PROOF: Wikileaks is censoring & deleting cables!!

reply to post by Emilymary

www.indybay.org...

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Issues? For one, the classification process itself. It's laid out clearly in Executive Orders for the US. You can't just classify everything secret because you feel like it. That's not responsible transparency. The process of classification is being abused and should not be tolerated.

Sec. 1.7. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations.

(a) In no case shall information be classified in order to:
(1) conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error;
(2) prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;
(3) restrain competition; or
(4) prevent or delay the release of information that does not require protection in the interest of the national security.

www.archives.gov...

As for the cables themselves, there have been quite a few that have been scrutinized by experts. What the experts found were flat out lies to instigate possible conflicts. Had the cables not been released, that disinfo could have ignited. I'm not going to do the homework for you. If you choose to not delve into the cables, that's your business.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


But you're ok with the government telling you what's for you to know and what not? ZERO accountability? It's the press' job to criticize the government and hold it accountable, otherwise they get to do whatever they want. Like Indian police officers torturing people in prison. Or US forces not really giving a crap about civilian deaths because they don't have to disclose that figure even though they know. Or banks screwing all of us over which should come out in the next banking cables.

The fact that it's hard to tell which information hurts people and which doesn't is the reason this is taking so long. There's a LOT of editorial research to be done before you can publish something. It has nothing to do with "holding back information" like thecinic and a few other muppets believe, it's a matter of manpower and making sure no people get hurt in the process. Something WL has been successful at so far, given that we don't know of a single death related to the cables. That's pretty impressive given the immense scope of the material.

Of course governments need secrets, but NOT if those secrets violate freedom and liberties...or human rights. If people would think like you, as in, the government should regulate it, there would never have been a French revolution, never an American independence, and Hitler would probably still reign. There needs to be a degree of accountability and transparency. Historically, it was the media's role to do make sure the government doesn't #s up...but politics entered the media outlets and they changed from "news" to being "propaganda". They lost their ability to function properly as a means to keep the government in check.

The sad part is, some brainwashed people rather have their comfortable life based on routine and don't wanna see the often "ugly" truth. They rather be obedient drones...well, I don't want to be a mindless drones. I believe there should be accountability and freedom. And WL is doing a good job at standing up for freedom of speech!

reply to post by Cablespider

As for the cables themselves, there have been quite a few that have been scrutinized by experts. What the experts found were flat out lies to instigate possible conflicts. Had the cables not been released, that disinfo could have ignited. I'm not going to do the homework for you. If you choose to not delve into the cables, that's your business.

Why is this the answer I get from WL supporters all the time. You want to send me on a wild goose chase...when you have just claimed you have knowledge of these "issues" that they have brought to light.

Give me an example...believe me...I won't hold my breath.

reply to post by jetflock


That's the article Gordan Duff copy and pasted in his effort to discredit WL. Then he got caught. They have little to no credibility in the eyes of many investigating that claim.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Cablespider

 

As for the cables themselves, there have been quite a few that have been scrutinized by experts. What the experts found were flat out lies to instigate possible conflicts. Had the cables not been released, that disinfo could have ignited. I'm not going to do the homework for you. If you choose to not delve into the cables, that's your business.

Why is this the answer I get from WL supporters all the time. You want to send me on a wild goose chase...when you have just claimed you have knowledge of these "issues" that they have brought to light.

Give me an example...believe me...I won't hold my breath.

How about the number of civilian casualties in the Iraq war?

So give us the information already and quit fudging it WIKILEAKS is censoring DELETING, all for wikileaks own agenda...

The point is if INTELLIGENCE agencies can see the contents, it's whether or not the PUBLIC gets to see the contents. WE SHOULD SEE THE CONTENTS

Just because the documents are there does not make them real....

Any INTELLIGENT use of said information would actually include DISCLOSING the contents of the file to concerned parties. LIKE US MAYBE!!!???

reply to post by MrXYZ

Like Indian police officers torturing people in prison. Or US forces not really giving a crap about civilian deaths because they don't have to disclose that figure even though they know. Or banks screwing all of us over which should come out in the next banking cables.

Concerning the Indian torture...US diplomats knew, were being briefed and were "concerned". What the cables don't tell you is what they were trying to do about it...do you think that means they were doing nothing? What did you want them to do...come out and yell to the world that there are these allegations? That isn't exactly how diplomacy works...that is a good way to get your diplomats kicked out of a country.

