Concerning Bill Schnoebelen

The man is a fraud plain and simple.

He is a parasite feeding off the gullible and weak-minded.

Period.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by kallisti36

 

no, my problem is being a roman catholic, a mason, a hard core satanist, and a vampire all at the same time. I just keep thinking conflict of interest.

I thought you were looking for a discussion so I will bow out as you have your mind made up.

Bill explained in his videos that he pursued the path of Satanism because he wanted to be "like Christ" and he thought that Satan and Jesus were 2 halves of the same person, like the Freemasons claim.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Bill explained in his videos that he pursued the path of Satanism because he wanted to be "like Christ" and he thought that Satan and Jesus were 2 halves of the same person, like the Freemasons claim.

Freemasons make no such claim about either the nature of Christ nor the nature of Satan. Neither are mentioned at all in our rituals.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


so you believe him about his experiences in all these occult groups?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Bill explained in his videos that he pursued the path of Satanism because he wanted to be "like Christ" and he thought that Satan and Jesus were 2 halves of the same person, like the Freemasons claim.

Care to show us where exactly our rituals state that we believe Jesus and Satan are one in the same?

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

so you believe him about his experiences in all these occult groups?

Is there a reason not to believe him, besides that it sounds out of the ordinary?

Originally posted by KSigMason

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Bill explained in his videos that he pursued the path of Satanism because he wanted to be "like Christ" and he thought that Satan and Jesus were 2 halves of the same person, like the Freemasons claim.

Care to show us where exactly our rituals state that we believe Jesus and Satan are one in the same?

Not one in the same, 2 halves of God, if you will.

Here's a composite biography of Bill from what he's revealed in his videos:


He didn't claim that he was head of Freemasons, but a high-level Druid in Wisconsin ("one of the most powerful warlocks on the west coast of Lake Michigan"). He was born in a well-to-do farm town in Iowa. While studying to become a Catholic priest, he was told that in order to be Christ-like he had to become a wiccan. He was instructed in Wicca by a high witch at a commune near Haddyville, Arkansas (where UFOs could be seen most evenings). After learning witchcraft, he was then told that his next step was to become a Satanist.

He moved to Illinois where he and his wife were married in a wiccan wedding with 200 witches present. He raised money for the Catholic Church by giving yoga classes, astrology readings and tarot card readings before being expelled. He was told that he needed to become a Catholic priest and join the Freemasons before joining the Chuch Of Satan. He wasn't a regular ordained Catholic priest, rather he was a consecrated bishop in the Neo-Pythagorean Gnostic Church (the "Ecclesia Gnostica Spiritualis"), which is "liberal Catholic." In order to advance in the Gnostic Church he had to choose to become either a vampire or a werewolf. He chose to become a vampire, and went to a Russian church in Chicago (the same church?) to do so. He studied with a group that taught that the Twelve Disciples literally drank the blood of Christ. For a year he lived by feeding blood from women; the only solid food he ate were 2 or 3 communion hosts every week. He also became addicted to coc aine. He moved to Wisconsin to teach wicca when he couldn't find a job in Chicago.

A high-level witch introduced him to Freemasonry, and he was sponsored by a man named "Eli." He was initiated in 1975 at Lodge #122 in Hartland then raised in 1976 and joined the York Rite. He later transfered to Kilbourne Lodge #3 in Milwaukee. One evening he had an encounter with alien beings that quizzed him about Masonic ritual. He became a Shriner in 1980. He joined the Scottish Rite, and the Rite of Memphis-Mitzraim, then the Eastern Star so that his wife could accompany him to lodge meetings. He spent altogether 9 years in Masonry. He was able to study esoteric Masonry after rising the top of both the York and Scottish Rites. His membership card from the Ancient Rite of Memphis-Misraim has the name "Ecclesia Gnostica Spiritualis" and is written in French. He claims that he first learned of the Rite of Memphis-Misraim through a spirit guide. His spirit guide also taught him many other things that cause other Masons to consider him to be worthy of access to secrets. He knew of only 5 or 6 other Masons who practiced Satanism. One was a worshipful master who worked his way "through the chairs," was a devoted scholar of Manly P. Hall and harbored a passionate hatred of God and religion. Bill also claims that 40,000 Southern Baptists are Freemasons.

A check he sent to the Church of Satan was mailed back to him with a note saying that the teller would be praying for him. Within the next week, he lost his magic powers, he lost his job, he, his wife and his dog fell ill, and he was visited by missionaries.

