The Conspiracy to Deny the Spirit

reply to post by Jerry_Teps


Ah ha, you get to be right and make someone wrong! High five?!

reply to post by whatevername


Has it occured to anyone else that the average athiest knows more about the Bible than most Christians (to refute it), but are still terrible theologians? To compare an omnipotent, omnipresent, being with no beginning or end like YHWH with Bigfoot/the tooth fairy/leprechauns is a horrendous fallacy and simplification. These athiests, though rather intelligent, are unable to convince me that my own experiences are incorrect. I've also entertained their conclusion during the time I was agnostic; it was painful, I gained nothing by this. It was a surrender, a betrayal, and a slow suicide and this was when my experience of God was much less refined, much easier to discount. Eventually I realized that there was nothing to this dead philosophy of cosmic nihilism and I began my soul search, intending to find what I had lost; the spirit. Even if it were only a happy delusion. Many things occured, among the most important was meeting a demon. I thought "surely if there are demons, then angels must exist as well", and the search lead me back to the God I had tossed aside. I have seen and experienced too many things for these clever athiests to discount, atleast not to me personally. Will my personal testamony convince anyone? Unlikely; they must gather their own.

reply to post by slowisfast


This is true, however the Sabbath is Saturday, that's God's day for Him to be praised, that's the day He chose. That's kind of like saying if it's you birthday on Dec.24th and nobody acknowledges your birthday until the 25th every year lol messed up huh?

Originally posted by kallisti36

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by kallisti36

 

How often are you confronted by religion in society today? Rarely ever, right?

hallelujah

*Ahem* Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I guess you must live in the Bible belt, because this is the only place I've ever lived (New Orleans) where I was confronted with religion in public. The only place I have been confronted with religion outside of a Chruch in 5/6 of these states are the Christian channels and Fox News. The only religion I'm confronted with here in California is trendy psuedo-Buddhism and Scientology

, so I guess the West Coast is "under a rock".

edit on 12-12-2010 by kallisti36 because: (no reason given)

Did you miss the bit "In god we trust" on your currency ?

I don't really want to be rude here but come on we are confronted by religion at every level, take education for example, look at the fuss the christians over creation not being taught in the classrooms.

I live on the opposite side of the Atlantic by the way, and religion is shoved in my face wherever I turn my head, over here it is "Law" that religious assembly is forced upon children .

So ok I apologist for being flippant and a tad rude in my first response but at the end of the day there is ample evidence to the contrary of your initial claim.

Originally posted by Mizzijr
reply to post by slowisfast

 

This is true, however the Sabbath is Saturday, that's God's day for Him to be praised, that's the day He chose. That's kind of like saying if it's you birthday on Dec.24th and nobody acknowledges your birthday until the 25th every year lol messed up huh?

Yeah, I'm not entirely convinced that Christians should worship on Sunday myself. Paul makes a good case for Sunday worship (the day Yeshuah rose from the dead) but I think the gospels have priority over the epistles and Yeshuah didn't tell people to start breaking the Sabbath. Too bad this is one of the few doctrines of Seventh-Day Adventists that I agree with. I believe that the Ethiopian Orthodox Tawahedo Church also keeps that Sabbath (and uses Enoch and Jubilees in their canon! ) too bad I don't speak Amharic. Oh well, don't need a church to be Christian.

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened

Originally posted by The Djin

We are supposed to think of God as a mystical bearded sky genie (belief held by many believers and non-believers)

Because that is exactly how the bibles (the source of this superstition ) describe him, so what's the problem ?

Book, chapter, and verse, please.

Genesis So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him;

So there you go bearing in mind the bald ape was given the instruction by said sky god not to remove his beard .

reply to post by kallisti36


There is a strange story within Enoch and the Canaans. I believe thats area Freemasonry was found. Starting with Nimrod (Gilgamesh or Tammuz) and his people

Religion IS THE CONSPIRACY.

