North Korea’s Military Strength. No Pushovers!

If politics, and the "rules of war" were out of the picture, I'm absolutely sure we (the US of A) could completely wipe North Korea off the map, even without the use of Nuclear arms, but we'd be monsters (rightfully so) in the eyes of the "World Community". The civilian casualties, and the whole sale slaughter would be widely condemned. Of course, if this was to happen in the "real" world, we'd have some very scary consequences (mainly China, and their allies). BUT, if we were not constrained by any "rules of engagement", or respect for human life, we'd utterly destroy them. Hell, we have enough nuclear arms to destroy all life on this planet, hundreds of times over.

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reply to post by justwokeup


A pretty astute observation that I agree with. The question isn't whether the DPRK will be defeated but if China will allow DPRK to be defeated. China does more trade with RoK than DPRK and that is a good thing, but given the lack of international and military experience at the top levels of our current administration I'm concerned.

I served in the US Army in the mid nineties. Even though I never served in RoK, I had lots of peers and superiors that did. Even after the US led coalitions lopsided defeat of Saddam's "one of world's largest armies" earlier in the decade, no one I know who served in RoK ever considered a war with DPRK anything but a nightmare scenario. The joke amongst those that served in RoK during the '90s (while DPRK was in the midst of a famine) was "if the Norks are coming South it's not just to kill you but to eat you".

Tensions and incidents between the Koreas have been going on half a century now. These past couple do seem different and therefore more concerning especially with a leadership change in progress in DPRK. We have various nations around the world on the brink in so many ways (economic, political, social), and I cannot name a time when so many stresses on so many countries did not end in a major war. The Korean penninsula is the perfect flashpoint to start other dominoes falling.

On somewhat related but slightly off topic note. Has anyone else noticed that in the US the demographic that is hit hardest by unemployment is military aged youths?

Having been in the US military for 4 years, and have had to study military tactics and looking at history, one can often tell what is going on. If you look at the history of the world as it stands, along with the current history and the way the countries are allied, then things will start to be very clear. North Korea is not a country to go against in a military way. It would not just be conventional, but also guerrilla and unconventional tactics. The last report I ever saw about North Korea, and this should be of interest, was the level of dedication that they people there have towards the leaders. Yes he believes he is a god, and is treated like such. The military works to keep him in power, and every one is walking a very fine line as not to be reported for speaking ill of the leader. The problems would further be complicated by such a war, as to who is and is not the enemy. The very people that we would seek to liberate, the question would be, do you trust them, knowing that one could, turn around and stab you in the back?
But that is just part of the logistics nightmare for those you are having to plan such an attack. The next question would be, how far would they go? Too far and China will definitely get involved, not far enough and the entire conflict would be for nothing.
Then there are the allies of North Korea. It has been, for the past 10 years or more, cultivating very close alliances with different countries around the world, beyond China. How would those allies act and what damage would they be able to inflict on the US while the US was engaged with North Korea? And what are they up to right now, along with what technology has been shared between them? China knows more than it is saying.
It seems when ever there is attention to be drawn away, one of the allies tends to make a noise to get the worlds attention drawn away from the others. So right now North Korea is doing a bit of a display of force, what is Iran or even Venezuela up to? What are they doing, while every one is looking at the Korean peninsula? It seems like every time one thing happens, the other shoes drop and other things begin to fall into place. It is a very dangerous game of smoke and mirrors. Can North Korea affect US assets and interests and do damage, yes and no. No, cause they would have to have a technology boost to do such, yes, but it would be an indirect striking, working through its allies to assist them in taking on the US. This time around it would be far worse than the last time and it would end up being a very costly war for all sides involved.

mwaa 13.000 pieces of artillery only needs plus/minus 3000 sortie's to pick them out in an few houers..
peace of cake for the US fighters...
are all US basis in line of NK fire?

Of course the NK have Nukes they got them from the U$

Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, sat on the board of a company which three years ago sold two light water nuclear reactors to North Korea - a country he now regards as part of the "axis of evil" and which has been targeted for regime change by Washington because of its efforts to build nuclear weapons

www.guardian.co.uk...

Remember the Cuban missle crisis, where the US put missles in turkey and then got all pissey because the russians responded by putting some in Cuba but the US didn't tell the peeps about the weapons they had put in Turkey they just slagged the Ruskies and the Cubans?
typical same same

South Korea considers return of US tactical nuclear weapons

www.guardian.co.uk...