He moved to Utah and joined the Mormon Church because it was made "for witches, by witches." He talks about Satanic groupies bringing him funny Christian comics with scribbled-in "commentary" and some of the teeth blacked out. He ended up speaking the "sinners' prayer" at the back of the comics when he wanted to leave the LDS.

This is The Light Behind Masonry:
www.youtube.com...
This is an update of Exposing the Illuminati From Within:
www.youtube.com...
You can also view the original VHS recording:
www.youtube.com...

The Google Video (which I've downloaded then deleted ) seems to be dead

He makes a few suspicious hand gestures, such as pointing his hands downward. He also seems to be growing a long beard and wearing a skull cap, although he didn't for the first video.


The due guard of a Master Mason that Schnoebelen demonstrates is correct, but he does not show all of the signs of Craft Masonry, or even of the Master Mason degree. The name he gave for the 33rd degree was slightly off, but you can find the correct name on the Internet. In the VHS edition of Exposing The Illuminati he presents a 33rd degree certificate, but in the DVD version he only presents a 32nd degree certificate. According to his personal experience, the Illuminati is fractioned, so that each member knows only two other members. To speak with other members, you must pass the message through those people you know directly. He also describes archaeometry as "occult Freemasonry," where you learn how to build suitable habitations for demon spirits.

His description of the "Traveling Man" exchange is not correct.

Tubalcain is claimed to be the "first Mason."
These kinds of claims appear in Masonic books. "Tubalcain" is the password for the of the Master Mason's degree (Mahabone is the substitue real word). The emblem is literally two balls and a cane (which looks more like an upside-down hockey stick, or the Hebrew letter "resh"). Another metalworker myth was that of Kosar-wa-Khasis, an assistant to Ba'al in Canaanite mythology. He made weapons, furniture and a palace for Ba'al using the same materials which were supposedly used to make Solomon's Temple.

Nimrod is also one of the first Masons.
These kinds of claims also appear in Masonic books. They are to cover up the fact that Freemasonry is mostly unoriginal and borrows from older tradition, and does not inherit or create anything. Nimrod is an evil king in the Bible who built the Tower of Babel.

The Masons claim to be inheritors from the Dionysian Artificers, the Cult of Noah, the Elysians, the Gnostics and the Knights Templars.
These groups of people were not Freemasons, per se, as the name did not exist until much later. The truth is that the Masons have copied many different legends and incorporated them into Masonry, then claimed some sort of heritage or lineage afterwards. After the Knights Templars were officially disbanded in the 14th century, many knock-off groups sprung up, consisting mostly of disillusioned an egotistical nobles, statemen and merchants. My suspicion is that the "Poor Knights" were actually destitute nobles engaged in role-playing.

The All-Seeing Eye represents Lucifer.
Not really. It represents different things to different people, but to the Freemasons it does not represent the Christian, Jewish or Muslim God.

Solomon's Temple faced the west while a Masonic temple faces the east.
The Western Wall in Israel (said to be the western wall of Solomon's Temple) has no entrance, so one can only conclude that the entrance was at the east wing, which is opposite to most Masonic temples.

Masonry claims to be derived from fertility cults.
You don't need to look further than the Masonic temples adorned with ancient Egyptian non-Christian symbols.

The Mother Lodge was established on July 24, 1717
According to records, it was actually June 24.

William Morgan's widow became one of Joseph Smith's four wives.
This is true.

William Morgan had stones put in his pockets and was thrown over the Niagara River.
No one knows this for sure. According to a confession by Henry Valance, weights were attached to a cord, which was tied around William Morgan's torso. A description of his confession was published in chapter 2 of The Character, Claims and Practical Workings of Freemasonry by Charles G. Finney.

Many politicians, judges, lawyers and police officers are Freemasons.
This is true, despite denials by Freemasons. The phrase "the boys in blue" is a double-entendre.

Masons must warn each other of approaching danger, Masons must cover up crimes, Royal Arch Masons must cover up murderous and treasonous crimes.
This is all true, it's mention specifically in the oaths. The oaths also state that Masons must protect each other's wives and daughters.

Jack the Ripper was a Freemason.
This point is illustrated in the movie From Hell. The details of some of the murders are available on the Internet. Schnoebelen echoed a conspiracy theory published by Stephen Knight that all of the murder victims knew of a wedding between Prince Albert Victor and a Roman Catholic woman named Annie Crook. Of course, people who attempt to "debunk" this conspiracy theory also explain away Jack the Ripper as a deranged solitary lunatic. The editors of the Wikipedia page for Stephen Knight found it fitting to mention that he developed a brain tumor.

