Evidence no plane crashed & buried in Shanksville; piles of dirt, but no piles of plane debris

reply to post by weedwhacker


Well, I appreciate your time taken to reply with clarity. Admittedly, I do have questions about 911 to this day, but I really do want solid facts for conclusions. It appears that details around PSA 1771 are a little vague and we'll have to retrieve/study the original report for more conclusion.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Like I think....the "9/11 conspiracy" types do NOT want any valid comparisons to UAL 93, since it blows away their "theories"..... >shrug<

Eh, hem...

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Have you looked at PSA 1771? Here's a thread, about two years old, now...discusses it:

Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 was a commercial flight that crashed in San Luis Obispo County, California, on December 7, 1987.
...[skip]... Like Flight 93, PSA 1771 crashed at high speed after a steep dive leaving an impact crater in the ground and the plane disintegrated in small pieces scattering light weight debris (including vital clues to the cause of the crash) up to eight miles from the crash site.

Not "like" what Flight 93 supposedly did. Flight 1771 crashed at a 70 degree angle and mostly stayed above ground. Flight 93 supposedly crash at a 40 degree angle and supposedly mostly buried.

Far from similar.

reply to post by ATH911

S&F I agree ATH911, the government OS about flight 93 stinks. Not only was there little to nothing recovered, but nothing was identified as proof to belonging to said plane, absolutely nothing.
Under the FOIA PilotsFor911Truth was able to get their hands on the last transcripts from Air Traffic Control (ATC) which “proves flight93 was still airborne pass the alleged crash site.

United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash - According To ATC/Radar
04/28/09 (PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Recently it has been brought to our attention that Air Traffic Control (ATC) transcripts reveal United 93 as being airborne after it's alleged crash. Similar scenarios have been offered with regard to American 77 and American 11 showing an aircraft target continuing past its alleged crash point in the case of American 11, or past the turn-around point in the case of American 77. However, both these issues can be easily explained by "Coast Mode" radar tracking. This is not the case with United 93.

pilotsfor911truth.org...

UNITED 93 DATA PROVIDED BY US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT SUPPORT OBSERVED EVENTS

In May, 2007, members of Pilots for 9/11 Truth received these documents from the NTSB and began a close analysis of the data they contain. After expert review and cross check, Pilots for 9/11 Truth has concluded that the information in these NTSB documents does not support, and in some instances factually contradicts, the official government position that United Airlines Flight 93 created the impact crater as reported, in Somerset County, PA on the morning of September 11, 2001 .According to the US Govt, United Airlines Flight 93 approached Somerset County from the North-Northwest at a high altitude on the morning of September 11, 2001 . However, many witnesses contradict altitude as well as approach path. Also according to reports, and as the impact crater suggests, United Airlines Flight 93 impacted terrain at an almost vertical 90 degree angle, while the Flight Data Recorder shows a 35 degree angle with up-sloping terrain, further reducing impact angle.
The information provided by the US Government does not support reports of United Airlines Flight 93 approach, impact angles, and lack of jet fuel at Somerset Country, PA.
Pilots for 9/11 Truth is committed to discovering the truth surrounding the events of September 11, 2001 . We have contacted both the NTSB and the FBI regarding these and other inconsistencies. To date, they have refused to comment on, correct, refute, retract or offer side-letters that might explain the discrepancies between what they claim are the data extracted from the FDR of United Flight 93 and the events observed. .As concerned citizens and professionals in the aviation industry, Pilots for 9/11 Truth asks, why have these discrepancies not been addressed by agencies within the United States Government? Pilots for 9/11 Truth takes the position that an official government inquiry into these discrepancies is warranted and long overdue. We call upon our fellow citizens to write to their Congressional representatives to inform them of these discrepancies and call for an immediate investigation into this matter. For more information and in depth analysis please visit pilotsfor911truth.org.

pilotsfor911truth.org...

F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Identify 9/11 Plane Wreckage

911blogger.com...

The lies we were told by our government about 911 and the PA. crash is evidence that only proves our government is covering up the truth, an ugly truth that they do not want the American people to find out. Why would they lie, because more and more evidence points that flight 93 never crashed? There never has been any evidence that proves those photos on the internet are photos of the real parts that belong to flight 93 everything that has been presented to the American people is mostly hearsay from the FBI, the very same people who help covered up this false flag, and everything else concerning 911.
It is very clear to many that and handful of neocons, members in the Bush administration help carry out a false flag attack to get us in the Middle East. Fact is, the information the Bush administration told the American people to get the over whelming support for war has now been proven lies, this alone supports evidence that 911 was manufactured by government insiders as well as all the fabricated Intel we were given. The government “silence” about 911, speaks enough to the American people.

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by skeptic_al

Sounds like your in denial like all the other Truthers.
It also sounds like you are expecting to see Wings and Seats scattered every where. Simple Fact is, the Plane was smashed into peices no bigger than a few Inches.

Where have I made an issue with the average size of debris left? You skeptics don't read too well.

Be Cause

I've heard this soooo many times, I wish I got dollar for.....

And I did say "Sounds" like, meaning may not been said, but that is what is being inferred.

All truthers say, where's the Plane, I don't see a Plane, how can it be Plane crash and there be no Plane, so where's the Plane.

