Why haven't we found aliens yet? (good read)

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Shall we assume it orbited, listened in (automatically) and was sophisticated enough to decipher our languages, based on eavesdropping on the nascent radio signals that were broadcast for the preceding ~20 years? Including, most amazing of all, knowing our (various languages, and its origins and roots) astronomical name for that particular star ("Epsilon Bootis") .... astonishing to think that its name had been transmitted often enough on the early radio programs of theat era....???

As they say... truth is stranger than fiction So these Aliens everyone talks about from highly advanced civilizations couldn't come up with a universal translator? I mean one of us mere humans conceived that idea in the 60's

Your box must be very confined, you need to get out more and exercise the brain cells. Don't forget that the Universe gives you what you ask for... if you know how to ask

reply to post by zorgon


OH, I thought about the UT. Problem is, I have to come up with an alternate term.....that one is kinda owned by Star Trek, IMO.

Anyway....like I asked, since the authors of that piece ("anomaly"?) claim specific mention of "Epsilon Bootis"....I just had to wonder how on earth??

How would "it" (if automated, even IF incredibly sophisticated A.I. or something) have the ability to get the relevance from OUR star charts and classification/naming protocols? Especially, in that era?? NO digital communication of any kind, in use by Humans.

I'm well aware of a common Science Fiction theme of the "duck blind" concept as well...but then, you must assume actual entities here, or else some other very sophisticated (and undetectable) technology, etc.

Just saying that that particular story has a lot of gaping holes in it. I could craft a lot more believable one...but, since I've read so much Science Fiction in my life, it would be hard to be "original"anymore....

Well, because you make this thread scaring the sht out of them, so they run away
seconline.

Originally posted by realitydiscovered
Because they are among us and they know everything about us.

They are a very secretive and isolated society, deeply affiliated with space and very familiar with Earth. I believe they lived under the Archuletta mesa if not still do. They left a lot of evidence before but now not as much so I am inclined to believe they left. There is no way that an alien would come out of a ship and shake hands with a news crew because they are here for biological/psychological experimentation. They experiment with us as they should do since they are insectlike beings from outerspace. Experimenting and saying hi really don't go together, lol.

reply to post by zorgon


I agree that while in this school, WE may be immersed in this program called time. But Higher Up ETs are not. They are, the ones from this Galaxy, millions of years ahead of us in technology, and in the cosmos/universe, billions, and yet, its in an eternal now infinity all at once system where everything that is, was and will be, so in a sense, there is infinite potential without even those limits, but of course those kind of adults probably don't pay very much attention to us for we would truly be like ants. Higher Ups are the ones with the remotes.

Time does not exist except as a program, a metaphor really, Infinity has no locality and no measurement, no time, etc. We do tend to prefer things broken down however.

Now what really needs to be comprehended is that for us in this program and with our limits of perception and science, akin to cavemen really, ETs with Higher Level technology, the kind that makes those crafts that grow from seeds in space look primitive as well, they are far beyond time programs. They do not operate within our perceived limits.

And the crafts that "crashed " didn't really do that. Nor does anyone have the capacity to shoot one down. It would be like ants attempting to shoot down an eagle with an ant canon.

reply to post by zorgon


Well well well indeed....a "story" is still a "story"....and a lot of creative writing seems to have been afoot...

But see the problem with you is your reading skills...

Nah. I can ascertain this "BKS" for what it is...more embellishments from true (if momentarily puzzling at first, until understood) events.

... at the bottom of the post....

.

Originally posted by zorgon
legends of the Black Knight Satellite

..........
Now I know things change on the web daily with all the youtube crap.....

Ain't THAT the truth!!

...but the stories surrounding the Black Knight Satellite were very interesting for many years... As a matter of fact it is highly likely that stories of the BKS triggered ACC's Rama.

Well....I read it, and seems that they tried (and failed) to "round-peg-in-square-hole" the story from 1928-1929 to make it "fit" with the "1960" time-frame, and "Sputnik" (which is another rather odd mistake, since Sputnik launched in 1957!).

This "BKS" in a 'polar orbit', and just, well, sounds like a lot of case of mistakes, glitches, and eventually realization of a very prosaic explanation.

