Why haven't we found aliens yet? (good read)

The biggest factor is TIME...

Chances are, there could be TONS of ET signals in the Universe....but they are either still on their way here, or have long since come and gone....

We have to be in the right window, parallel (when factoring in signal travel time) to another civilization, and using similar waves, so we'd even recognize it as communication.

This is a real crap-shoot. It's like trying to hit a speeding bullet, with another speeding bullet, and oh, by the way, we're not going to tell you if we shot the bullet yesterday, or if we'll shoot it tomorrow.....

Think about an alien civilization just 100 light years away that first broadcasted 50 years ago. That first signal is still only halfway here. Another civilization just 100 light years away (different direction, and evolved further back), their last signal was 200 years ago, so it got here about 100 years ago (before anyone was really looking)....

And, universally speaking, these would be our next door neighbors. Once you get even further away (and even further back in time, from a travel sense), it becomes even more unlikely we'll meet in that window.

Originally posted by antar
God I have seen them in real life, I KNOW that they exist. I am not the only one, yet these kinds of papers simply make me shake my head in shame that we cant simply get it all out in the open and lets the chips fall where they may.

You have seen them... but eyewitness testimony is USELESS

My military contacts have seen them... and they wear officers uniforms... but such testimony is USELESS

SETI looks for radio ways from 'out there' Radio waves if strong enough can go a long way, but our TV signals that left Earth only short of 100 years ago are only now reaching the local stars and are so degraded even 20 light years out that they would vanish in the background noise.

Why don't they look in near earth orbit for ship to ship 'chatter'

Now one SETI scientist looked for signals of the Laser kind... and found one... how about that!

Even our sci fi writers now you need something other than radio waves if your a space faring civilization because when your moving at warp speeds your messages will take eons to catch up to you

And yeah Earth is in the middle of nowhere... we are 50 LY above the rim of the Milky Way on an arm, moving 'up' to 250 LY above the plane... and may not even be from the Milky Way and many have said we are a quarantined Planet till we grow up and can leave Kindergarten and join the real galactic society...

reply to post by zorgon


I looked up the laser thing and actually found that to be quite interesting. I wonder what was made of that discovery. I also wonder how many astronomical objects out there can naturally pulse lasers.

Either way though, that doesn't really solve the communication problem. It's still only as fast as light, like radio, but is also easily scattered by anything between us and the emitter. It would be a matter of luck if we received it. Of course we should still be looking at lasers - it's just another aspect of the search. But don't bet on it as being the new go-to method.

I actually plan on talking to my astro professor about this.

Originally posted by antar
God I have seen them in real life, I KNOW that they exist. I am not the only one, yet these kinds of papers simply make me shake my head in shame that we cant simply get it all out in the open and lets the chips fall where they may.

I'm sure you believe you've seen "them," whatever they are. But even if they walked up to you and told you they were aliens, why would you believe them? They might be something else, just telling you that because that's the best you can understand.

Personally, unless I could offer enough hard proof that I could make somebody else understand, and know what I knew, I'd have to qualify what I said about them. I'd have to say, "As far as I know from personal experience...," or "I could be mistaken, but I believe that they..." I don't trust my own knowledge about a lot of things. I'm sure aliens would be right up at the top of that list, without objective evidence to back it up.

Originally posted by Gazrok
The biggest factor is TIME...

That's true. But it's also a factor in our favor. After all, because civilizations would presumably come and go over the 10 billion or so years the Universe has been around and cool enough for life to develop, if there are tens of thousands or millions of civilizations out there they're likely to be in all kinds of stages of development. Therefore, at any given time that we listen, there would be a certain percentage of them that were right at the same stage of development we are just at the distance necessary for us to pick up their signals now. So maybe out of 10 million civilizations, there would be 10,000 at the right distance, at the right stage of development for us to get their signals.

