Why do Americans need guns? Rip UP the Second Amendment, problem solved.

I got into this debate recently but it seemed a little bit of topic so I thought I would take a risk and write a thread myself asking the above question “why do Americans need guns?”

Now to me I can understand why a farmer might own a few shotguns or a hunter might own a few hunting rifles but why does anyone need a semi-automatic, unless their objective is to kill. To me guns are inherently evil objects that have been designed to kill our fellow man and therefore are evil as is to use a gun to kill. Further to this there have been a number of high profile shootings in America were a gun man has committed multiple homicide or gang warfare has resulted in innocents being killed. Now with that in mind how can you possibly say that the right to bear arms is justified? Yes some people need guns to do their jobs such as game keepers, farmers and law enforcement but why does Joe the plumber really need one.

The argument is always that it’s for self defence, that way if someone pulls a gun on a knife on you, you can protect yourself. It’s a hard one to argue against, but surly if it were the case that gun’s were outlawed or heavily regulated it would lead to a overall reduction in the number of firearms owned and therefore the odds of someone pulling a gun on you would be greatly reduced therefore you wouldn’t have to own a fire arm and the odds would fall further. In any case you can never be sure it’s going to help your odds, if two gun men mug you or break into your house you’re already on the losing side. Now baring in mind that there are almost enough firearms America for every citizen the robbers are going to know you have a gun in your house, they are going to be prepared and have the element of surprise on their side.

Now am sorry to spit on your 2nd amendment right, but for me self defence is not a valid argument for defending the 2nd amendment. Also the ability to carry arms has been severely restricted by the Gun-Free School zones act of 1990 signed by Gorge H W Bush, which is ironic considering that 41% of republicans own a firearm compared to only 23% of democrats so kudos to Bush. This does mean though that as a law abiding citizen in a town or city you really can’t carry a gun knowing that you are not breaking a law. As such you would be better just not carrying one, so again if you get attacked by someone you shouldn’t have a gun to defend yourself in the first place because to be carrying said firearm you would be breaking the law.

The line that I love is this “we have places to keep people who can’t use their guns properly, they’re called prisons”. Very true, but you also have places called hospitals and mortuaries filled with the victims of the scum your keeping in prison, and thousands of homes full of grieving families. Would it not just be better to ban or regulate these guns out right that way no idiots going to prison and cheaper hospital bills and less tears.
Then we get to my favourite, the line that all gun loving conspiracy theorists loves. “ I need my guns to protect myself for when the government turn on its people and try to through us all in the FEMA camps”. If that is your reason for keeping a gun, then you shouldn’t be allowed to own a gun based on your sanity. This fantasy that one day the feds are going to come knocking at your door to put you on the FEMA bus, then you, in a spectacular move pull out your Glock and take them all out then spend the rest of your life like the incarnation of the movie Rambo: First Blood, is just a fantasy no more. It’s not going to happen and even if it does your guns won’t do you any good, you will either die or be put in the camps so again I don’t give that fantasy any credibility as a reason to keep a locker full of AR-15’s in bedroom.

So can someone please tell me why you need a gun? In the UK I know no one who owns a gun, and no one I know has ever been disadvantaged because of this why is it that the worlds “super power” is any different, Gun Laws are out of date, rip up the second amendment and join the 21st century .

this is why the population should be armed
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

and thats just the top half of the front page at this time

Well, it's sorta like this. If the population doesn't or isn't allowed to own any weapons, then how can they defeat an oppressive government when they go to far. If you don't think this can happen in America, then this is because one of the these two things:

1. You don't live here
or
2. You haven't been paying attention on what is happening in our country the last 10 years.

Just my 2 cents worth. Peace.

reply to post by kevinunknown

"...you also have places called hospitals and mortuaries filled with the victims of the scum your keeping in prison, and thousands of homes full of grieving families. Would it not just be better to ban or regulate these guns out right that way no idiots going to prison and cheaper hospital bills and less tears"

Here here!