As for ACC and his (wonderful) "Rama" stories. If you follow his path in life, you see that he moved to Sri Lanka sometime in 1956, and remained there for the rest of his life. (It was called "Ceylon" until 1972).

I would tend to think that living as he did, in that culture, was quite the influence for his "Rama" novels....more so than the "BKS" mythos.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by zorgon

 

He is full of horse manure. His website with his y-dna which he claims is proof, comes up with more matching hits in comparative y-dna databases than anything I'ver ever seen. If he's an alien, so are most of the men in Europe apparently. And the two men I have y-dna for are from a distant galaxy, since they have a teeny-tiny fraction of matching hits.

edit on 2010/12/15 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

I am going to have to submit that YOU haven't done any research into this. I have, and have checked every available database containing Y-DNA data. There is not a 100% match to found in the entire population of Earth! (Yes, that is a bit of an expansion ... tough!) The reality is that there are no matches in something over 200,000 Haplotypes. Since we are talking Y-DNA; it would seem reasonable that the small number we have on record is still a very cood cross-section of the Human species.

I'm not sure where you are getting the relation to European men, but, I thought I made it very clear; that there are no matches, not even "fuzzy" ones (thats "fuzzy" in the technical / computer science sense). In fact my autosomal DNA clearly indicates, Indo/African descent. Something that is NOT indicated by my phenotype.

I should probably point out, that while I do have both autosomal (CODIS) data, and Y-DNA data, that the compilation of data is not yet finished, and could be considered incomplete. But, you see, that is part of the problem trying to "prove" Extraterrestrial life ... No one seems to know what data is required, nor what the actual content should be.

I never called my data "proof", only evidence. And, I have already illustrated that it contains anomalies.

So ... you have DNA from two aliens? Care to share? It is, afterall only numbers.Course, that would be the difference here ... you have two samples purportedly from ET, but, I presume, no actual ET. Thus you data is unverifiable. Mine on the other hand comes with a living, breathing, being whose DNA can be verified at any time.

BTW, I am fully aware of the differences I've found between myself and the Human Species. I am very aware that; so far they can be explained by simple mutations (probably like the DNA samples you have). What is difficult to explain in my case is how the Y-DNA has a mutation of Haplogroup "A" (North-East Central Africa) as opposed to a much more logical group (say: "R") if I'm to be of any sort of European descent on my Father's side. Also, my terrestrial father had the family lineage traced; there is not a single black male in his line going back to somewhere around 1300.


Etharzi od Oma

Because the gov is hiding the truth i think. Maybe we are not ready for their presence...

reply to post by AlienDecendants


I see that claim a lot.

Looking at that logically....is it reasonable to assume that IF there is indeed a "presence", and is known by the "government"...then how is it that any knowledge can be "kept" from the public?

Is/are these "governments" more powerful than an alleged species that has travelled across interstellar space, to get here?

That was rhetorical....point is, the "governments" of this planet are powerless....and deluding themselves IF "they" think they're in control, if the alternative is a sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial species/group or whatever....

SO, take ALL things talked about, by ALL the various contributors in this thread, with a large salt lick......and just roll with the punches as they come. (Or, don't come....whichever).

By this point, anything "revealed" is probably going to be anti-climactic, anyway.

Oh, and there's this funny from the other day, meant to share it --- as it seems a' propos:


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/eef07e8cdb70.gif[/atsimg]

why havn't we found aliens yet?

i think becuase tech intelligence is rare. Earths been sending out a signal for 2 billion years, any et with a decent telescope would see oxygen in earths atmosphere and know its a good candidate for life. But in all that time earth has never been colonized. So we may be just too far away for them to travel here.

That doesnt explain why we have found no et artifacts while digging about on earth. No rovers or landers buried anywhere. No et sattelites in orbit around earth. Just nothing.

Simplest explanation is ET civs are rare and we're just too far away for them to send anything our way.

Originally posted by weedwhacker

 

Looking at that logically....is it reasonable to assume that IF there is indeed a "presence", and is known by the "government"...then how is it that any knowledge can be "kept" from the public?

Thats just the thing, though ... the government doesn't have to keep this knowledge from you. In the early days, UFO's / ET was turned into a modern myth. Today, most UFO cases are treated as paranormal; as if seeing a Boeing 747 was a paranormal event! At some point a machine is just a machine ... there is nothing paranormal about a machine!