And this would not only be the case for signals, but also for them sending out ships, maybe with life on them. Over the course of 10 billion years, tens of thousands of advanced civilizations within our own galaxy would have had the time to reach out to all potentially life-bearing planets and make themselves clearly known.

But we haven't had signals, and we haven't had clear indications of visitors. So at this point, assuming there are other creature-type aliens running around the galaxy, there must be some other factor or factors at work other than time to explain why we haven't run into each other yet.

Maybe there just aren't any. After all, the Drake Equation doesn't come up with a figure of 100,000 other civilizations. It comes up with a range of zero to 100,000. The universe has a lot of the same things in it, but it is also full of singular unique things. Maybe life on this planet is one of those singular things.

Still, it doesn't hurt to look around. We exist, so there's no particular reason why other creatures can't exist. What the heck.

Originally posted by Cassius666
reply to post by FOXMULDER147

 

I have seen garages, id rather look for intelligent life in space than for a monkey wrench in some of the garages I have seen. The likelyhood that intelligent life is actually there is greater too

.

The point I was making is that the size of the universe is beyond comprehension, so the question "why haven't we found aliens yet?"... is a bit silly.

If you throw a needle into a haybarn, you don't stop after 5 mins of searching and say "gee... why haven't I found it yet"

Lacking verifiable proof, we don't have them yet.

We are the only confirmed Space Travelers-that we know of.

I believe there is more out there, as many of you do, but, Where's the Beef?

I think man has to start accepting the matter that we are the first ones able to head into Space. We are the original Aliens.

It's just the mood I am in tonight.

They are among us and know way too much about us to not make themselves known for fear of us doing what we usually do. That is what we dont understand we kill it!

reply to post by anon72

What if some aliens are not as advanced as we are and are just not capable of communicating with us? What if some planets that have life on them are like what Earth was long time before?

Aliens that have the same level of development obviously face the same difficulties we face and I guess the more advanced civilizations are uninterested in us. I really hope that by 2012 we will make the long-awaited contact!

What we should fear is that if a civilization that is more advanced than us tries to communicate with us they're most probably not coming in peace. Why would they be interested in a less developed world if they don't have any interests? The most obvious reason for communicating with our planet would be colonizing us (if they need cheaper workforce or slaves etc.). I'm not being a pessimist, that's the most realistic view. The way empires colonized other territories in the past may be applicable for colonizing other planets, too.

If they are more advanced than people we should fear - they could decide using us the way we use animals. The most intellectually and culturally advanced animal on Earth is using and abusing other animals, why wouldn't advanced aliens wish to do the same to us?

Originally posted by Johniie
They are among us and know way too much about us to not make themselves known for fear of us doing what we usually do. That is what we dont understand we kill it!

I have a feeling if "they" have the capability to pass among us without being detected, they don't have anything to fear from us. And as far as us being such total bad-asses we must be feared, it's just as likely that we're nothing compared to some of the real bloodthirsty rock-eaters out there, and the friendly aliens might just be protecting us as we would a delicate flower or butterfly.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Think about an alien civilization just 100 light years away that first broadcasted 50 years ago. That first signal is still only halfway here. Another civilization just 100 light years away (different direction, and evolved further back), their last signal was 200 years ago, so it got here about 100 years ago (before anyone was really looking)....

So we might even have heard it but missed it eh?

What if we succeeded in 2 way communication with an intelligence outside our planet, and no one noticed? What if THEY heard our call and responded but we just couldn’t grasp their language?

That’s exactly what happened as early as 1928 in Eindhoven Holland and again in 1929 aboard a French research vessel in the South China Sea. After transmitting over the radio waves 3 sounds in rapid succession every 30 seconds, Van der Pol in Eindhoven examined the return echoes. They were not as neatly spaced as he had sent. In fact they were highly irregular, ranging from 1 to 30 seconds in delay time.

At the time, the discrepancies were explained as fluxuations in the ionosphere, or magnetic disturbances. But the pitch or frequency of the sounds did not change - only the spacing of the echoes.

