Why do Americans need guns? Rip UP the Second Amendment, problem solved.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Advantage

 

I don't think there's been a lot of anti-US rhetoric in this thread; I certainly don't think I've been guilty of 'US bashing'.
If anything there's been the usual 'damn commies' blinkered approach from the pro-gun lobby who see anyone who believes in gun control as a pinko, pissy arsed, liberal coward.

If I lived in the US I suspect I'd own a gun.

As I live in the UK there is no need for me to own a gun and so I don't.

A little.. not like in other threads. Ive noticed the delighting in our fallen economy and etc elsewhere and the gun issue invariably comes up... its simply weird. I agree.. it can be taken too far each way as far as gun control. Im in the middle. I understand reasonable controls on firearms. I have no need for anti-aircraft weaponry myself.. I find it hard to understand the position of some that feel they do. Our govt does things pretty backward.. Id think that it makes more sense to get control of the illegal guns before targeting the legal ones. But there I go being sensible and expecting the govt to be as well... again.

Well, there are no guarantees in life...Just odds. Odds are, if you're adequately armed, no one is going to want to risk taking you on..If you're not adequately armed, some one might want to take what you've got, and they'll succeed. It's the reason I took martial arts..but when I grew up, and realized I wasn't bullet proof, I bought a gun...

Once again it is sad to hear that you have SOLD YOUR IDEALS and beliefs for the easier way. Im not even a martial artist but you speak to any martial artist and they will tell you its not about the kicks and punches you learn, its the WILLPOWER and MENTAL strength you obtain from your masters, who teach you a better way of life. And if they dont do that, they are inadequate teachers.

Havent you ever heard the term PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE? You want to stop gun crime, you teach ppl to not need guns. You want to stop STDs and PORN or PROSTITUTES, you teach them, nuture them to know this is the wrong path to fall into, to stop having mindless sex etc etc. Stop OBESITY, not liposuction or w/e its called, but teaching them at living the greasy life is the way forward. Stop illnesses and health related problems, LIVE A HEALTHY LIFE, stop smoking, teach ppl to look after themselves.

Man you all are on a procession of digging yourself a deeper hole, but thinking SHORTCUTS can be made to sort your problems out. On a constant state of degeneration. And then the government will feed you more and more shortcuts, taking your freedoms and liberties away while they are at it, and you will comply. The only way yor getin out of that 6foot grave is to et yourself a ladder... and on ladders youhave t make STEPS ONE AT A TIME.

Absolutely ridiculous. You always end up with stuff ike, oh you havent lived over here yo dont know how it is, well we can look at worse countries, they live in much more peace with themselves and others, and have not lost their IDEALS OR BELIEFS

Originally posted by nastyj

Originally posted by Gakus
Because we have the right to defend ourselves and our families?

The whole argument against the right to bare arms is idiotic at best.

Drugs are illegal yet can be obtained on just about any street corner in the US, you think outlawing guns would be any different? than you're just naive.

Man you guys live in such a deluded world. What if the opposite were to happen. What if it was the palestinians and afghanis and iraqis had as much power the american has, what if they decided invade your country on the RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES FROM ALL YOUR BULL# you have done in their country? And you never had the weapons to defend yourselves?

You guys with your big guns have a superiority complex that hinders you unable to have sound judgment when questioning rational thought.

Its always the same thing over and over again, I HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THIS AND THAT. Just because your bully government gave you those rights, look at the crime rate in your country, from guns crime especially, compare that to anywhere else. Absolutely ridiculous. You always think about yourselves.

First of all, if you went on a mode where you decided not to just outlaw gun, but DESTROY ALL OF THEM, then you would be getting somewhere..
It is cheap as # to buy guns or any product when it is legal, when it becomes illegal, then it will be expensive, and will reduce the amount of people owning gun drastically, especially when the recession has caused you all to be broke.

