5 Myth about Islam

Pedophilia in the koran?


www.wikiislam.net...

Qur'an 65.4:
Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same)*: for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.


*pre-pubescent girls who have not yet menstruated.

Originally posted by FarArcher
"The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew [again] and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted me to do. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes, and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she [mother] entrusted me to them and they prepared me. Unexpectedly Allah's messenger [Muhammed] came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age." Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234

"My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and began leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammed was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old." Tabari IX:31

"The Prophet said, 'A virgin should not be married until she is asked for her consent.' 'O Apostle! How will the virgin express her consent?' He said, 'By remaining silent.'"

"I participated in the Ghazwa [raid] with the Prophet. I said, 'I am a bridegroom.' He asked me if I had married a virgin or maiden. I answered, 'A matron.' He said, 'Why not a virgin who would have played with you?? Then you could have played with her.' 'Apostle! My father was martyred and I have some young sisters, so I felt it not proper that I should marry a young girl as young as them.'" Bukhari V4B52N211

Muhammed was a crusty old pervert, today known as a pedophile.

Thank you, FarArcher, for the support. I think I got the Aisha story from Martin LIng's classic, "Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Souces" published back in 1983.

Martin Lings (1909 - 2005) was an Englishman. Oxford grad. Fluent in Arabic. Highly respected scholar. He was also a student of the German Sufi teacher & Muslim convert, Frithjof Schuon.

Sadly, Sufism is a genuine spiritual path that has been confused by its association with Islam. There are over a 100 different Sufi orders, some of these orders have been hijacked by Islam. If you run into a Sufi order that demands you convert to Islam, RUN.

True Sufism is NOT associated with ANY organized religion: so you can find Christian Sufis or Hindu Sufis, etc.

Sufism was already ancient before Muhammad was ever born. It has its roots in PRE-Islamic Persia and the Hermetic traditions of the ancient PRE-Islamic Egyptian mystery schools.

Sufism existed in the areas over-run by the Islamic armies. Muslims have killed Sufis in the past & present. The Sufis stayed to ameliorate Islam from within. So there is a real split within the Islamic world. A tragic fate for Sufism.

P.S. FarArcher, I have read many of your posts on this thread. Excellent!

SeaWind

Originally posted by racasan
Pedophilia in the koran?


www.wikiislam.net...

Qur'an 65.4:
Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same)*: for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.


*pre-pubescent girls who have not yet menstruated.

65:4 (Asad) Now as for such of your women as are beyond, the age of monthly courses, as well as for such as do not have any courses, [10] their waiting-period - if you have any doubt [about it] - shall be three [calendar] months; and as for those who are with child, the end of their waiting-term shall come when they deliver their burden. And for everyone who is conscious of God, He makes it easy to obey His commandment: [11] -

reply to post by SeaWind

Originally posted by SeaWind
Sadly, Sufism is a genuine spiritual path that has been confused by its association with Islam. There are over a 100 different Sufi orders, some of these orders have been hijacked by Islam. If you run into a Sufi order that demands you convert to Islam, RUN.

True Sufism is NOT associated with ANY organized religion: so you can find Christian Sufis or Hindu Sufis, etc.

Sufism was already ancient before Muhammad was ever born. It has its roots in PRE-Islamic Persia and the Hermetic traditions of the ancient PRE-Islamic Egyptian mystery schools.

Sufism existed in the areas over-run by the Islamic armies. Muslims have killed Sufis in the past & present. The Sufis stayed to ameliorate Islam from within. So there is a real split within the Islamic world. A tragic fate for Sufism.

Ehwhat?!
Sufiism, as an esoteric or mystical tradition, exists and originated from Islam. It may have picked up a couple of things from the surroundings along the way, but they were as banal as Indian muslims singing in hindi (the language of India) instead of arabic. I don't know where you're getting your weird ideas from. If you want to refer to esoteric or mystical traditions in hinduism, you'd call it Vedenta (or maybe Kashmiri Shaivism?). If you want to refer to Christian traditions of mysticism, you'd talk about Gnostic Christianity. If you want to talk about Jewish Esoteric thought, you'd refer to it as Kabbala. Lumping them all together only leads to confusion.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by SeaWind

 

Ehwhat?!
Sufiism, as an esoteric or mystical tradition, exists and originated from Islam. It may have picked up a couple of things from the surroundings along the way, but they were as banal as Indian muslims singing in hindi (the language of India) instead of arabic. I don't know where you're getting your weird ideas from. If you want to refer to esoteric or mystical traditions in hinduism, you'd call it Vedenta (or maybe Kashmiri Shaivism?). If you want to refer to Christian traditions of mysticism, you'd talk about Gnostic Christianity. If you want to talk about Jewish Esoteric thought, you'd refer to it as Kabbala. Lumping them all together only leads to confusion.