It wasn’t until the 1970’s that this mystery was carefully examined and decifered by Duncan Lunan, a scientist from Scotland. He plotted a vertical axis of the transmitted pulse sequence with a horizontal axis of echo delay time. The result ? A picture of the constellation Boötis as it would look 15,000 years ago.

But that’s not all. There was a message hidden in the dots on his graph. Lunan was able to translate into simple English the meaning of these echo delay discrepencies, proving perhaps that they are a purposeful manipulation directed by a highly intelligent ‘other’ .

The message is as follows:

START HERE.
OUR HOME IS EPSILON BOOTIS.
WHICH IS A DOUBLE STAR.
WE LIVE ON THE 6th PLANET OF 7 - CHECK THAT, 6th OF 7 -
COUNTING OUTWARDS FROM THE SUN
WHICH IS THE LARGER OF THE TWO.
OUR 6th PLANET HAS ONE MOON,
OUR 4th PLANET HAS THREE,
OUR FIRST AND THIRD PLANETS EACH HAVE ONE.
OUR PROBE IS IN THE ORBIT OF YOUR MOON
THIS UPDATES THE POSITION OF ARCTURUS SHOWN ON OUR MAPS."

The only possible conclusions we can draw from this are:

1) Duncan Lunan is a highly imaginative con artist (in fact he has published science fiction stories before)

2) Prof. Lunan interpreted the graph incorrectly and his extrapolations are more speculative

3) An advanced civilization in the vicinity of Arcturus (Hokulea, the guiding star of Hawaiian mythology) sent an unmanned satellite probe to monitor Earth 15,000 years ago, to be activated by radio waves when Humans reached that technological point in their evolution. A dialogue could then have been established, and we might have gained much more than the misunderstood reference greeting.

After publication in the Journal of the British Interpanetary Society (complete with disclaimer from the editors) and a few newspaper articles in the U.S. on this ‘far out’ scientist, the matter was dropped and no further investigation was undertaken.

Could a musical score be made from graphs of this fascinating interstellar communique`? Is the plotting in 2 dimentions of 4 dimensional space an excellent way for different intelligent species to communicate?

- David Simons 1992

SPACE PROBE from EPSILON BOÖTIS
anomalies.net...

legends of the Black Knight Satellite

Originally posted by qalameid
I actually plan on talking to my astro professor about this.

Well here are the facts including Dr Baghirs letter and signal chart to me

Signals From Space
www.thelivingmoon.com...

And here is a paper from NASA with the SETI optical team involved on "natural" lasers

laserstars.org...

reply to post by zorgon

The message is as follows:

START HERE.
OUR HOME IS EPSILON BOOTIS.
WHICH IS A DOUBLE STAR.
WE LIVE ON THE 6th PLANET OF 7 - CHECK THAT, 6th OF 7 -
COUNTING OUTWARDS FROM THE SUN
WHICH IS THE LARGER OF THE TWO.
OUR 6th PLANET HAS ONE MOON,
OUR 4th PLANET HAS THREE,
OUR FIRST AND THIRD PLANETS EACH HAVE ONE.
OUR PROBE IS IN THE ORBIT OF YOUR MOON
THIS UPDATES THE POSITION OF ARCTURUS SHOWN ON OUR MAPS."

I can believe we are not alone but not that ET speaks perfect English...
Especially in 1928 when there wasn't much in the way of radio signals to learn from

Originally posted by backinblack
I can believe we are not alone but not that ET speaks perfect English...
Especially in 1928 when there wasn't much in the way of radio signals to learn from

What part of 'legend' do you not understand

What language did the Aliens use when they showed Barney and Betty Hill their star chart?

reply to post by zorgon


Sorry, I must have missed the word "legend".
I just saw this..

That’s exactly what happened as early as 1928 in Eindhoven Holland and again in 1929 aboard a French research vessel in the South China Sea.