Show a little mercy and then people will learn. Your gutless ways and merciless atttude for guns is a cesspool of dirt that will continue to get worse before it gets any better. I cant belive you even realise how much of a coward you are and still cling to it.

Your firsrt paragraph:
They would come and go just like Japan! Broken! The only way we would not defend ourselves is if we are dead. Guns aren't the only weapons in the world. The delusion and agenda pushing is coming from you. Even if the US is over in your neck of the woods, they were bombed and people on that said said good, I wish I was the one that did it. Nuts shouldn't have taken credit if they didn' t do it. So 9 11 was Bull#? Come back to me on that one (note/logic here not conspiracies/I know the drill on that one being inside for greed). Please!
Also you guys have guns on you so please stop all this victim here crap. You have no problems raping girls and killing them. Learn to fight bigger targets!

All that big gun/superiority/questioning rational thought stuff - you people over there have called on the US to help you before remember? IRAN anyone? You all did this make America the police crap. Now you want to whine about it. Make up your minds already! We would love our people here and not over there bothering with your lies, fables, stories, garbage, trash and tales. Oh and while we are thinking about ourselves, lets get back all that humanitarian aide you keep sucking up. We could use that money right now.

And of course you are also not an expert on US history or you would know WE THE PEOPLE GAVE US THOSE RIGHTS WHEN WE KICK BUTT AND TOOK AMERICA FROM BRITIAN! You got plenty of nerve considering all you ever do is talk mess and blow up things and hide like cowards. This is why you have not gone anywhere. You can't cut through your own BS, how can you claim to understand anyone elses? I will say this though, now I wish America never fought for another country or gave it aide now, seeing how you are so much better than us and all.

Oh and your destroy all guns speech - you threw your own baby out with the bath water by saying "It is cheap as # to buy guns or any product when it is legal, when it becomes illegal, then it will be expensive, and will reduce the amount of people owning gun drastically, especially when the recession has caused you all to be broke." U sure you aren't disinfo? First you say destroy all guns so where would THESE guns that will be more expensive be coming from? Let me enlighten you on this: Criminals have guns - they steal them idiot!

Oh and please please, with this gun coward thing. Criminals are cowards because they prey on the defenseless. You want America gone so you can just go back to raping women and children and killing them in the name of Allah because they were so bad to make you desire them. Cowards are made by intentions. What's yours?

reply to post by kevinunknown


The Government outlawed pot and other various drugs... but guess who still has them! Yep. The bad guys. Now just sit and think for a moment.... What if the ONLY people that had guns were the "BAD GUYS"! What would you or I have to defend ourselves with.

INSTEAD... Why not GIVE AWAY guns to all LAWFUL and PEACEFUL people. The more armed people we have, the lower amount of gun related crimes we'd have. The BAD GUYS wouldn't know who was armed!!!

reply to post by 1curious1
At birth,everyone should be issued a few things:

-One get out jail free card.

-One free of consequence DUI conviction. (for insurance purposes)

-One voucher for a handgun at any gun shop,and 100 rds ammo.

Leave it a choice for people to decide themselves,or not......

....And you end up with this whole mess we have to live in....

reply to post by nastyj


1. How do you know what my ideals and beliefs are?

2. How do you know how I was taught? You don't know with whom or what, if any, traditions I studied.

3. For you to make the assertion that a persons situation doesn't matter proves that you have never had your life threatened. I have.

I think you should spend less time writing emotionally reactionary replies to a subject you know little about and do some research.

There are reasons to be against guns, and many people on ATS have made their case far better than you...I don't agree with any of them, most have been quite cordial, and while we debate in a heated fashion, there is no ill will intended. But you don't seem to be able to make your case without being rude. It's really hard to want to take your particular position into consideration when you're flinging insults into the wind letting them fall where they may.

May I recommend a change in course? It's better than having mod in here mucking up the thread...

A COWARD is someone who is so afraid of firearms that they would rather cower down in a home invasion rather than kill for the lives of themselves and their family.

