The Conspiracy to Deny the Spirit

Originally posted by mike184ever
reply to post by 547000

 

I have a fundamental belief in the Almighty but How can you even vouch for the new testament....Look at what happened at the Counsel of Nicea...then after Constintene died the books compiling the Holy Scriptures changed again....maybe you should make the journey to discover why and who and what it is that you believe in. Unless ofcourse you can be part of a conspiracy promoted by somebody that says its a free gift and you must pay tithe....Its a free gift but you must repent and be baptised....its a free gift but only this guy has it, or that guy has it....tell me, did the Christ die for the sins of the world or just the Baptist, or the Nazarenes with their sanctification,the pentecostals because they have and not the others received the Holy Spirit with eveidence of speaking in tongues....see my point......Study to show your self approved.......Read other material so you know what why and who it is that you base the TRUTH of your FAITH.
Can you tell me, was the fable roman god Mithris created before of after the era of the Christ?...Have to admitt starting with the apostal Paul, Paganism was introduced into Christianity because Rome was to be the seat of the religion. No Rome no continuence of the faith. Romans were very pagan....did you know that christians at that time were only baptised on their death bed......see there is a lot of bunk coming from the pulpit, and people are paying their last dollar to hear it...Think about this, if there was indeed a christ,who exactly were the money changers he drove from the synagogue....Remember after the Upper Room experiance the guys were out on the streets and one of the onlookers that had been following the desciples say after seeing the power of the spirit said " Hey I want that cause I could market it and we would be rich." Think about it

Actually Rome was not the center of 'Christian' faith until a millenia after the death of Christ (Satan is also bound after Calvary for a thousand years hmmm). Constantine made it the official religion of Rome (for arguably political ends) around 300 A.D. but the centers of faith were on the other side of the Medditeranean. The Nicean council made alot of decisions that may or may not have been biblical such as the trinity ( I think John supports it with " Go out in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit") but did nothing very nepharious (unless your a Gnostic, since they threw out all of your terrible books about salvation through hidden 'knowledge'). The one thing that happened during the ecumenical councils that disturbs me is how they threw out the book of Enoch and so thoroughly supressed it, it wasn't found for another thousand years. Jude quotes it verbatim! If you read Enoch and Revelations back to back you will see glaring comparisons, especially the preexistant Messiah and his features (hair white as wool etc). My personal opinion is that Enoch was surpressed to supress the truth of the fallen angels. Without Enoch and esoteric messages, like the taunt to the King of Tyre (no way that is a man) and the use of "Sons of God" in Genesis and Job, you would never know from the OT that Satan was a fallen angel and not God's personal tempter (as the modern Jews believe). The writings of the New Testament and the Essenes (some 500 years older) depict a very very different view of Satan and the fallen angels than the Masoretic Text which was compiled in 1000 A.D. (and there is a debate on whether the Jews doctored it to hide Messianic prophecies like the virgin birth).

reply to post by 547000


I dont know that Paul was a liar but he was a people pleaser and he knew he needed to blend in "all things to all men"
As for the Christ,I am only compelled to believe he is the bridge to Marduk. The Holy Scriptures? some of it yes some of it no. Dont be blind. Study to find the truth.Test it. Not with heart felt EMOTION but get to the bottom. My sick heart got me married to 6 different women.None the same one and none at the same time. Point is we are corrupt from the start thats where the Christ comes in,and God bless Paul, we are free indeed.with no prise to be paid period and that means even the Atheist. Thats just the way it works. For all mankind.Not just this one or that one where ones own spiritual pride kicks in and one plays god to deceide who is and isnt saved.Thats the only way it can be.All mankind...that means everybody

reply to post by kallisti36


I will only argue with your first sentence.There was a lot of evil over the first 1000yrs as for the rest I agree with you. Even the status of the Jews can be argued with...Big time conspiracy with Moses...Right now I cannot believe the book of Exodus. It appears the David and Soloman had nothing to do with the Temple....which brings us eventually to the point of the Arabs having a lagitamate beef with the Jewish Nation and their claim to the land..I dont really know. Tell me was Moses 1 man or 3. That whole Moses story bothers me now.Leading to the very point of this string.

reply to post by mike184ever


I don't use emotions to tell me what is true. When I say it was given to me that it is true, I mean it. I don't just say my heart tells me it was true. I know it was true because I asked for personal revelation. Jesus is divine, the crucifixion is real--I know these things, not just believe. If you will seek you will find.