Everyone already knew that US forces don't have to disclose the figure for civilian deaths...so there is no surprise that they did know and didn't disclose. No crime being commited here...everyone already knew they didn't have to disclose that number. If you have an issue with that policy...work to change it.

Banks...good lord I'm tired of hearing people cry about the banks. THE BANK CAN'T "SCREW YOU OVER" IF YOU DON"T VOLUNTARILLY DO BUSINESS WITH THEM. I don't get screwed over by banks...becasue I actually read any contract I'm getting into and loans I'm taking out. I read them...I have my lawyer read them...I cover myself. If individuals don't do that...don't cry about it.


Tell me...what is your perfect world situation? You agree that governments do need some secrets. But you also seem like you don't think governments should regulate themselves on those secrets. HOW in the world are you going to have an outside source regulate "secrets" without exposing all your "secrets"???

You can't have it both ways...which is why I am calling WL and their supporters hypocrits. You hate that the government censors information to protect secrets...but you are ok with another organization censoring that same information...and you assume it is to "protect peoples lives"...or maybe it is to form a certain agenda WL is trying to push. Who knows?

Originally posted by thecinic
So give us the information already and quit fudging it WIKILEAKS is censoring DELETING, all for wikileaks own agenda...

The point is if INTELLIGENCE agencies can see the contents, it's whether or not the PUBLIC gets to see the contents. WE SHOULD SEE THE CONTENTS

Just because the documents are there does not make them real....

Any INTELLIGENT use of said information would actually include DISCLOSING the contents of the file to concerned parties. LIKE US MAYBE!!!???

Yeah, right??!! # the people who could die in the process, let's not waste time making sure no lives are endangered when posting information. I want my information now, not yesterday...and I don't care about innocent lives.

*Sarcasm mode off*

You just keep on repeating your ridiculous statements without ever discussing with people. There's a good reason WL censors some information as others have posted numerous times, but you obviously ignore facts you don't wanna hear.

At least you're entertaining, like an angry kid

reply to post by pforkp


Sorry man... not getting involved. Thanks for pointing that stuff out, but I made my 'conclusion' long before this post ever showed up, so I'm not really jumping anywhere. I've been taking everything Assange has been leaking with a pinch of salt. The ridiculous amount of media attention always brings up red flags for me.

On the other hand, though, and I'm just giving my honest opinion, this post has dis-info written all over it. The timing seems way too convenient for me, which is why, as I said in my initial post, that I'm "leaving it at that". I just got that vibe from it, that's all, which is why I didn't bother reading everything. I'm tired of seeing posts about Wikileaks doing this, or Assange doing that. I'd prefer to discuss the cables themselves.

I'm just tired of these conspiracies, within conspiracies, within conspiracies. It's almost as bad as Inception! lol! It just plants more doubt everywhere, which is a pretty potent weapon at keeping anything from ever seeing the light of truth.

Anyway, that's all I've got to say.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Glad you're good with money, me too, I worked in real estate for a bank for years. But the fact remains, they gambled with OUR money and lost..and then had to be bailed out by YOU, the tax payer. I don't really see how you can not feel screwed over by banks when your tax payer money was used to pay their gambling addiction

And the difference between WL and governments censoring things is that governments do it out of SELF-INTEREST...while it's hard to claim given WL does it out of self-interest given that their spokesperson is taking a HUGE risk and just spent days in jail. They also managed to spit pretty much in every country's face, hardly a thing you'd do out of self-interest.

reply to post by pforkp


Moreover, looks like the claims posted in this thread might be based on fabricated data:

(from the same source page on Cryptome

A2 sends: I am curious about 'A sends' on cryptome.org... It is stated by A that 'There were 13 cables deleted from WL cablegate site (e.g.: #09LONDON1385).' The latter cable is a bad example because I downloaded the most recent archive of the cables from www.wikileaks.ch... (a file called cablegate-201012161015.7z) and the cable #09LONDON1385 is in there, and it is also on the 'Cable Viewer' www.wikileaks.ch... and also it is not one of the missing or redacted cables that are mentioned on the site that A links to: www.mein-parteibuch.org.nyud.net...

The plot thickens... smells like manipulation.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


warisacrime.org...

The bottom line is there was no evidence NK sold 19 missiles to Iran. Yet US diplomats were pushing the claim to hype up hysteria. This also highlights the MSMs shenanigans in furthering the disinfo.