You, Babloyi, have been brainwashed. My information that Sufism is NOT Islam came from Pir Vilayat Khan (son of Hazrat Inayat Khan), who lead the Sufi Order International.

And your, "...If you want to refer to esoteric or mystical traditions in hinduism, you'd call it Vedenta (or maybe Kashmiri Shaivism?). If you want to refer to Christian traditions of mysticism, you'd talk about Gnostic Christianity. If you want to talk about Jewish Esoteric thought, you'd refer to it as Kabbala. Lumping them all together only leads to confusion."

has nothing to do with anything I said. I'm not lumping anything together.

SeaWind

reply to post by SeaWind

Good for you.
They are part of a movement (Universal Sufism) that has separated itself from direct Islam, but it still has it's roots in it. What YOU learnt of Sufism from them may not be directly related to Islam, but that doesn't mean that they speak for anything more than a fairly small part of Sufism as a whole.

reply to post by oozyism


065.004
YUSUFALI: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

PICKTHAL: And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him.

SHAKIR: And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair.

Tafsir al-Jalalayn:
And [as for] those of your women who (read allā’ī or allā’i in both instances) no longer expect to menstruate, if you have any doubts, about their waiting period, their prescribed [waiting] period shall be three months, and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months — both cases apply to other than those whose spouses have died; for these [latter] their period is prescribed in the verse: they shall wait by themselves for four months and ten [days] [Q. 2:234]. And those who are pregnant, their term, the conclusion of their prescribed [waiting] period if divorced or if their spouses be dead, shall be when they deliver. And whoever fears God, He will make matters ease for him, in this world and in the Hereafter.

www.altafseer.com...

it must be really annoying to be in a religion where your forced to hide the gist of its “holy” book says

Originally posted by oozyism
Quran is the word of GOD.

GOD and Mohammad is two separate entities.

Mohammad simply brought the message of GOD to us. He was nothing more than a man.

Mohammed was a prophet, the messenger of Allah, but since he knew everything he wrote was a lie to start a new religion throught which he could gain power he broke many of the mandates he claimed the angel Gabriel gave him. He broke those mandates because he knew he would not be punished...

He also brainwashed his followers into allowing him to get more spoils of war and the best women slaves he wanted to have..

[8:0] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

[8:1] They consult you about the spoils of war. Say, "The spoils of war belong to GOD and the messenger." You shall observe GOD, exhort one another to be righteous, and obey GOD and His messenger, if you are believers.

www.submission.org...

Nice that the spoils of war belong to God AND his messenger... and since Allah can't call on the spoils of war...

...

Here is the source material I use.

1) The Quran - N.J. Dawood's translation.

2) The Hadith collection of Bukhari. This collection of stories / traditions is the second most important set of books in Islam. It follows the Quran.

3) The Hadith collection of Muslim, (third most important set of writings).

4) The Hadith collection of Abu Dawud.

5) The biography of Muhammad, known as "Sirat Rasulallah", written by Ibn Ishaq, and translated by A. Guillaume as "The Life of Muhammad", (the most authentic biography of Muhammad’s life).

6) The biographical material found in Ibn Sa'd's "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir" (Book of the Major Classes). This was translated by S. Moinul Haq.

7) The History of Tabari. This 39 volume set is almost finished being translated by a collection of both Muslim and non-Muslim scholars.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FROM THE QURAN - 70:22-30

"Not so the worshippers, who are steadfast in prayer, who set aside a due portion of their wealth for the beggar and for the deprived, who truly believe in the Day of Reckoning and dread the punishment of their Lord (for none is secure from the punishment of their Lord); who restrain their carnal desire (save with their wives and their slave girls, for these are lawful to them: he that lusts after other than these is a transgressor..."