I was an atheist. Do you really think I would believe just because I personally want it to be true or because my heart feels some emotion? I want the truth, not just emotional lies.

reply to post by 547000


OK!

reply to post by mike184ever


Hopefully that is true. But the scripture says you must believe in your heart that God resurrected Jesus to be saved. Hopefully this is an erroneous teaching--who would want anybody to go to hell?--but it could also be true and you are just projecting your own desires that it isn't factual.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by mike184ever

 

Hopefully that is true. But the scripture says you must believe in your heart that God resurrected Jesus to be saved. Hopefully this is an erroneous teaching--who would want anybody to go to hell?--but it could also be true and you are just projecting your own desires that it isn't factual.

As C.S. Lewis said, "We know that we may only enter Heaven through Jesus Christ, but we don't know what he will do with the rest" For all we know, God might let everyone out of "hell" after a certain amount of time much like the Apocalypse of Peter says (not supporting Gnosticism by the way).

Originally posted by mike184ever
reply to post by 547000

 

I dont know that Paul was a liar but he was a people pleaser and he knew he needed to blend in "all things to all men"
As for the Christ,I am only compelled to believe he is the bridge to Marduk. The Holy Scriptures? some of it yes some of it no. Dont be blind. Study to find the truth.Test it. Not with heart felt EMOTION but get to the bottom. My sick heart got me married to 6 different women.None the same one and none at the same time. Point is we are corrupt from the start thats where the Christ comes in,and God bless Paul, we are free indeed.with no prise to be paid period and that means even the Atheist. Thats just the way it works. For all mankind.Not just this one or that one where ones own spiritual pride kicks in and one plays god to deceide who is and isnt saved.Thats the only way it can be.All mankind...that means everybody

Paul didn't say everyone was saved, and Yeshuah says that "not all who say, 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven".

What do you mean the Christ is the bridge to Marduk. Isn't Marduk a pagan god. Much of what you say sounds Christian... others... well... not so much

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

It was given to me that Jesus is a path to God. Therefore I'd rather play it safe and walk that path.

But God himself is an idol. The bible specific condemns idol worship because it leads to disillusionment and a fear of the bigger picture. I doubt the bible was originally written so people reading it would follow an idol like God or Jesus; it was written as a testament of humanity, 2000 years ago, but it is now used as a textbook for worship by the Christian elite.

reply to post by kallisti36


I was with you until you quoted Bible verses. My belif is that the Bible is not the Word of God. If there is a universal creator he has been totally misrepresented. We do not know what "God" is about because we think the Bible is about God. I have studied the Bible myself and I've read many books and visited many websites who are in agreement with me. The Bible (Old Testament mostly) is about "entities" pretending to be God and angels. I don't know what the entities are. My belief is that they're aliens, but whether they're from another planet, another dimension or even just "Atlantians" I don't know. I believe they were flesh and bone, not spiritual in any way.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

It was given to me that Jesus is a path to God. Therefore I'd rather play it safe and walk that path.

But God himself is an idol. The bible specific condemns idol worship because it leads to disillusionment and a fear of the bigger picture. I doubt the bible was originally written so people reading it would follow an idol like God or Jesus; it was written as a testament of humanity, 2000 years ago, but it is now used as a textbook for worship by the Christian elite.

Wrong! An idol, by Biblical definition is a depiction of a false god by the works of human hands "they have ears, but do not hear. They have eyes but do not see". Idolatry was giving praise to anything but YHWH, the creator of the universe and the only one deserving of praise and worship. By the definition of other religions, Angels could be classified as deities, but they will refuse praise from man (unless they are fallen angels, which are the source of polytheism and idolatry in my opinion). You are thinking of the secular definition of idol, which is a corruption of it's true meaning. Idol in secular terms is something or someone you venerate or aspire to ("my idol"), this is deliberate sacrilige that has been loaded into our language.