If your looking for a Plane, you won't find a Plane. There have been a few cases where planes were not found or only small pieces of Plane, no people, no Red Box. What makes this Unique is in other crashes the Pilots would trying to minimize the Impact to increase the chance of Survival. This is the complete Opposite, and therefore this plane would have been several times faster than any similar crash. And for some maths, if this Plane was going double the speed of normal controlled crash that would be 4 times the amount of Energy. But it was probably going 2.5-3 times faster, and that would make it more than 8-10 times more energy than your everyday crash. The Recovered Red Box was found buried 9 freak'n meters!. So, I can only suggest you get out tape measure and start measuring how much that is.

reply to post by skeptic_al

I'll set your mind at ease, I have no issue with the size of the reported debris.

And I don't say "Where's the plane?" I do say "Where's the tons and tons of debris?" that was supposedly recovered (80% in the ground, 95% in total). So far I haven't seen it. Do you know where it was? So far, no skeptic can show me.

reply to post by ATH911


There were no News Cameras running 24/7 to record the recovery. And all the Shots I've seen and there aren't many show the same thing. I don't even think they bothered to escavate the entire site more than a few meters except to find the boxes. In any other crash the Public are Never let any where near an Accident, and are under no obligation to show any of materials recovered. It was treated like any other Crash site. Even with TV Shows like Aircraft Investigations, you still won't see anything more unless it happened ages ago.

Originally posted by skeptic_al
I don't even think they bothered to escavate the entire site more than a few meters except to find the boxes.

Wrong. They dug down to about 45 feet. The reason being is because supposedly when most of the plane buried through the ground, it accordioned off a layer of bedrock at that depth. They supposedly had to dig down 15 feet to start finding debris, that's where they allegedly found the first black box. They said they found the 2nd black box the next day at 25 feet. They said most of the buried debris was between 25 feet and 35 feet. They said 80% of the 757 was underground. 80% of a 60 ton plane would be about 24 cars-worth of debris.

You can see why I'm a little skeptical that anything buried when they claim that much buried, but only seeing one engine part allegedly being unearthed that happens to fit in the backhoe bucket they had supposedly unearthed it with.

This is a fascinating thread ,as are others that cover the subject of 9/11 , but at the end of the day it all boils down to what you TRULY believe, happened .

As a Brit , watching from the outside , my initial gut reaction was one of utter belief that this whole act was perpetrated solely for a greater ( maybe some may say, more criminal ) goal.

Look it actually is very clear we were lied to about what happened. Here is a video of a slip of the tongue by Donald Rumsfeld stating that they shot the plane down.

Even the best liars let the truth slip out. Donald Rumsfeld stating that the plane was shot down

Has the confusion concerning the data recorder been debunked/proven yet?

back-in-black-boxes.html

Originally posted by TXRabbit
Has the confusion concerning the data recorder been debunked/proven yet?

back-in-black-boxes.html

Great find.
Ive never seen that before.
Kind of funny how all the coincidences that took/take part during the attacks themselves and the aftermath of the investigation on every level.

But as the site says, Im sure that the box was swapped out during the two years after the acquisition of Allied and Honeywell.
Of course it was.

Originally posted by DIDtm

Originally posted by TXRabbit
Has the confusion concerning the data recorder been debunked/proven yet?

back-in-black-boxes.html

Great find.
Ive never seen that before.
Kind of funny how all the coincidences that took/take part during the attacks themselves and the aftermath of the investigation on every level.

But as the site says, Im sure that the box was swapped out during the two years after the acquisition of Allied and Honeywell.

Of course it was.

Can anyone tell me.....'are those people', the witnesses in the video, are they ALL lying!?
www.youtube.com...

Can anyone tell me please!.....why should she say there were 3 hijackers???
And final....."Who was the whispervoice at the end!" (Shocking!!!)
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by FemaF4Fotoshop

Can anyone tell me please!.....why should she say there were 3 hijackers???

Because thats all the hijackers she saw

The "pilot" hijacker was placed close to the cockpit - he would not be involved in the iniitial takeover, probably
to avoid injury as was only one with skill to fly plane. After pilots were killed and removed from cockpit would
then enter the cockpit.

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by FemaF4Fotoshop

 

Can anyone tell me please!.....why should she say there were 3 hijackers???

Because thats all the hijackers she saw

The "pilot" hijacker was placed close to the cockpit - he would not be involved in the iniitial takeover, probably
to avoid injury as was only one with skill to fly plane. After pilots were killed and removed from cockpit would
then enter the cockpit.

Okay....1 was not seen.

How about the first You Tube?!
And the whispervoice at the end of CeeCee's phonecall?

Let's see if the skeptics can show hard evidence today that tons and tons of plane debris was dug out of the field.

I won't hold my breathe.

Originally posted by ATH911
Let's see if the skeptics can show hard evidence today that tons and tons of plane debris was dug out of the field.

I won't hold my breathe.

You also won't do anything beyond google searching for photos of Shanksville. In which case you are hereby condemned to forever be gaurded from the truth.

Originally posted by hooper
You also won't do anything beyond google searching for photos of Shanksville. In which case you are hereby condemned to forever be gaurded from the truth.

Says the skeptic who doesn't believe any of the plane buried, but argues like it did!

reply to post by ATH911


Where have I ever said that none of the plane embedded at the point of impact?

I have pointed out that the plane was not buried - you should think about your words. Nobody dug a hole, threw in the plane bits and then covered them back up again.

Oh, now I get - that is what you think happened. Little government gnomes snuck out to the field the night before, dug a hole and then threw in the plane parts.

Got any photos of that?