Had the cable not been released and poured over by experts, how long before we saw another Iraq WMD equivalent? This is checks and balances at work!

reply to post by MrXYZ

How about the number of civilian casualties in the Iraq war?

What about it?

We knew that around 60,000 civilians died...now we know (or at least from one analysis we THINK we know) that 15,000 more civilians died. This is an accounting issue...not a OMG they are hiding huge amounts of information from use issue.

It wasn't like the government was trying to say "No civilians have died"...and then this came out. Another thing the "leaks" don't show is, is HOW those civilians died. Were they from our side...or from insurgents???


I really don't see the earth shattering nature of finding more information...and there is no evidence at all that the US wouldn't have eventually adjusted their numbers. Like you said...it's a lot of information to go through.

Originally posted by Echtelion
reply to post by pforkp

 

Moreover, looks like the claims posted in this thread might be based on fabricated data:

(from the same source page on Cryptome

A2 sends: I am curious about 'A sends' on cryptome.org... It is stated by A that 'There were 13 cables deleted from WL cablegate site (e.g.: #09LONDON1385).' The latter cable is a bad example because I downloaded the most recent archive of the cables from www.wikileaks.ch... (a file called cablegate-201012161015.7z) and the cable #09LONDON1385 is in there, and it is also on the 'Cable Viewer' www.wikileaks.ch... and also it is not one of the missing or redacted cables that are mentioned on the site that A links to: www.mein-parteibuch.org.nyud.net...

Ignorance denied? The plot thickens... smells like manipulation.

I doubt the people complaining about the cables actually bothered reading the actual cables. They're getting their dumbed-down wrong information from some biased (BBC, FOX, etc.) media. They hear "censorship" and automatically hop on the bandwaggon without even looking at the facts.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


So if the government knew about those 15,000 deaths (!!!), why not come out with it? It's relevant info and I think calling 15,000 additional deaths an "accounting error" is disgraceful and kinda shows you spit on those 15,000 dead people's grave.

reply to post by Cablespider

The bottom line is there was no evidence NK sold 19 missiles to Iran. Yet US diplomats were pushing the claim to hype up hysteria. This also highlights the MSMs shenanigans in furthering the disinfo.

Had the cables not been released and poured over by experts, how long before we saw another Iraq WMD equivalent?

No...the bottom line is that the cable showed that Russia didn't think there was any evidence. Hmmm...Russia trying to hide the fact that their technology is being sold to Iran through NK...yeah...that seems credible.


YOU are guilty of the exact same thing you are claiming the MSM is doing...taking a partial part of the story...and making your own assumptions. The NY Times article went off of US intelligence...do you think they should of gone off of Russian intelligence instead of US intelligence? You on the other hand are only going off of Russian intelligence and 100% discounting the US intelligence. The "intelligence" game isn't an exact science...do you think they just go up and ask Iran if they have these missiles and then believe them?

But hey...if believing only the information that backs up your world view works for you...great.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

So if the government knew about those 15,000 deaths (!!!), why not come out with it? It's relevant info and I think calling 15,000 additional deaths an "accounting error" is disgraceful and kinda shows you spit on those 15,000 dead people's grave.

Sorry...but you aren't going to "guilt" me into changing my position. It is an acconting error...being that there are more deaths that aren't accounted for...it is not disgraceful to call a spade a spade.

I don't know why the government didn't update their casualty counts in a time frame that is acceptable to you...do you know for a fact that they weren't going to? DId the cables say "Please hide the fact that these civilians died."? No...it didn't...it was REPORTING the deaths, making them KNOWN. Remember, these cables weren't even top secret or anything...they weren't really trying to "hide" these deaths.

You want immediate action and accounting from the government...and yet you have admitted in previous post how much information there is to pour over...and this is just the cables that Manning stole...not ALL cables that people have to go through to get this information.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Many eyes were on that ball....not just Russian. Independent experts from around the world were pouring over that claim. I gave you an example and you still refuse to acknowledge it. It shows the US lying and the media complicit in helping further that lie. That's the main issue.

And using a report from a German newspaper is not intelligence gathering.

reply to post by MrXYZ

Glad you're good with money, me too, I worked in real estate for a bank for years. But the fact remains, they gambled with OUR money and lost..and then had to be bailed out by YOU, the tax payer. I don't really see how you can not feel screwed over by banks when your tax payer money was used to pay their gambling addiction

They give me a loan when I need it....I give them a loan when they need it. They have to pay the money back.

I don't see the issue.