Lies told by men so they could get power, just like the men of today, the only difference is that religion has lost most of its real power, Lets be honest we all KNOW god does not exist (at least in terms of any our religions) He is fake, a story create to explain things that at the time where unexplainable, what proof is there that ANYTHING in the bible happened? Really? NONE, no more than any other fictional story from that time period, and then of course just look at the world! greed & power is idolized, greed at some point even became a virtue, an acceptable trait ! (thank you America!)

The pope for example created rules & regulations to protect pedophiles & silence the victims, If theres a god do you think he's tolerate that? do you actually want to be part of that? If thats what god stands for I'll take my chances with "satan"!! Then we have Aids, birth defects & a whole host of other things, that would mean if there was a god, he would be one evil twisted S.O.B.,


Also my biggest issue with religion (the one IMO shows that is it FAKE) Is The Devil, Satan. If Hell & satan is real, WHY would he punish people for being evil? It doesnt make sense. If he is "the source of all evil" WHY punish evil do'er, doesnt really make sense when you think about it. If satsn did punish poeple for being evil, that in turn would mena he wsa doing GODS WORK, wich would bascailly make satan just another twisted torture device, meaning god if real is nothing more than a kid with a microscope!! but then we all KNOW, deep down, wether we are ready to admit it or not, he is NOT REAL, never has been, NEVER WILL BE. [FACT]. Im pretty sure the only reason scientists havent "proven" it to be lies yet is because then we'd have to put down most of the religious monkeys! (its also a huge business, so of course "profit before truth" is the way of the world is it not?)

I Think this images says it all:

I know exactly how you feel; I consider myself a Christian but don’t like religious dogma. I look at all the evil in the world done in the name of God and feel sickened by it. I travel a lot so I get to talk to people from all over the world and have pretty much sampled every mainstream Christian denomination you can think of. I also have friends from practically every belief and non-belief system in the world. We all get along just fine and can have discussions without spilling each other’s blood. I’ve found that most modern denominations are more concerned with finding the right business model and message to fill their coffers and their pews and don’t focus on the spiritual health of their congregation. Of course in our instant gratification society people look for that magic bullet that makes everything all right. Most people aren’t willing to put forth the effort to search God out. I’ve been asked why I should have to search God out; If God exists he would make himself know to me. The arrogance of that statement never ceases to amaze me!! I can tell you I’m no angel and my personal journey has been through many a desert!! Honestly I’m 48 years old and still searching. Some people will say that’s proof enough that God doesn’t exist. I couldn’t disagree more strongly!! Its human nature to question and seek out truth but free will is a two edged sword!! The choice is eternally yours.

Thanks for starting this thread I’ve enjoyed the discussion!!

reply to post by kallisti36


I think any good Christian believer, would be best, aside from scheduling purposes, to first burn their calendar, then smash a watch, and turning away from "time", recognize the spirit of the living God as being eternal, and get busy practicing the presence through the eternally unfolding present moment, worshipping in spirit and in truth, always. The meaning of church is to "call out from". Christians - come out of your church and move the world!

Originally posted by The Djin

Originally posted by kallisti36

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by kallisti36

 

How often are you confronted by religion in society today? Rarely ever, right?

hallelujah

*Ahem* Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I guess you must live in the Bible belt, because this is the only place I've ever lived (New Orleans) where I was confronted with religion in public. The only place I have been confronted with religion outside of a Chruch in 5/6 of these states are the Christian channels and Fox News. The only religion I'm confronted with here in California is trendy psuedo-Buddhism and Scientology

, so I guess the West Coast is "under a rock".

edit on 12-12-2010 by kallisti36 because: (no reason given)

Did you miss the bit "In god we trust" on your currency ?

I don't really want to be rude here but come on we are confronted by religion at every level, take education for example, look at the fuss the christians over creation not being taught in the classrooms.

I live on the opposite side of the Atlantic by the way, and religion is shoved in my face wherever I turn my head, over here it is "Law" that religious assembly is forced upon children .

So ok I apologist for being flippant and a tad rude in my first response but at the end of the day there is ample evidence to the contrary of your initial claim.