George Washington was not a committed Freemason.
Schnoebelen explains that Washington only became a Freemason because it was required of high-ranking officers in the British army. It is true that after retiring from his presidency he told of his fear of Illuminism being imported to America. However, he used the word "Jacobin," not "Illuminati."

Harry Truman was a Freemason.
This is true, but he is no darling. He, along with FDR, is consistently ranked among the worst presidents in US history. He's the president who dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki near the end of World War II, apparently in an effort to break a stalemate. His decision was actually a compromise with General McArthur, who wanted to drop 27 atomic bombs (this fact is conspicuously absent from Wikipedia).

Ronald Reagan was a Freemason.
As far as I know, he was an honorary Shriner. If he became a Shriner despite not being raised a Master Mason, then it is obvious that the Freemasons don't care as much about "going by the book" as manipulating the political machine.

Manly P. Hall's The Secret Teachings of All Ages is in virtually every Masonic library
I wouldn't know myself, but this would be fascinating since the Masons deny its validity. Bill Schnoebelen alo mentions that he was the most highly-honored Freemason of the 20th century, and that the Scottish Rite Journal sung its praises for him when he died. This is quite surprising for a man whose books have been invalidated.

Freemasonry is a religion, because it offers, among other things, a death ritual
As part of the ritual the Masons say, "... we commit his soul to the Celestial Lodge Above."

The 19th degree ritual features a speaking Devil role and a pronouncement that the initiate is a priest of the order of Melchizedek.
I'm not sure whether there's a Devil role, but there are three "brothers" who describe (some of the events of) the Apocalypse to the candidate. The three brothers then offer the candidate to join them into the light. It is true that the candidate is named "a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." The sign for the 19th degree (Grand Pontiff) is to point forward with the last three fingers perpendicular (pointing downward).

The password of the 17th degree is "Abbadon" which is another name for the Devil.
The password in the 17th degree is Jubulum (one of the three ruffians) and the real word is Abaddon, which is described in Revelation 9:11 as the angel of the bottomless pit. How the Jevhovah's Witnesses could infer that to mean Jesus is one of those life's questions, I guess. Much more disturbing stuff happens in the 17th degree. The candidate takes an oath to remain obedient to the "all degrees beyond this but particularly the Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret (32nd degree) and the Grand Sovereign Inspector General (33rd degree)." Physical blood is drawn from the candidate as a "price" for the blood-soaked robes of the Ancients who have passed through great tribulation. The Senior Warden then announces that the candidate has "spilled his blood to acquire knowledge of our mysteries and shrunk not from the trial." The Worshipful Master plays the role of the angel in Revelation chapters 5-8. He asks if any "mortal" is worthy to open the book with seven seals (the word "human" is used in the Bible). Everyone looks downward and lets out a sigh (in mimicry of Revelation 5:1-5). The All Puissant then opens the seals himself. The meaning of the seals is changed to fit with Masonic propaganda.
1. First seal:
Revelation 6:1-2 - "And I saw when the Lamb [who is described earlier] opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."
Masonry - The All Puissant hands a bow, a set of arrows and a crown to the youngest Knight and says, "Depart and continue the quest."

2. Second seal:
Revelation 6:3-4 - "And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. 4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."
Masonry - The All Puissant hands a sword to the next oldest Knight and says, "Go and destroy peace among the profane and wicked brethren that they may appear in our Council."

3. Third seal:
Revelation 6:5-6 - "And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."
Masonry - The All Puissant takes out a balance and hands it to the next oldest Knight and says, "Dispense rigid justice to the profane and wicked brethren."

4. Fourth seal:
Revelation 6:7-8 - "And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."
Masonry - The All Puissant takes out a human skull and hands it to the next oldest Knight and says, "Go and convince the wicked that death is the reward for their guilt."

5. FIfth seal:
Revelation 6:9-11 - "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
Masonry - The All Puissant removes a blood-stained cloth and hands it to the next oldest Knight and says, "When will the time arrive that we shall revenge and punish the profane and wicked who have destroyed so many of their brethren by false accusations?"

6. Sixth seal:
Revelation 6:12-7:17 - "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. ...
7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand ...
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
Masonry - The All Puissant opens the sixth seal, then the Sun is darkened and the Moon is stained with blood.

7. Seventh seal:
Revelation 8:1-11:19 - "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne ... 6A nd the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound ..."
Masonry - The All Puissant takes out incense and a vase with seven trumpets and hands them to the next oldest Knight. The Knight gives the trumpets to seven Venerable Ancients.