SMH. This same coward is the same palestinian fighting back against a dude that has one hella big gun. and all he has are sticks and stones, and the occasional firework lol. Yet he still fights back, you call that a coward? Yeah he might be a little dumb, but he is BRAVE. If he had the weapons to fight you think he wont? You mad son? But im not talking about arming the defenseless, im talking about disarming THE REAL COWARD.

Man dont use the word coward if you dont have the balls to use it right. I would LOVE to see what you would do in teir situation, living a life behind the gun MAKES YOU PUT ALL YOUR TRUST IN IT.

Look at the great leaders, look at Martin Luthor, look at Gandhi, Nelson mandela, they have caused a revolution ad changed policies etc for the better with their WORDS their TEACHINGS. You would call them a coward by saying no to using a gun to getting what they wanted? No because the SANE minded know that humaniarian and reasoning can make more of a change then a gun?

What about JFK? would you call him a coward becaus ehe didnt have the means of defending himself from the shooter? Man you are liviing backwards bro, the human mind and body is capable of way more than silly guns.

Whoever invented the gun was a retard.

Remember when you had to train and be skilled and educated to kill someone (wait, no, you don't)? That made it so you had to actually feel strongly enough about something to work for several years to work your skills up to do it. Now people just shoot children for stepping on their property because they are pissed off that their cheeseburger took so long at McDick's that morning.

Sociopathic slobs love guns. Don't bother trying to take them away, they will shoot you. It's what the idiot box told them to do when someone threatens "their freedoms".

Forgive my frankness,

But the OP is severely ignorant of why any populace would want to have guns.

The right to bear arms, as stated in the 2nd amendment, was to give the people the right to overthrow a corrupt government as required. And this wasn't written just about hunting rifles, this meant bombs, cannons, and any other military weapon of the day.

And I would argue, that if everyone carried a gun, the crime rate would plummet.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Yes, guns are evil. Yes, killing people is wrong. Yes, the second ammendment allows gangs to perform drivebys and kill a bunch of 10 year olds. But what is the alternative? The second ammendment wasn't about defending yourself from muggers, it was about defending yourself from the government. The second ammendment is the lesser evil. The American Revolution would have failed if no one had guns. Sadly, when you're at the end of a gun, the person with their finger on the trigger has all the power. If the only people who have guns are the military then they have free reign to do whatever they want. This is ok, I suppose, if you have an ethical government. However, we all learned in the last 50 years or so, that we cannot count on our government to remain ethical. The guns ensure that the government fears its people and they will think twice about taking away your rights.

So we can have either violent inner cities or a police state. The choice seems obvious, no?
I normally respect the opinions of others, but your suggestion is DANGEROUS.
Go away.

Originally posted by Hendrix92TheUniverse
Forgive my frankness,

But the OP is severely ignorant of why any populace would want to have guns.

The right to bear arms, as stated in the 2nd amendment, was to give the people the right to overthrow a corrupt government as required. And this wasn't written just about hunting rifles, this meant bombs, cannons, and any other military weapon of the day.

And I would argue, that if everyone carried a gun, the crime rate would plummet.

Nonsense.

It was to kill the British if they came back.

I don't think they are coming back.

The ammendment is absolutely pointless.

Do you deny that if A=B and B=C, that A=C?

I smell nationalism.

reply to post by kallisti36


What part of the 2nd permits driving by a crowd and firing into it?

I guess my drivers license permits me to drive up on the sidewalk drunk off my ass and plow a bunch of people over?

reply to post by nastyj


Prevention/cure fallacy is from Big Pharma. They don't prevent illness either/tactic to take their poison.
Also, no one gave up their beliefs. You just confused the theory with the practice. Martial arts is SELF DEFENSE and they use weapons too. All self defense does.
Bother to learn before you claim anything. Or should I do you like you are trying to do us: Oh and lack of spelling and grammar could cost you points - now am I being unfair? You keep calling us igorant but you can't communicate. Would I be wrong to go there? You call names don't you?
You really need to sit down and read instead of listening to Al Jazeere.

reply to post by Brood


Someone needs to read the Federalist Papers. The Federalist Papers are the explanation of the Constitution.