"In God We Trust" is not religion, it's kindof like using god as an expletive. When someone stubs their toe and exclaims "Jesus Christ!" is that forcing religion down everyone's throats? No it's not. Infact that would be taking the Lord's name in vain loaded into our everyday language. "In God We Trust" is an afterthought. How much time do you spend looking at your money?

Being exposed to religion is when Mormons come knocking, you run across a street preacher, an ugly red headed guy walks past with a cardboard sign with "the end is nigh" written in big letters, maybe passing a church (if you think about it), or when a Christian starts a thread on ATS and puts it in the General Conspiracies forum where an athiest is more likely to read it. The difference between these things and "In God We Trust" is that you actually think about it. When you are actually confronted with these things, these people, they actually get your attention.

I do have to admit that the East Coast is the one geographical area of the U.S. I have not lived, so perhaps you do have religion shoved down your throat every day.

reply to post by S3ns1bl3

Monkeys eh? Did you say "put down" the monkeys when science proves us wrong..?

how sad.. for you!

It is unbelievable the amount of ignorance around here. (bowing and shaking head in sorrow)

Originally posted by Mizzijr
reply to post by slowisfast

 

This is true, however the Sabbath is Saturday, that's God's day for Him to be praised, that's the day He chose. That's kind of like saying if it's you birthday on Dec.24th and nobody acknowledges your birthday until the 25th every year lol messed up huh?

i hear ya. it makes for good discussion without taking away from the message itself.
Him.

Originally posted by S3ns1bl3
Religion IS THE CONSPIRACY.

Lies told by men so they could get power, just like the men of today, the only difference is that religion has lost most of its real power, Lets be honest we all KNOW god does not exist (at least in terms of any our religions) He is fake, a story create to explain things that at the time where unexplainable, what proof is there that ANYTHING in the bible happened? Really? NONE, no more than any other fictional story from that time period, and then of course just look at the world! greed & power is idolized, greed at some point even became a virtue, an acceptable trait ! (thank you America!)

The pope for example created rules & regulations to protect pedophiles & silence the victims, If theres a god do you think he's tolerate that? do you actually want to be part of that? If thats what god stands for I'll take my chances with "satan"!! Then we have Aids, birth defects & a whole host of other things, that would mean if there was a god, he would be one evil twisted S.O.B.,


Also my biggest issue with religion (the one IMO shows that is it FAKE) Is The Devil, Satan. If Hell & satan is real, WHY would he punish people for being evil? It doesnt make sense. If he is "the source of all evil" WHY punish evil do'er, doesnt really make sense when you think about it. If satsn did punish poeple for being evil, that in turn would mena he wsa doing GODS WORK, wich would bascailly make satan just another twisted torture device, meaning god if real is nothing more than a kid with a microscope!! but then we all KNOW, deep down, wether we are ready to admit it or not, he is NOT REAL, never has been, NEVER WILL BE. [FACT]. Im pretty sure the only reason scientists havent "proven" it to be lies yet is because then we'd have to put down most of the religious monkeys! (its also a huge business, so of course "profit before truth" is the way of the world is it not?)

I Think this images says it all:

edit on 13-12-2010 by S3ns1bl3 because: Spelling

We all KNOW do we? I wouldn't feel very honest saying God does not exist when I have experienced otherwise.

As for the Pope, I cannot stress enough that the man is no Christian. Infact, there is plenty of Biblical evidence to support the assertation that the RCC is the Whore of Babylon. The doctrine of Sola Popa destroys any need for individual thought and allows him to corrupt the scriptures in any way he desires. Look at the RCC ten commandments compared with the Jews and the rest of Christendom. Then go in a RC church and look at all of the statues. Maybe they aren't idols, but the Pope certainly didn't want anyone asking the question.

"what proof is there that ANYTHING in the bible happened?" Read a history book. Infact, scholars who beleive Yeshuah never existed are in the minority now.