In the Mystic Shrine, the candidate swears on Allah -- the god of my forefathers -- and the Qur'an.
This is true.

The Statue of Liberty was a gift from French Freemasons to American Freemasons.
Not exactly -- it was paid for by American citizens.

Freemasonry has an inner circle.
Bill says that, yes, there are Masons who don't know the secret. The ones who do either have "hereditary bloodline or preparation," already come to Masonry with an occult background, or are perceived as being wealthy, powerful or of the right "temperament." They are taught Jesuit meditation and mind control techniques, Tantric yoga, formulas for making hallucinogens, and "archaeometry," which Bill described as "occult Masonry." He defines archaeometry as building temples that are suitable for habitation by demon spirits.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

so you believe him about his experiences in all these occult groups?

Is there a reason not to believe him, besides that it sounds out of the ordinary?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0d1a5dd7abdc.jpg[/atsimg]

yea, I'd say there are a few reasons right here.

Besides the fact that he was never a 33rd degree mason, And in fact, I have yet to verify that he was a mason at all. I know the guy he claims raised him exists and was master of that lodge at the time, but there is no record of Bill being in the lodge at all. I am waiting for the secretary to get back with me about a more complete search. He is a fraud, and a liar selling lies to anybody who would believe him.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Physical blood is drawn from the candidate as a "price" for the blood-soaked robes of the Ancients who have passed through great tribulation. The Senior Warden then announces that the candidate has "spilled his blood to acquire knowledge of our mysteries and shrunk not from the trial."

...His right arm is bandaged and he is made to believe that an incision has been made in his arm by pouring red-colored tepid water over his arm in a small stream. Under no circumstances is the Candidate to be actually cut.

17°, p 22, lines 25-27.

In order to advance in the Gnostic Church he had to choose to become either a vampire or a werewolf.

Uh huh...

For a year he lived by feeding blood from women; the only solid food he ate were 2 or 3 communion hosts every week. He also became addicted to coc aine.

And you believe him why?

One evening he had an encounter with alien beings that quizzed him about Masonic ritual.

Uh huh...

He joined the Scottish Rite, and the Rite of Memphis-Mitzraim, then the Eastern Star so that his wife could accompany him to lodge meetings.

Memphis and Mizraim is not regular Freemasonry. And your wife cannot attend Lodge meetings if she is in the OES. The OES is composed of Chapters and women can only attend those meetings.

He was able to study esoteric Masonry after rising the top of both the York and Scottish Rites.

What positions/titles did he hold in the York Rite?

His membership card from the Ancient Rite of Memphis-Misraim has the name "Ecclesia Gnostica Spiritualis" and is written in French.

He claims that he first learned of the Rite of Memphis-Misraim through a spirit guide. His spirit guide also taught him many other things that cause other Masons to consider him to be worthy of access to secrets.

The Rite of Memphis-Mizraim isn't a recognized body of Freemasonry.

If you believe him, you deserved to be fooled.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by kallisti36

 

no, my problem is being a roman catholic, a mason, a hard core satanist, and a vampire all at the same time. I just keep thinking conflict of interest.

No I think you missed out the key point which was that the nature of the organisation that he joined was involved in "Esoteric Voudoun" aand was headed by a guy who intended to master all major systems of magic hence included (Breathe, esoteric martinism, satanism , sex magic, vampirism ( esoteric) freemasonry etc etc blah blah.

That organisation goes by a number of names but has had one head and was embraced and rejected by Kenneth Grant ot the Typhonian OTO.

Rgds

T

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

so you believe him about his experiences in all these occult groups?

Is there a reason not to believe him, besides that it sounds out of the ordinary?

files.abovetopsecret.com...

yea, I'd say there are a few reasons right here.

Besides the fact that he was never a 33rd degree mason, And in fact, I have yet to verify that he was a mason at all. I know the guy he claims raised him exists and was master of that lodge at the time, but there is no record of Bill being in the lodge at all. I am waiting for the secretary to get back with me about a more complete search. He is a fraud, and a liar selling lies to anybody who would believe him.

Apparently, he didn't have to be a 33rd degree Mason to learn the secrets, even though he produced a certificate.

He seems to know a heck of a lot more about the Illuminati than any of the Masons on ATS. It would be a trivial matter for him to move through the ranks of Freemasonry.

That master you mentioned, do you know whether Bill's allegations are true (hated religion and God with a passion) ?