That's not at all the reason for the Second Amendment.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by kallisti36

 

What part of the 2nd permits driving by a crowd and firing into it?

I guess my drivers license permits me to drive up on the sidewalk drunk off my ass and plow a bunch of people over?

Drivebys are illegal, nothing in the 2nd that allows them, but they wouldn't be possible without guns. I'm saying that the 2nd can indirectly enable murder.

reply to post by kevinunknown


The laws dont stop the criminals in the UK do they? How about early last summer when that man went on a shooting spree? If more people had guns he would have been stopped in minutes

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Brood

 

Someone needs to read the Federalist Papers. The Federalist Papers are the explanation of the Constitution.

That's not at all the reason for the Second Amendment.

Why would I read a list of publications that someone made up latter to the original premise of the amendment itself? The publications also have zero dates on them and that renders them completely unrespectable.

Looks like someone needs to be a little less accepting of everything they read. Especially when the government poops it out in front of you to gobble up.

How spineless of you to suggest taking away the people's guns! They already made it so you can't purchase automatic rifles and sub-machineguns and thats's bad enough.

The argument is always that it’s for self defence, that way if someone pulls a gun on a knife on you, you can protect yourself. It’s a hard one to argue against, but surly if it were the case that gun’s were outlawed or heavily regulated it would lead to a overall reduction in the number of firearms owned and therefore the odds of someone pulling a gun on you would be greatly reduced therefore you wouldn’t have to own a fire arm and the odds would fall further. In any case you can never be sure it’s going to help your odds, if two gun men mug you or break into your house you’re already on the losing side. Now baring in mind that there are almost enough firearms America for every citizen the robbers are going to know you have a gun in your house, they are going to be prepared and have the element of surprise on their side.

I would not be on the losing side to any invasion of my house since I have a driveway sensor that alerts me any time someone comes walking or driving up. Cheap and effective.

If you don't like guns fine, don't own one, but don't think that by outlawing them you are going to solve the problem.

Originally posted by Brood

Originally posted by Hendrix92TheUniverse
Forgive my frankness,

But the OP is severely ignorant of why any populace would want to have guns.

The right to bear arms, as stated in the 2nd amendment, was to give the people the right to overthrow a corrupt government as required. And this wasn't written just about hunting rifles, this meant bombs, cannons, and any other military weapon of the day.

And I would argue, that if everyone carried a gun, the crime rate would plummet.

Nonsense.

It was to kill the British if they came back.

I don't think they are coming back.

The ammendment is absolutely pointless.

Do you deny that if A=B and B=C, that A=C?

I smell nationalism.

edit on 14-12-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)

And there is nothing wrong with nationalism, except those who lie, cheat and steal to get rid of it.
You the thief by the door?
Oh and it wasn't just for the British either. Its for NWO government sympathisers like you! And yes I deny your A, B, C fascism. Any free thinker knows you add it enough, the outcome will change. You obviously don't like nationalism because you want to rape and piliage those you can subjegate and American Nationalism is the only thing standing in your way.
I smell a rat!

Originally posted by Brood
Whoever invented the gun was a retard.

Remember when you had to train and be skilled and educated to kill someone (wait, no, you don't)? That made it so you had to actually feel strongly enough about something to work for several years to work your skills up to do it. Now people just shoot children for stepping on their property because they are pissed off that their cheeseburger took so long at McDick's that morning.

Sociopathic slobs love guns. Don't bother trying to take them away, they will shoot you. It's what the idiot box told them to do when someone threatens "their freedoms".

edit on 14-12-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)

What kind of education and training did the caveman receive before killing a enemy with a club? It takes little skill or training to kill someone.