Originally posted by Lannock
reply to post by kallisti36

 

I was with you until you quoted Bible verses. My belif is that the Bible is not the Word of God. If there is a universal creator he has been totally misrepresented. We do not know what "God" is about because we think the Bible is about God. I have studied the Bible myself and I've read many books and visited many websites who are in agreement with me. The Bible (Old Testament mostly) is about "entities" pretending to be God and angels. I don't know what the entities are. My belief is that they're aliens, but whether they're from another planet, another dimension or even just "Atlantians" I don't know. I believe they were flesh and bone, not spiritual in any way.

That would make sense if YHWH was depicted as anthropomorphic. He is not. This view has sprung up among Atheists who have conceded that there must be some source for beliefs in a deity. This concession mixed with our current fascination with ETs has caused many to come to the conclusion, that all deities were ETs that human beings at the time couldn't comprehend. I do believe that there was a time when we were visited by and taken advantage of by ETs, except I believe they were fallen angels claiming to be gods. I also believe that once the fallen angels are unbound they shall once again wreak havok upon the Earth and many 'rational' humans will believe them to be 'aliens' because they can't comprehend the spiritual war that has taken place since the fall of man. Be careful that you are not lead astray. There is another side to your ET view.

Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by King Seesar

 

Ok, many of the people replying to this thread seem to believe that I am supporting organized religion. This is not the case. I began as a Roman Catholic, became agnostic, and went searching for the "right" denomination. This is futile, all have their issues, all have their liars and those who would control you (the Pope, Joseph Smith, Ellen White). That is because most denominations base their beliefs on the teachings of men, yes even the fundies with their "sola scriptura" doctrine are guilty of this. The Church is found in YHWH/Yeshuah alone (not sure if Sola Scriptura is correct, but the Pope certainly has no spiritual authority to change the word). As for the divisions among the Church, the curious thing is that this is predicted in the Bible. The Church was a single entity for a thousand years, the same period of time that Satan was supposed to be bound. After this thousand years the first schism occurred and the Western Church (Roman Catholicism) went on to commit some of the worst crimes against humanity in recorded history. Then the Protestants split from the RCC (still keeping the erroneous doctrines of hellfire for non-believers) and committed their own atrocities. The Orthodox Church, has been largely innocent of many of the crimes of Protestants and Roman Catholics, and understand their doctrines
better due to Apostollic procession. I would become an Orthodox Christian in a heartbeat were it not for their
focus on iconography, which I am going to need alot of scriptual and scholarly persuasion is not idolatry (I think
I'll ask a Rabbi). Messianic Jews would also have my vote if they didn't treat the NT as an afterthought and
completely ignore the epistles.

The point I'm trying to make is that denominations are nice when you are having your beliefs confirmed by a congregation, but ultimately confuse people and can be the catalyst leading you into the service of men. I am unsure of dogma, but I do know that I am Christian and that is enough for me.

Over the years I have witnessed disgruntled Christians with the organization , and I can agree with disgust of man worship, pastors building their own kingdoms, one man shows(pastor pissing on the pulpit marking his territory) while preaching multiplicity of elders, and the whole structured timetable of a service, rote assembling, intimidation to questioning,striving for a title,the echelon system, and much more that I "see" in most all churches.
Then you have the rebel goats who are so consumed with pride that no church is spiritual enough for them and refuse to come under any healthy authority., and haver Never come under authority in their church lives.
Then they end up being rouge pieces of dried out fruit, resorting to Christian witchcraft and feeding the babes weeds.
It is a mess and the challenge is not to forsake the assembling together with humility.quite a mouthful.

Re 547000

Quote:

"If there is a hell, and you end up in there, you can't really blame God for it, because you were warned yet still hardened your heart. You wish never to honor such a God and would rather go to hell, you say it, so when you get your wish can you really blame God for your ill-fortune?"