Once the Monkeys begin to get smart to the point where they are reach a technological singularity through the developement of A.I, nano tech and bio engineering is a mere blip in the cosmological scheme of things - and it could have been done a great deal quicker with us if we wern't so retarded.

If this had happened elswhere even once, the universe would probably be filled to the brim with nano-replicating cyborg mutants of every description.

Therfore we are either unique, or there are powers in the universe that explicitly prevent this.

The universe is certainly teeming with intelligence as far as the various spirit and otherdimensional worlds are concerned - and this is almost certainly where are supposed ET visitors come from - hence the complete absence of solid tangible evidence.

reply to post by imnessie


Um... unfortunately, you put out the most plausable event path. Being treated like we treat cattle/animals. Not Good....

Some really good replys in here and some good discussions. You should make sure you draw attention to this thread so more people will come to and read your stuff. IMO.

Who hasn't found aliens yet? The average person? Millions have night time experiences and should be exploring their memory banks more, meditate more. Millions are aware they've seen crafts, and each time that happens, they and others had time slips, not remembering the full details of what happened when they saw the craft. As to everyone else, we're playing this hollographic universe school, which is condensed energy waves, with our minds which are like/akin to, note this is a metaphor, dvd player, and we don't have the remotes. They do. Every single person on earth has been checked up on and been taken. All of us. Time is but a program.

The black ops and para military all know about ETs, and collude with the negatives. ETs have been a part of earth agendas since time memorial. Most of the planet is water, and many of the bases are under ocean ones.

I recommend Sleeper's posts and ET_MAN's posts and spiritual metaphysics, and the thread about the Holographic Universe and Space-Time in my signature.

No, Hollywood didn't invent them. Follow trends about them, or try to set trends for Vrill, the para military branch, who knows. Also, some of what is Hollywood, like in Startrek, Star Wars and Star Gate are leaks to us.

reply to post by Gazrok


Time isn't really much of a problem, for it doesnt exist, its just a program in our minds. This infinite Holographic Universe is energy waves, energy = matter and matter = energy, and its all perception in our minds. My thread in my signature on the Hologrphic Universe gives some videos to watch that are basic science now, especially the one about perception and matter/reality.

We're infinite intelligence/soul/life, progressing in an infinite system/school, and its very populated. Infinity has no time, it has no central point, there is no bigger/smaller, higher/lower, past/future. There is absolutely NO locality to be found. If you measure a point and put a dot down anywhere, you will not be 90% along an infinite line. You will find instead, the same equal mass of endless infinity is around you, behind and in front forever, wherever you place the dot.

The potential infinity within a grain of sand is equal to the potential infinity within the largest star, and both can be divided unto infinity and never disappear. Both are equal in volume.

No Limits and No Locality. Time is but a program. To an advanced ET, Higher Up, or Family outside the Universe, (Teacher watching over the kindergarden kiddies in the playground) be back in a second, literally can be a 10 million "year" where there is no such measurement and its only an absract thought, vacation with family. You can 100% on Service To Other Mode and home with infinite Family as well, growing more, and advancing more, Loving more yourself.

ETs with higher technology, some in this galaxy millions of years ahead of us, and in the universe billions, know all this, and are much more progressed than us, although to become higher ups in the system/school, they would be progressed both spiritually and scientifically and in fact, metaphysics/quantum physics is a kind of blend of both, for its a real of what Infinity itself means as well.

No Time. Time isn't important, as its just a program in your perceptioin based on the orbit of your planet around your star, and they have the remotes.

reply to post by Blue Shift


Here's the thing, I saw one accidentally in its true form, it changed to keep me from feeling uncomfortable. That is one of the reasons I am here on the net. I am a witness and have some respectability and very deep experiences.

Interesting how supposed credible witnesses are poopooed and even Governmental officials, Astronauts and ex Military who claim to have also seen them in real life up close and personal, get the same response from people like yourself, so tell me short of you having your own experience, who or what would make you trust something which you have not experienced for yourself?

I am not being snitty or mean, I really want to know.