Perhaps, once you all get past your mythologies, skepticism, and psudo-demands for evidence that you wouldn't be able to view anyway (we won't go into understand), you can make some progress toward real truth.

Etharzi od Oma

Originally posted by weedwhacker
as it seems a' propos:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/eef07e8cdb70.gif[/atsimg]

Ah! So you are in agreement that the government is covering it up I knew you would come around eventually

Originally posted by qalameid
reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand

 

Unless aliens have found something other than the electromagnetic spectrum to communicate, which in itself is unlikely, then radio waves would make an excellent candidate. Radio waves are technically the longest wavelengths and can travel the greatest distances, and the Earth's atmosphere happens to be transparent to a good portion of radio, which means we can easily receive them without distortion. Granted, there are a lot of radio emitters in space so it would be hard to tell what is astronomical in nature and what is artificial.

Since we have no evidence of aliens to define what means of communications they may or may not have, how exactly do you reach any conclusion of "likelyhood"? Why are aliens unlikely to find principles of physics that we don't know of? do you realize that your statement implies that we must know nearly all there is to know about physics, and that is not only untrue, but cannot possibly be true. Read up on the theorem of incompleteness.

You cannot say it is unlikely unless you also assume that our knowledge of physics is complete enough to dismiss any other possible means of communication better than radio waves.

And even if radio waves were in fact the method of choice for communication, the only civilization that would radiate substantial radiowaves would be a civilization just like us for a finite duration of time. As we get smarter we find more efficient ways to use radiowaves, and the net amount of waves leaked into deep space is lower and lower, and those waves are usually modulated with techniques that maximize entropy and make the signal increasingly undistinguishable from noise, other than to the intended receiver.

So any alien civilization similar enough to us to be a good candidate to receive their radio waves would, like us, only have used high powered narrowband waves for a finite and relatively short portion of their history. If their development was anything like us they would have then gone on to develop spread spectrum communications, optimize radiation patterns, use signal compression, basically do everything we have done for cellular phones, internet, telephony and TV today. All their "radio" would be digital (like it will be here in another decade or so) and the signals radiating into space will be increasingly hard to distinguish from noise and very low power.

But notice that this requires we make the assumption that they develop just like us. The likelyhood of this assumption can only be said to be non zero (after all, we exist, so the probability is at least one divided by some other number), but its exact value cannot be established, so anybody that says it is likely or unlikely is very narrowly focusing on human-centric ideas.

-rrr

More people have seen aliens on this earth than have seen,lets just say the 1978 wimbledon final.The 1978 wimbledon final never happened either i guees you are saying.People report seeing aliens entering and leaving there crafts every day.It is all over the news.So i really dont know what to make of this whole topic.I think the question is what can we do to stop them and the hidden agenda and constant abductions against our will.

reply to post by rickyrrr


You make a good point but I think you misunderstood the gist of my post. My statement implies that an alien civilization is likely, at least at some point in it's lifetime, to use light to communicate. I simply said that radio is an excellent candidate, and this is seen by the fact that a lot of our attempts to search for extraterrestrial communication involves analyzing radio signals. What you said doesn't change the fact that they would still use light, regardless of form.

You could take it as, it is LESS likely that aliens would be using telepathy or some other form of communication that is completely unheard of. Is that human-centric? Yes, but to say that it can be proven otherwise is also a stretch - it's speculation. And if we decide to stray far from the limits of our understanding, then anyone could claim or posit anything they'd like.

If the government is not already covering up the proof of Extra Terrestrial life, Why would they if in the future such a discovery is made? I mean youd think they would wanna get all the hippies off their case with that so they can resume focus on whats really going down at 'Area 51' knowing that the world would understand keeping national secret weaponry out of the wrong hands.
What if they would have made public the Roswell incident in 1947 when it occured? By now it would be as widely accepted as the Holocaust! I think IF they are hiding the truth about ETs and have been this entire time, its too late to come clean! Because why would the government want to hear every hippie in the world say "I TOLD YOU SO!!" and then never again be trusted by the (very few) people that defended them in the first place!

either way its going to be a very long time or under worse circumstances that we will come to know the truth!