose and uncompacted. When flight 93 hit the ground, the cockpit and first-class cabin broke off, scattered into millions of fragments that spread and flew like shrapnel into and through the trees 20 metres away.

A section of the engine, weighing almost a tonne, was found on the bed of a catchment pond, 200 metres downhill.

Some of the plane's cargo was found intact ­ 200 kilograms of mail in the hold, a Bible, its cover scorched but its pages undamaged and later, as the excavation began, the passport of one of the four hijackers.

The rest of the 757 continued its downward passage, the sandy loam closing behind it like the door of a tomb. Eventually these pieces and its human cargo ­ the heroes and the cowards, as a message left at the nearby temporary memorial put it ­ came to rest against solid rock, 23 metres below the surface.

www.theage.com.au...

If anything,there isn't enough visible dirt...clearly some has been trucked away...Which I believe was announced so that it could be sifted to recover the very small pieces of plane and human remains....

Trucked away where?!? They were supposedly processing it all right there on the spot.

I never believed flight 93 crashed there. If it did, it was blown to bits before it ever hit the ground. Quite simply, the aircraft wouldn't have burrowed 15' into the ground. Period. Never. It just wouldn't happen. The whole flight 93 OS is BS. They found debris 3 miles away. There is no way to explain that other than the plane was blown up in the air.

What do you think is going to be left when a plane traveling at close to 500 mph is going to do when it impacts almost straight down? The plane will be vaporized

en.wikipedia.org...

i know a first responder who was there and they found plane debris
check out the above link and photos of the crash scene

Originally posted by surfnow2
What do you think is going to be left when a plane traveling at close to 500 mph is going to do when it impacts almost straight down? The plane will be vaporized.

It officially crashed at a 40 degree angle and 95% of it was supposedly recovered. Far cry from impacting almost straight down and then vaporizing.

You skeptics should probably brush up on the official story before trying to debate.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Yes, I studied the report on that quite some time ago. If you read the actual report, it indicates the plane exceeded maximum allowable speeds after it started diving and started mid-air break-up before impact.