Originally posted by Crutchley29

Originally posted by Itop1
If America couldnt beat some taliban with rusting guns and rocked mounted camels as tanks, i highly doubt they would stand a chance of even putting a dent in north korea, especially since its on the other side of the world with like 10+ million fighting power......

if you think otherwise, just remember vietnam and this whole iraq, afghanistan thing..... we dont want war with north korea at any cost, and no, america would not be able to save the day, millions would die.

You are confusing gorilla warfare with conventional, North Korea will opt for the latter, this is not a rag tag group of militia, this will be a standing army, something which the American military is geared towards.

North Korean Special Forces which are arguably the largest spec ops forces in the world are geared for counter insurgency operations too - all 120,000 of them. This is part of their doctrine. They are also trained in graduated escalation from CI ops to guerrilla warfare in a protracted conflict. The Americans have little idea on fighting this type of war.

Few probably are aware that American Forces are being trained by the Indian Army at their Counter Insurgency and Jungle Warfare School in the jungles of Eastern India. But guerrilla warfare is a different ball game altogether. And this isn't part of the training. But N Korean special forces are adept at this kind of warfare.

US/S Korean Forces therefore need to prosecute and win the war in quick time before the conflict turns into protracted guerrilla warfare. And finishing off the North Koreans quickly is not going to happen. The Pentagon's aware of this and therefore will never launch a pre-emptive attack. It would be the North Koreans who would initiate a war if ever it comes down to that.

However, I don't think that war is an option. Shadow boxing is what will continue with a few skirmishes at some points along the DMZ.

Originally posted by bdb818888
The US would just bomb the hell out of them , like we did in Iraq.

North Korea isn't Iraq! Those who are trying to equate the two are barking up the wrong tree! There's absolutely NO comparison! Period!

They would be left to running suicide bombing missions.

Is that good or bad? Imagine suicide missions against all American assets around the world! And that's bad, real bad!!

Those americans that think bombing North Korea will be key to success must be sent to first line of war. Then they will remember Stalingrad from WW2 - hungry bad equiped russians(and part of them was not soldiers) stay till death but did not retreat. And german troops did not win.
Something like this will happen in North Korea because most of population there will fight to protect their homeland, because they trust in this and dont have other possibility...

I don't understand why everyone is talking about NK being a pushover for the good ole USA...
Last I heard, it was a skirmish between SK and NK..

If war breaks out between the two it would be very bad, but if the US jumps in with all guns blazing then I see no choice but for China to help NK...

So I don't see NK being the pushover everyone is stating simply because the US can not afford a war that involves China.
The public wouldn't stand for more US casualties over a war in another foreign land. IMHO...

Originally posted by NeverApologize
The United States can bury North Korea.

Please refeain from such a high level of homour. You made me spitt my tea out!
How on earth is American going to buy NK. Youre printed currency is worth nothing and you have no money.
Thats also assuming NK was for sale, which it is not..
As for you thinking it would be a push over.. Is this the same kind of push over that far less formidible enemies have been in the past... Like Vietnam. I guess you would say that Iraq and afganistan are too.. Yes, the evidence speaks volumes. You cannot win against a bunch of rocket launching Arabs living in caves and you really think that a nuclear nation, with one of the largest miliary complexes in the world and deep underground bunker systems would be a push over...
and that without there buddies china helping out...

You amaze me, really you do...
If i could i would give you a star for your homour

kx

not to mention ONE non nuclear explosive cobalt 60 on the jet steam just off the coast of the USof A
Like that missle plane or plane missle the other day or in an airliner or even on a boat
and well...

COBALT 60

Interesting perspective.

I always love it when People talk about a war with North Korea they always discount the South Korean Military. I think if the US and China stayed out of it. I feel South Korea alone could take North Korea. People tend to forget that South Korea when compared to North Korea is an Industrial Giant in their own right. Which includes and not limited to - Shipbuilding, Automobiles, Construction Equipment and Armaments. Korea's remarkable technological advancements and industrialization allowed Korea to produce increasingly more powerful military equipment.


They have one of the worlds largest heavy industrial Ship yard. etc. If war was to break out between the two YES Seoul would take a beating from the North but if history has taught us anything it's that in war cities get bombed and or sacked [Stalingrad]?