I know its from 2007 but these figures will still be true today Im sure:

www.reuters.com...

Firearms are very unevenly distributed around the world. The image we have of certain regions such as Africa or Latin America being awash with weapons -- these images are certainly misleading,

What would americans put in their pockets if they didn't have guns!? Thats the problem, people got used to feeling the weight.

Why I need a gun? How about why do you need a car? They kill more people every year than guns.

Or a swimming pool? Why do you need a swimming pool, they kill more children a year than guns.

But can a swimming pool protect me? Help me hunt for my family? Protect me against against powers within and without?

No.

Can a car provide me with a 'well regulated militia' that's the 'most natural defense of a free country'?

No.

Why do I need a gun?

Because - It's my right, that's why.

And I can assure you, when the ‘woop’ hits the fan? Who will most people be hiding behind?

The man or woman with the gun.

peace

I would push my argument for having guns as a reason to keep our governments in check. Heres my case and point. The UK has some sort of law in place that denies its citizens the right to bear arms (im assuming), does the government not have guns? WMDs? military force? So who defends you when the SHTF? It cant be the citizens because they have been de-fanged for the most part. Your only safety is the hope that you are on the right side of the Government and its choices, and even sometimes being on their side can lead to you ending up as collateral damage. So go ahead and willingly give up your gun, just dont get mad when your forced to do something against your will, and have no way to realistically defend yourself.

The 2nd Amendment was made for the citizens, not the government, so thats why we protect it and make sure we have a way out if things get bad. Besides that, how do you think this country was formed? I guess they threw sticks at each other right? Guns are why we are here today, so dont bash them too hard. In fact they changed the world, and for the better believe it or not. We could still be under Englands rule without them, and the whole world would be different if America didnt rise as a free nation with high ideals.

reply to post by Danbones


How is that first ATS thread link a reason for americans to have guns!!??

Americans: Its your country and you have the right to run it your way and keep your guns, but that doesn't mean the rest of us over the water can't help but wonder: why!? sometimes...

reply to post by silo13


I don’t have a car

I don’t have a Swimming pool.

OR A GUN!!!!

Environmentalists are going to kill us all anyway.

also, you are a perfect example of why the right to freedom of speech should be heavily regulated, just because you have a right doesn’t make it righteous.

reply to post by silo13


I dont own a car or a gun, and I live a happy life. go figure.
second line.

reply to post by Lagrimas


gun owners stop some 2 million crimes a year in the US

how is the first link a reason for a population to own guns...?
hahah
go figure...

reply to post by kevinunknown



Rip up the Second Amendment?

Along with the First Amendment?

...or are you saying that a "trade" is on the table? As in, the people get to keep the Second Amendment ONLY if we give up our Freedom of Expression and Freedom of the Press?



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reply to post by soficrow


Well you don’t have freedom of speech so its already gone.

I think the second amendment should be ripped up

You know what, maybe burning the whole thing might do the trick, it’s really only a piece of paper.

reply to post by kevinunknown


So take away anyone's right to free speech that doesn't agree with you?

Check.

To make sure they can't fight against you for taking their right to free speech away, you'd take away guns...

Check.


Sounds like you'd fit in quite well among the tyrants of the world.

The government (or governments in general, rather) have, through out history, came door to door and messed with civilians. To assume "a" government won't today is silly.

...And what about zombie apocalypse?

...It would be handy to know a dude with a ton of assault rifles.

When it comes down to it, you can't prevent a crime by taking away the tool. Where there's a will, there's a way.
You have to take away the intent.

But a big argument would be, "Why would you ever want a law that restricts your freedom instead of a law that grants you more?"

And how many gun crimes in America are based on "big" guns anyway? Wikipedia says it's less than knives anyway, so...

I will have to respectfully disagree with you, OP.