Originally posted by KSigMason

In order to advance in the Gnostic Church he had to choose to become either a vampire or a werewolf.

Uh huh...

That's what he said, take it or leave it. Makes you wonder where the Twilight books come from.

For a year he lived by feeding blood from women; the only solid food he ate were 2 or 3 communion hosts every week. He also became addicted to coc aine.

And you believe him why?

Ad-hominem attack...

One evening he had an encounter with alien beings that quizzed him about Masonic ritual.

Uh huh...

It could have been a lucid dream.

He joined the Scottish Rite, and the Rite of Memphis-Mitzraim, then the Eastern Star so that his wife could accompany him to lodge meetings.

Memphis and Mizraim is not regular Freemasonry.

The Scottish Rite is.

And your wife cannot attend Lodge meetings if she is in the OES. The OES is composed of Chapters and women can only attend those meetings.

You know what I meant.

He was able to study esoteric Masonry after rising the top of both the York and Scottish Rites.

What positions/titles did he hold in the York Rite?

He doesn't claim that he was ever Worshipful Master, but it seems like he memorized the ritual.

His membership card from the Ancient Rite of Memphis-Misraim has the name "Ecclesia Gnostica Spiritualis" and is written in French.

He claims that he first learned of the Rite of Memphis-Misraim through a spirit guide. His spirit guide also taught him many other things that cause other Masons to consider him to be worthy of access to secrets.

The Rite of Memphis-Mizraim isn't a recognized body of Freemasonry.

He also held Scottish Rite degrees.

If you believe him, you deserved to be fooled.

Why is that?

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Bill explained in his videos that he pursued the path of Satanism because he wanted to be "like Christ" and he thought that Satan and Jesus were 2 halves of the same person, like the Freemasons claim.

Freemasons make no such claim about either the nature of Christ nor the nature of Satan. Neither are mentioned at all in our rituals.

So every claim that a Freemason makes is incorporated into ritual?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Apparently, he didn't have to be a 33rd degree Mason to learn the secrets, even though he produced a certificate.

He can make up anything he wants and tell his viewers that they are the "secrets", the only ones who can truly discount him are 33rd degree masons and he and his blind followers will just say that they are lying to protect the secrets. As usual.

He seems to know a heck of a lot more about the Illuminati than any of the Masons on ATS. It would be a trivial matter for him to move through the ranks of Freemasonry.

This is the same thing. He claims to know all about a group that hasn't existed in hundreds of years, yet he knows the truth about them and he was in charge of them before Jack Chick saved him. He could tell you they dressed up in prom dresses and danced the night away at each meeting. The more fantastic, the better for his followers.

That master you mentioned, do you know whether Bill's allegations are true (hated religion and God with a passion) ?

I didn't speak directly to him, but a secretary who knows him quite well. He just said that that man was the master of that lodge about that time. He later verified that date. Our records are kept pretty well. At each lodge meeting there is a sign in book and the secretary keeps minutes of the meeting. The purpose for each meeting is stated in the minutes. For example, "the purpose for this emergent communication was called for passing brother Schnoebelen to the degree of Fellowcraft". The problem is that the man I spoke with has yet to see Bill name on anything from that time. If he could find one paper that had his name on it, then we could just accept him as a true mason. But if we cannot find anything at all, it kind of looks like he made a bunch of this stuff up. As has been said, his stories about masonry are fantasy.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
That's what he said, take it or leave it. Makes you wonder where the Twilight books come from.

I'm going to leave it, but before I do I do want to say something in regards to Twilight...the author is Mormon.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Ad-hominem attack...

No, just a question you don't seem to want to answer.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
It could have been a lucid dream.

Brought upon by a coc aine high?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
The Scottish Rite is.

But not the Rites of Memphis-Mizraim.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
You know what I meant.

I'm all about accuracy so as not to paint a picture for someone who doesn't know the difference.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
He doesn't claim that he was ever Worshipful Master, but it seems like he memorized the ritual.

Well the top of the York Rite doesn't stop at State level, it goes to national levels and international levels. So being at the top of the York Rite meant he was head of General Grand Chapter of Royal Arch Masons International, General Grand Council of Cryptic Masons International, or the Grand Encampment, Knights Templar, USA. And if he was a man of the ritual did he get invited to the York Rite College or any of the other invitation only bodies within the York Rite?

As to the Scottish Rite, what title did he attain there? KCCH? 33rd?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
He also held Scottish Rite degrees.