Let's look at South Korea's military.
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They may be out numbered but they have better equipment. Just like in the two major recent conflicts in the ME which showed Western Technology in a conventional war vs Soviet/Russian equipment, the West always seems to trump the East. We are talking about a conventional war.

[Not Gorilla tactics like Vietnam or Afghanistan] Anybody can plant a bomb then run away and hide while killing one or two policemen/Soldiers and taking out a dozen or so school children or old ladies in the process


Setting North Korea's Nuclear ability aside for now. [we'll get back to that later]

The South has better, more advanced western based Hardware. Not antiquated outdated [For the most part] Soviet era equipment like the North has.

South Korean Army

The army consists of the Army Headquarters, the Aviation Command, and the Special Warfare Command, with 11 corps, 49 divisions, and 19 brigades, some 522,000 troops and estimated as many as 5,850 tanks/armored vehicles, 11,337 artillery systems, 7,032 missile defense systems and 13,000 infantry support systems.

Tanks of the ROK Army include the older M48A5, T-80U as well as the more recent K1 and K1A1 which bear a 120 mm smoothbore gun and are of local manufacture. The ROK Army has 2,872 tanks, including 1,524 K1 and K1A1 tanks.

The future replacement for the K1 MBT has been baptized the XK2 Black Panther (Korean: 흑표), which will be fitted with a 1,500 hp (1,100 kW) water-cooled Diesel engine, 120 mm/L55 main gun, and coaxial machine guns. The new tank will also feature radar equipment as well as all-bearing laser detection system and reactive armor comparable to the American M1A2 and French Leclerc.

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In addition South Korea already manufactures the indigenous K-9 Thunder howitzers, which have been exported to Turkey, as well as the K200 series KIFV's which saw action in UN peacekeeping operations as part of the Malaysian peacekeeping forces. A variation of the K200, the KAFV, can be retrofitted to bear a 90 mm barrel or 40 mm grenade turret or M230-1 chain gun or MK-30 30mm chain gun turret.

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South Korean Navy

The ROK Navy had about 68,000 regular personnel including the 27,000 Republic of Korea Marine Corps personnel as of 2008. There are some 170 commissioned ships (total displacement of approx. 153,000 tons[6]) in the ROK Navy, including approximately 10 submarines, 80 patrol craft and 20 auxiliaries as of October 2007. The naval aviation forces consist of about 10 fixed-wing and 50 rotary-wing aircraft. The Marine Corps operates about 400 tracked vehicles including self-propelled artillery.[7]

In the first decade of the 21st century, the ROK Navy launched the lead ships of newly developed types: in 2002, ROKS Chungmugong Yi Sunshin (DDH 975), a 4,500-ton destroyer, was launched; in 2005, the 14,000-ton amphibious landing ship, ROKS Dokdo (LPH 6111) was launched; in 2006, the ROK Navy launched the Sohn Won-yil (SS 072), an 1,800-ton Type 214 submarine with Air-Independent propulsion (AIP) system. In 2007, the ROK Navy launched the lead ship (DDG 991) of the King Sejong the Great class destroyer, built around the Aegis combat system and the SPY-1D multi-function phased array radar. The ROK Navy is undertaking several shipbuilding projects: Korean Destroyer Experimental (KDX) program, Frigate Experimental (FFX), Landing Platform Experimental (LPX), Patrol Killer Experimental (PKX), and Korean Submarine (KSS) program.

South Korean Marines

ROK Marines have the ability to accomplish a variety of missions including ground battles, special fighting scenarios, facility protection and security services. To execute amphibious operations, it possesses a range of amphibious equipment, including amphibious vehicles, as well as its own means of fire support.

They train alongside US Marines. They are NO pushovers!
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South Korean Airforce

South Korea maintains a modern air force in order to defend itself from various modes of threats, including the North Korean Army, which fields about twice as many aircraft. As of 2007, it operated more than 180 KF-16C/Ds, 234 F-5A/B/E/Fs, 130 F-4D/Es, 32 F-15Ks with the rest of the 29 F-15Ks being delivered by June 2010, and a number of South Korean made KAI A-50s among its combat aircraft. The Korean variant of F-15E were named F-15K Slam Eagles. South Korea became one of the world's few aircraft exporters when it exported 19 KT-1B indigenous training aircraft to Indonesia in 2003.