" If Hell & satan is real" they are, but you misunderstand "hell". Hell is a blanket translation for three words in the original Greek and Hebrew Bibles. The words are: Hades (Greek underworld, no flames), Sheol (Hebrew abode of the dead, alot like Hades, again no flames), and Gehenna (flaming, disgusting, and a place you can visit in Jerusalem, because it was a perpetually burning garbage dump! Common metaphor for God's wrath during Yeshuah's time). The blanket translation began with the Latin Vulgate which translated all of these words into "infernus" and thus a misconception is born and perpetuated by the RCC

"The pope for example created rules & regulations to protect pedophiles & silence the victims, If theres a god do you think he's tolerate that? do you actually want to be part of that? If thats what god stands for I'll take my chances with "satan"!! Then we have Aids, birth defects & a whole host of other things, that would mean if there was a god, he would be one evil twisted S.O.B." The Pope shall answer for his crimes unless he repents. Yes, even the wicked may be forgiven if they accept Yeshuah's sacrifice and turn from their ways. One day you will understand that how stupid and pointless anger and hatred are in the world to come. But will you realize this because you have moved beyond them or will you learn this lesson in regret (the true "hell" of being cast out of the Kingdom of God)? It really does make me sad when people blame the the shortcomings of their race on God. Do not be so quick to throw your lot in with Satan, "for he was a murderer from the beginning". The interesting thing about your list of terrible things is you can chalk all of those up to men except all birth defects (fetal alcohol syndrome, crack babies, and incest aside).

I'm afraid you are speaking from a stance of theological ignorance. Go read the Bible, all of it, I dare you. If you aren't moved by it, or atleast have a better understanding of Judeo-Christian beliefs then you can come back and call me an ---hole for making you read a huge book.

I will pray for you also.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by kallisti36

 

I think any good Christian believer, would be best, aside from scheduling purposes, to first burn their calendar, then smash a watch, and turning away from "time", recognize the spirit of the living God as being eternal, and get busy practicing the presence through the eternally unfolding present moment, worshipping in spirit and in truth, always. The meaning of church is to "call out from". Christians - come out of your church and move the world!

Here, here! Make every day the Sabbath

Great thread, starred.

Originally posted by kallisti36
Beware the distractions on the road. Many, once aware of their souls, seek to exalt them in their pride. This is the occult. You are in the infancy stages of your spiritual development (please know that I mean no offence) and many seek to corrupt your newly found spirit. I cannot stress enough that you do not allow this to happen. It would be better had you never found your spirit in the first place, because your punishment will be worse than those of meat and tubes (this is not a 'fire and brimstone' speech, I'll make a thread about the misconceptions of "hell", Sheol, and Hades later), because "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required". Eventually, if you remain vigilant, you shall come into knowledge of the Godhead.

Doesn't the quote mean something like if you have received much wisdom it takes a great deal of effort to fit them in a constructive worldview? Besides having to spend time and energy on daily mundane activities it takes extra effort to try and explore the spirit in order to develop it. That is at the base of the denial of the spirit imho, life is demanding as it is, no need for more confusion, even if spiritual practices imply the confusion would lessen many would not want to begin exploring the mind because at some subconscious level one knows it's a ton of work, better to leave it alone and be lulled into safety by modern science.

All shall be judged save those who have recieved the mercy of Yeshuah the Christ.

The heaven I'm going to has no judgment. All the things which make people bad in this life do not exist there; an abundance of everything for everyone, no physical rules, the imagination is the only limit. What makes people bad on this Earth is the simple fact of finity; one day there will not be enough space or resources on this globe for the population, all actions of TPTB are directed by this simple fact, as reflected in the thought of having to prove oneself to some advanced being in order to gain admission to some heaven (no offense intended).

Good post chap, stars and a flag for you.

My personal thoughts are that people arnt abandoning thier religioins, infact i would suggest that in some cases its stronger then every (Islam for example)

I think alot of people either conciously or subconciously try to live thier lives acroding to religion and thier various teachings (Love thy fellow man, thall shall not kill, love thy neighbour). Weather thier religious or not we all try to be good people.

People need a new path in life, and aithiesm is the perfect choice, you are free to live your life as you see fit without the dogmatic guilt of modern day religion.