Taking guns out of law-abiding citizens' hands will do nothing for the reduction in murders due to gun related violence. Nine times out of ten, the shooting cases you hear about are from inner-city, thug filled areas where the "bad guys" are armed, and the "good guys" aren't allowed to carry. The "bad guys" will always get guns one way or another. To "rip up" our 2nd Amendment rights does nothing to alleviate the problem other than putting more guns in the hands of the "bad guys" and leaving nothing for the "good guys" to defend themselves with other than substandard police service.

Besides, you outlaw guns, and knifings will increase. You outlaw knives, and something else will take their place. The "bad guys" will always find ways of killing if that is their intent. The root of the problem is that there aren't enough "bad guys" in jail for gun crimes. I would wager that the majority of gun related crimes in the USA are the result of gang related violence.

This is from a brand new NRA member, 2nd Amendment supporting, law-abiding citizen.


Just adding my $.02 to this debate.



Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

reply to post by projectvxn


Well yes that is my 5 year goal.

No its not,

The point is you really don’t have freedom of speech anymore, if the government passes a law saying that you can’t say something then you don’t have freedom of speech.

You don’t need guns, no one has answered my question yet.

And I don’t see the government coming to put you into a FEMA camp anytime soon

reply to post by Danbones


I feel for the OP, because of course you guys in the US will never agree that getting rid of guns is a good idea in any way.

However Im happy to say that we over here pretty much all agree that guns would destroy our small country.
I doubt we will ever agree. After all guns dont kill people: people kill people, with guns (in america) and with pretty much any other weapon they can get their hands on (mainly knives) in the uk.

Im glad when I walk through a bad park I cant be got from 20 meters, I like the fact that they have to run right at me. Thats just me though...

If I could press a magic button that would make every gun, nuclear device, or bomb disappear, I would. But I can't so I see no reason to disarm law abiding citizens. As the old adage goes in this debate, 'Outlaw guns and only the outlaws will have guns.'

I'm not sure exactly why you're asking this since you answered your own questions already:

1). Self defense.
2). Protection against corrupt government.
3). Other: hunting, recreation.

You also mention the tales of innocents being killed by those with guns. True. This has happened. But also, there are also stories all over the place where violence was stopped when the innocent person was able to defend themselves with their own guns. It's a double edged sword which I feel is much better than a single edged sword where only the criminals have them- and they would find a way no matter how strict the regulations were.

The way I feel about the second amendment is this: Nobody HAS to own a gun but the right exists for you if you choose to own one. No one is forced to take advantage of the second amendment. So if you don't want to own one- don't. But leave those alone who do. Just like no one has to protest, exercise their right to free speech or be religious. However, the amendments are there to protect those who choose to exercise those rights.

In a perfect world, I wish none of these devices existed. But they do therefore I prefer things to be a bit more even sided. I actually feel sympathetic for you guys across the pond and elsewhere who are not allowed to own them except for hunting purposes, etc.

The vast majority of the gun crimes that are committed in America aren't committed by law-abiding, licensed gun-owners. Just like prohibition doesn't stop the influx of drugs, gun control laws have not stopped those intent of getting and using them from obtaining them.

Criminals don't care for law; the only people gun bans harm are law-abiding citizens who no longer have the option of legally defending themselves.

If however, you think America is a blood-soaked gun orgy now; a prohibition is the worst idea possible since Americans have already proven they will have no prohibition, laws or no laws, if somebody wants something bad enough they'll fight for it, legally or otherwise. Total control never works, total freedom never works; a balance and reasonable perspective is obviously the way to go.

I don't want to make it sound like it's "just tradition" but every time I see this discussion it seems like those who don't get the American outlook on firearms never will.

There are lots of reasons to own a gun. The most simple is that making guns illegal won't stop criminals from having them (at least not here in the US), so we might as well have them too. At least one might have a chance when attacked by some crackhead home invader.

The most important reason, however, is to protect ourselves from people who think

Originally posted by kevinunknown
.. the right to freedom of speech should be heavily regulated

These people are a threat to our basic freedoms, and free speech alone won't keep them at bay.

If you don't like guns, don't own one (oh, sorry, I forgot...you can't). I hope you never find yourself in need of one.