Korean Aerospace Industries, the South Korean national aerospace company, has plans to export more KT-1 and T-50 Golden Eagle supersonic trainer aircraft. The Republic of Korea Air Force also expressed interests in acquiring the RQ-4 Global Hawk and Joint Direct Attack Munition kits to further improve their intelligence and offensive capabilities.

Most if not all models mentioned In South Korea's inventory have been real world Combat tested. Unlike the MiG-29. Which by the way even Russia has taken them out of service.
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Now let's talk about North Korea's Nuclear, Biological and or Chemical weapons. In other words the dreaded WMDs

I'll guarantee you that if North Korea started lobbing any of that towards South Korea, South Korea's BIG Brother has more of the same at their disposal than North Korea and China combined.
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reply to post by SLAYER69


A few of the pics were of US equipment but I get your point..
I think the problem for SK would not be in a war from afar but rather if NK physically invaded SK..
NK has more trained troops and they are brainwashed to die for their country..
SK are more westernised and soft..
Also, all the advantages of navy and airforce are obsolete in a full on invasion scenario,,

reply to post by SLAYER69

I had the pleasure of being in war games (92) with the Republic of Korea Army the White Tigers and IMHO I would walk the field of battle any day with them They are some of the finest in the world.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
All models mentioned In South Korea's inventory have been real world Combat tested. Unlike the MiG-29. Which by the way even Russia has taken them out of service.

May I ask who told this to you? The Mig-29 Fulcrum is still active in the Russian Air Force. They're currently upgrading all Fulcrums to Mig-29SMTs. And there is the Mig-29OVT, which is the prelude of the much advanced Mig-35 Fulcrum-F which is also based on the Mig-29 chassis.

www.youtube.com...

You know while the Americans are making nice aerial maneuvers in Hollywood movies (i.e. Stealth as this movie also shows it in the beginning), the Mig-29OVT is capable to do all those tricks in the reality (Check the video up from 8:00. This is what an American fighter is rarely can do in combat, while most next gen Russian crafts are capable to do this in close combat.). Underestimating a Mig is used to be the last mistakes in a pilot's life.

reply to post by backinblack


I recall Sadaam's troops were brainwashed to die for him too. They were told US forces would eat them if they surrendered during the first gulf war. They surrendered in the thousands just like soldiers from the north would do. They don't want to die for their dictator they want freedom.

South Korea could easily handle NK with some air support from the US. I don't believe NK even has nuclear weapons. Just more BS spewed by their leaders all these years.

The US will not win a "war" until their government treats a war as a WAR!

Sending troops into combat to be police, protectors, etc, is assinine.

The US military machine is designed with one purpose (as is any real military).

Punish your enemies. Obliterate them, use every and any advantage you have to win.

As soon as politicians hamstring the military (Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc,) the war is lost before it starts.

I say this knowing that I would hate the day the US military is given free reign in a combat zone.

Would redefine "shock and awe".

reply to post by Sentinel412


You're right. i was relying on older information.
But let me ask you about their REAL WORLD combat operations compared to the equipment South Korea is using. Mind you the US has been left out of this hypothetical equation
Source

The Russian Air Force grounded all its MiG-29s following a crash in Siberia on 17 October 2008.[19] Following a second crash with an MiG-29 in east Siberia in December 2008,[20][21] Russian officials admitted that most MiG-29 fighters in the Russian Air Force were incapable of performing combat duties due to poor maintenance. The age of the aircraft was also an important factor as about 70% of the MiGs were considered to be too old to take to the skies.[22] The Russian MiG-29s have not received updates since the collapse of the Soviet Union. This is because the Russian Air Force chose to upgrade the Su-27 and MiG-31 instead. On 4 February 2009, the Russian Air Force resumed flights with the MiG-29.[23]

However, in March 2009, 91 MiG-29s of the Russian Air Force required repair after inspections due to corrosion; approximately 100 MiGs were cleared to continue flying at the time.[24][25] The Russian Air Force has now started an update of its early MiG-29s to the more current MiG-29SMT standard and have bought 23 new MiG-29SMTs

reply to post by purplemer

If and I mean a big IF this war starts the Iraq and Afgan.wars are not comparable to this scenario. The war on terror you have a combatant that lives along side Innocent people and hide amongst them. Where as NK there is 1 soldier for every 5 citizens. That is a lot of targets moving all in unison one larger target to say. Im not saying its going to be a walk in the park. but comparing the two is like comparing apples to hand grenades.