This verse shows that Muslim men were allowed to have sex with their wives (of course) and their slave girls.


FROM THE QURAN - 23:5,6

"...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them..."


Again, Muslim men were allowed to have sexual relations with their wives and slave girls.


FROM THE QURAN - 4:24

"And all married women are forbidden unto you save those captives whom your right hand possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. (Muhammad Pickthall's English translation of the Quran).


This verse is one verse out of a long passage dealing with who Muslim men can marry or have sexual relations with. The phrase "captives whom your right hand possess", means the slave girls Muslim men own.

Note also that this passage deals with more than just marriage. In Sahih Muslim volume 2, #3432, the background context for this Quranic verse is given. It relates to the events at Autus, and it permitted the Muslim men to have sex with their female slaves.



FROM THE QURAN - 33:50

"Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty;..."

This verse is for Muhammad. Supposedly, God allows Muhammad to have sex with his slave girls.

These verses establish that it was permissible for Muslim men to have sex with female slaves.

www.answering-islam.org...

It is obvious for what reasons Muhammed created Islam no?...

I have a question, out of curiosity.....am I right in thinking that Mohamad to Islam is the same as Joseph Smith to Mormon?

Originally posted by oozyism
Quran is the word of GOD.

You have already been shown that it is NOT. The book is full of errors and contradictions. It was invented by mass murdering thieves and liars. There is nothing about God in that book. Nothing.

Mohammad simply brought the message of GOD to us.

No he didn't. Muhammad murdered and lied and stole and was full of lust. This is not a prophet who brings God's message. The religion/political group he invented was stolen bits and pieces of other religions - paganism, Christianity, Zoroastarianism, and he even took from the Jews. Mohammads message was NOT from God, but was instead a message from a sick and power crazed mind.

He was nothing more than a man.

He was nothing more than a fraud.

reply to post by racasan


Stop reading anti-Islamic websites without doing your own research, honestly, it isn't good, especially when you don't even understand what the whole issue is about:

Chapter 65
Verse 1-5:
Ali Transelation:

1.
"65:1 (Y. Ali) O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear Allah your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah. and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new situation."

2.
"65:2 (Y. Ali) Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, either take them back on equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish the evidence (as) before Allah. Such is the admonition given to him who believes in Allah and the Last Day. And for those who fear Allah, He (ever) prepares a way out,"

3.
"65:3 (Y. Ali) And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if any one puts his trust in Allah, sufficient is ((Allah)) for him. For Allah will surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion."

4.
"65:4 (Y. Ali) Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy."

It is about divorce, if your wife hasn't had her monthly course, or she has, the time period is still three months, but if she is pregnant, there should be a wait until she has given birth.

It is talking about women, not prepubescent children.

Originally posted by oozyism

He was nothing more than a man.

I agree.
So why aren't we allowed to draw pictures or cartoons of him without receiving death threats?
Why is his word deemed infallable when we all know that no man is perfect and all are capable of making mistakes?

Originally posted by Freeborn

Originally posted by oozyism

He was nothing more than a man.

I agree.
So why aren't we allowed to draw pictures or cartoons of him without receiving death threats?
Why is his word deemed infallable when we all know that no man is perfect and all are capable of making mistakes?

Ask the idiots who would kill you for drawing one.

That is a good place to start with your research

reply to post by oozyism


You are the self-professed ATS expert on all things Islam, surely you can explain to me?

And maybe whilst you are at it maybe you could explain why most of the myth's you highlighted in your OP originated from within Islam itself and why some Islamic elements still maintain and promote those myths?

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by oozyism

 

You are the self-professed ATS expert on all things Islam, surely you can explain to me?

Ask me that question when I say I will cut off your head for drawing a cartoon.
It is easily accessible in Google, the answers of those who would murder you for drawing Mohammad's cartoons. It is a click away.

And maybe whilst you are at it maybe you could explain why most of the myth's you highlighted in your OP originated from within Islam itself and why some Islamic elements still maintain and promote those myths?

Already been answered.
Muslims have free will, just like soldiers.
The Quran is there for everyone to see, even you.