Everybody knows in thier hearts whats right and whats wrong, you dont need a religion watching over your shoulder judging your every action.

If you'l excuse the expression, its every person god given right to live thier lives as they see fit, they shouldnt be judged on thier actions regardles of a specific religion. Faith, truth and freedom are the new religion, and they rock!

Originally posted by The Djin

Genesis So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him;

So there you go bearing in mind the bald ape was given the instruction by said sky god not to remove his beard.

And where does it say that "in his own image" refers to the physical looks of God? After all, we all look different, don't we? Which one of us looks the most like God?

Or is it maybe possible that "in his own image" is a bit more metaphorical, referring perhaps (just as one possible speculation) to the idea that the Universe itself is self-aware, and we are independent, self-aware beings, basically a "spiritual microcosm" of the Universe itself?

The alternative is that the Universe is an unconscious inanimate system, all the basic building blocks are inanimate, but somehow put that stuff together in the right configuration and you get a consciousness capable of experience. Good luck coming up with a theory of how that works. Especially considering that experience must come first in any human logical system, and so all those physical building blocks are inductive inferences derived from experience. Daniel Dennett tried so valiantly, bless his heart, to come up with the materialist explanation, and failed.

You've really sort of proved one of the OP's points here, that atheists often have quite narrow-minded views on the nature of God. Perhaps your typical uneducated brainwashed religio thinks God is something external, and this is the notion that atheists are reacting to, but everyone I've talked to who is somewhat serious about spirituality does not see God as some external entity separate from the Universe or separate from the beings in it.

reply to post by NewlyAwakened



I have no other choice right now that to believe that God Almighty is very real and physical. That the angels and very real and Physical and that they reside on a planet not some magical spiritual plateau. So I am saying the Angels are Aliens of a race created by the Almighty and we were created in his own image. Except we don’t have immortality we have a spiritual soul or a fleck of god in us that so wants to connect to the Creator of the stars.

Time and time again we as children were brought up knowing the adverse effects of screwing up. We knew it was wrong to lie about this or that. We knew is was wrong to sneak out or sneak under or what ever it was that inhibited us from doing what we wanted as kids. But did it stop there?. Did we as adults draw a box around out feet and proclaim everything within that box as good, acceptable and wholesome? Yeah, you get my drift here. I am speaking about when you were about 25 or 30 and all the sudden all the mistakes of your parents were evident through your actions and BAM judgment is passed and you can do it better. But wait. LET ME DRAW A BIGGER BOX SO AS TO ACCEPT A BIGGER DEVIATION TO DUCK A BIGGER JUDGEMENT. Sound familiar? It should. That sums up the lives of most and I venture that the rest are not telling the truth....
What makes you tell the truth?
What makes you tell a Lie? A boss once told me "He who tells no lies cannot speak!!” We all have. But tell me, did you think out that elaborate Tale or what?
Did you scheme that woman or man and bed him or her down?
Did you steal from your company even a minute of time to extend a break or take something even as small as a bolt or washer. Extra time in the bathroom would qualify. How ever did I know?
Welcome to the human race.
Welcome to Free will.
Is there a Devil or are we of free will with the option to do or not do as we know we should. Hummmm ponder for a moment. Did the Devil make me do it or did I do it because I wanted to. That is the biggest question I think we could ever be asked...
Temptation: we see in the books of the bible that Christ was tempted. Hummmm what if that never took place at all. Isn’t that where we get all reference that someone else should be implicated in the choices that we make?
Couldn’t we just be exposed to free will and choose what ever path we choose and be KEY WORD (responsible) for our actions?
Here is a what if.....What if the real judgment is at the depth we tried to connect to the creator?

reply to post by King Seesar

They weren't just killing each other over their religious differences though were they? Being Catholic was a damn good indication that you were a Republican/Sinn Fien (Unified Ireland) supporter and being protestant was a good indication that you were a Unionist (pro UK).

Religion is very often used to pedal political and nationist ideals is it not?
Thankfully -since the good friday agreement things are alot more progressive...about the only good thing Tony Blair had anything todo with.