I'm aware, that logic, reason and rational attitudes come second to doctrinal fanatism, but even allowing for that, your non-sense stands out by its meaninglessness. You just repeat your last post, expecting steamrolling repetitiveness to make up for absurdity. My answer is the same as last time: Get a grip on your syntax, semantics, logic and avoid circle-arguments and doublebinds.

Quote:

"I can vouch for the authenticity of at least the New Testament,......."

Considering your inability to formulate even the simplest straight thought, your 'vouching' for anything isn't exactly a recommendation.

Quote:

" .......but nothing I say will convince you, so I won't bother."

So what's the purpose of this post of yours to me?

Re Mike184ever

You wrote:

"Point is we are corrupt from the start thats where the Christ comes in,and God bless Paul, we are free indeed.with no prise to be paid period and that means even the Atheist. Thats just the way it works. For all mankind.Not just this one or that one where ones own spiritual pride kicks in and one plays god to deceide who is and isnt saved.Thats the only way it can be.All mankind...that means everybody"

At least you're honest about it. We're all members of your fascistic club, whether we want it or not.

It must be very sad for you, that you and your ilk don't have the power anymore to make this membership compulsary, and that your only option is to whine about the 'persecution' your self-appointed 'truths' are exposed to in form of criticism and resulting falling membership.

reply to post by bogomil


I understand logic. I program computers and study mathematics. It is you who are not getting it or don't understand it. If God is the God of the bible, who you claim you will never follow, then when you are eternally separated from Him, He did no wrong; He warned you of the consequences, and you did not heed Him. He said what He would do, then if He does it, why is He the wrong one here?

My post was to dispel the notion that God is the evil one. He made no promise that this world would be pleasant, but did make promises of the world to come, so if you complain about how this world sucks, note that God never promised it would be pleasant.

Re 547000

Thanks for the reformulation of your recent posts into a logic form, accessible to everyone.

You wrote:

"My post was to dispel the notion that God is the evil one. He made no promise that this world would be pleasant, but did make promises of the world to come, so if you complain about how this world sucks, note that God never promised it would be pleasant."

Granting your now clarified 'IF' this or 'IF' that, your 'christian (?)' notions still are rather simplistic, both intrinsic and considered from an external perspective. I'm sure, that it can't have escaped your attention, that several ideological or 'map-making' systems have carried the argumentation successfully far beyond what you stop at, and in considerably broader contexts than you present.

In fact there are so many options of enlargening the narrow doctrinal frame you base your posts on, that it's meaningless for me to start on any specific one. Hope your computor-programming and mathematical studies are advanced enough to form a basis of response instead of preaching. Direction of your choice.

You're the one convinced it isn't true. I never posted towards you but you posted towards me so I posted back towards you. I'm not preaching. If you noticed I only posted once giving my testimony and replied to people who posted towards me. If you don't want to be "preached at" don't post towards me, because all I'll do is share my perspective which is preachy to people who disbelieve the things I do.

Where has my logic failed? I merely used a conditional. I cannot prove the "if" part, nor have I intended to. Those who seek will find out for themselves what is true or false.

reply to post by bogomil


me and my ilk...ok....like I said, its always the athiest that does the name calling.Have a nice day

Re 547000

You wrote:

"If you don't want to be "preached at" don't post towards me, because all I'll do is share my perspective which is preachy to people who disbelieve the things I do."

Dude, this is a public forum, and if you want private conversations, where your 'testimonies' go uncommented, there exist such options.

And if you don't like my opposition to your preaching, you have the same option of not answering my posts.

Quote:

"Where has my logic failed? I merely used a conditional. I cannot prove the "if" part, nor have I intended to. Those who seek will find out for themselves what is true or false."

Concerning logic, I referred to a later post, where you say:

" My post was to dispel the notion that God is the evil one. He made no promise that this world would be pleasant, but did make promises of the world to come, so if you complain about how this world sucks, note that God never promised it would be pleasant."

You have dispelled no notions that "God is the evil one" at all. That's why I protested and suggested a more inclusive look at your 'dispelling'. You're pouring very advanced analyses of this specific subject down the drain or just plain ignoring them, to protect your doctrines.