Hence, the army sets the rules, but soldiers can still break the rules.
If a soldier breaks the rules, it simply means soldiers has freewill.
To clarify, just because an American soldier raped an Iraqi girl, then killed her whole family, doesn't mean the military allows such actions.
The soldier later claimed he didn't think Iraqis were human.
Just because a Muslim murders innocent people, doesn't mean Islam allows this.

I think you are just trying to press buttons here and play some games, I will leave you with the above.

reply to post by oozyism


Let me help you out with your religious education

Tafsir
Tafsir (Arabic: تفسير‎, tafsīr, "interpretation") is the Arabic word for exegesis or commentary, usually of the Qur'an. It does not include esoteric or mystical interpretations, which are covered by the related word Ta'wīl. An author of tafsīr is a mufassir (Arabic: 'مُفسر‎, mufassir, plural: Arabic: مفسرون‎, mufassirūn).

Tafsir al-Jalalayn
Tafsir al-Jalalayn (Tafsir of the two Jalals) is a classical Sunni tafsir of the Qur'an, composed first by Jalal ad-Din al-Mahalli in 1459 and then completed by his student Jalal ad-Din as-Suyuti in 1505, thus its name. It is recognised as one of the most popular exegeses of the Qur'an today due to its simple style and its conciseness: It being only one volume in length. An English translation by Aisha Bewley was published in 2007.


muslims like to play a shell game, trying to hide the meaning of the koran, but you will find it hard to do with the 3 main translations and the Tafsir al-Jalalayn all saying the same thing

Tafsir al-Jalalayn:
And [as for] those of your women who (read allā’ī or allā’i in both instances) no longer expect to menstruate, if you have any doubts, about their waiting period, their prescribed [waiting] period shall be three months, and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months — both cases apply to other than those whose spouses have died; for these [latter] their period is prescribed in the verse: they shall wait by themselves for four months and ten [days] [Q. 2:234]. And those who are pregnant, their term, the conclusion of their prescribed [waiting] period if divorced or if their spouses be dead, shall be when they deliver. And whoever fears God, He will make matters ease for him, in this world and in the Hereafter.

and both the koran translations and the tafsir came from muslim websites

the reason you don't want to admit it is because you will have to explain why it is that your supposed creator is putting this sick misogynistic childhood destroying # in his book – even farm yard animals have enough sense not to damage their young by attempting to reproduce with them before they are ready, so how come allah didn’t know this?

Maybe the simplest solution is that the koran was actually written by a very backwards individual who was only interested in satisfying big mo and little mo

Originally posted by Freeborn

Originally posted by oozyism

He was nothing more than a man.

I agree.
So why aren't we allowed to draw pictures or cartoons of him without receiving death threats?
Why is his word deemed infallable when we all know that no man is perfect and all are capable of making mistakes?

Images may encourage Idolatry.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
Whats with all the bull# spreading on ATS,, anti Islam. If you didnt read the Quran yourself, who the hell are you to teach me my religion. Only the Arabic translation is completely accurate,, the other are translations.

There is no "Secret plot to DOMINATE the world by force". Sure there are a # ton on Muslims out there that commit terrible acts,,, they will be punished for that.

Well I must congratulate TPTB, you've accomplished your goal. The masses hate us.
HERE! HAVE AN INTERNET HIGH FIVE!!!!

reply to post by racasan


Sorry mate, the discussion revolves around the Quran, not the Tafsir.

Tafsirs are men's words, Quran is God's words.

It is right in front of you, try reading it.

damage their young by attempting to reproduce with them before they are ready, so how come allah didn’t know this?

Very disturbing comment.

Now for the sake of argument let's argue, because I'm getting quiet sick of people like you.

Tell me exactly where in that verse, does it talk about sexual intercourse with someone who has not reached puberty yet.

Explain it in your own words, rather than copying and pasting someone else's.
This will be interesting.

Originally posted by oozyism
Tafsirs are men's words, Quran is God's words.

The Qu'ran is just men's words as well. Full of errors and contradictions - which are the work of men.

It is right in front of you, try reading it.

Take your own advice. The errors and contradictions of the Qu'ran .. and the fact that it was written by men who were liars, thieves, and murderers, is right in front of you. Try reading the facts.