Just because he claims to be a member of both doesn't mean he was or that it means the Rites of Memphis-Mizraim are legitimate because the Scottish Rite is.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Why is that?

Because he is lying to you.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Masonry claims to be derived from fertility cults.
You don't need to look further than the Masonic temples adorned with ancient Egyptian non-Christian symbols.

Not all Masonic Lodges are adorned with Egyptian symbols. Freemasonry, in the York Rite, is filled with Christan symbolism.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Jack the Ripper was a Freemason.
This point is illustrated in the movie From Hell. The details of some of the murders are available on the Internet. Schnoebelen echoed a conspiracy theory published by Stephen Knight that all of the murder victims knew of a wedding between Prince Albert Victor and a Roman Catholic woman named Annie Crook. Of course, people who attempt to "debunk" this conspiracy theory also explain away Jack the Ripper as a deranged solitary lunatic. The editors of the Wikipedia page for Stephen Knight found it fitting to mention that he developed a brain tumor.

No one knows who exactly Jack the Ripper was.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
George Washington was not a committed Freemason.
Schnoebelen explains that Washington only became a Freemason because it was required of high-ranking officers in the British army. It is true that after retiring from his presidency he told of his fear of Illuminism being imported to America. However, he used the word "Jacobin," not "Illuminati."

5. Didn't George Washington renounce Freemasonry?

No.

George Washington remained a member of the Craft from his initiation into the Lodge at Fredericksburg, Virginia No. 4 on November 4, 1752 until the day he died on December 14, 1799, when he then, at his widow’s request, received a masonic funeral. George Washington’s papers are available online at memory.loc.gov/ammem/gwhtml/gwhome.html

This hoax got its start in 1837 with the publication of a tract by Joseph Ritner, Governor of Pennsylvania. Although easily debunked, it was reprinted by E. A. Cook & Co., Chicago, in 1877, shortly after Prof. Charles Albert Blanchard (1848-1925), a founder and first lecturer of the National Christian Association published a rewriting of the same story entitled Was Washington a Freemason?

SOURCE

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Ronald Reagan was a Freemason.
As far as I know, he was an honorary Shriner. If he became a Shriner despite not being raised a Master Mason, then it is obvious that the Freemasons don't care as much about "going by the book" as manipulating the political machine.

Ronald Reagan was never a Freemason. The last US President to be a Master Mason was Gerald Ford.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Freemasonry has an inner circle.
Bill says that, yes, there are Masons who don't know the secret. The ones who do either have "hereditary bloodline or preparation," already come to Masonry with an occult background, or are perceived as being wealthy, powerful or of the right "temperament." They are taught Jesuit meditation and mind control techniques, Tantric yoga, formulas for making hallucinogens, and "archaeometry," which Bill described as "occult Masonry." He defines archaeometry as building temples that are suitable for habitation by demon spirits.

Bill says a lot that is untrue. This is one of them.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Apparently, he didn't have to be a 33rd degree Mason to learn the secrets, even though he produced a certificate.

He can make up anything he wants and tell his viewers that they are the "secrets", the only ones who can truly discount him are 33rd degree masons and he and his blind followers will just say that they are lying to protect the secrets. As usual.

Just as you are accusing him of lying.

He seems to know a heck of a lot more about the Illuminati than any of the Masons on ATS. It would be a trivial matter for him to move through the ranks of Freemasonry.

This is the same thing. He claims to know all about a group that hasn't existed in hundreds of years, yet he knows the truth about them and he was in charge of them before Jack Chick saved him. He could tell you they dressed up in prom dresses and danced the night away at each meeting. The more fantastic, the better for his followers.

Which group is that?

He could, but he doesn't.

That master you mentioned, do you know whether Bill's allegations are true (hated religion and God with a passion) ?

I didn't speak directly to him, but a secretary who knows him quite well. He just said that that man was the master of that lodge about that time. He later verified that date. Our records are kept pretty well. At each lodge meeting there is a sign in book and the secretary keeps minutes of the meeting. The purpose for each meeting is stated in the minutes. For example, "the purpose for this emergent communication was called for passing brother Schnoebelen to the degree of Fellowcraft". The problem is that the man I spoke with has yet to see Bill name on anything from that time. If he could find one paper that had his name on it, then we could just accept him as a true mason. But if we cannot find anything at all, it kind of looks like he made a bunch of this stuff up. As has been said, his stories about masonry are fantasy.

That is hearsay. I'm more apt to believe Bill, who has actually provided something of substance. Even if it's inaccurate or disinformation, it's more than just a simple denial.