North Korea’s Military Strength. No Pushovers!

North Korean military parade

Well, this one’s not about a full scale war between N Korea and the U.S. but against the strategic assets of America in and around South Korea. What is the US and South Korea up against? What is the force level they would be facing?

Some must be under the impression that N Korea will be a pushover where a conventional war is concerned and due to this asymmetry in force levels, N Korea would be forced to deploy nuclear weapons. This scenario is most unlikely. However, if the US mounts a preemptive strike on North Korea's Yongbyon nuclear plants, North Korea will retaliate with weapons of mass destruction: North Korea will mount strategic nuclear attacks on US targets. But take a look at what N Korea can throw against the combined U.S – S Korean forces and you’ll realise it’s not going to be easy to defeat N Korea into submission.

Western press and analysts distort the truth and depict North Korea as an "impoverished" nation, starving and on the brink of imminent collapse. An impoverished, starving nation cannot face down a military superpower. Today few nations have military assets strong enough to challenge the US military.

Yes they can! In the Korean Peninsula.

North Korea's military is organized into several independent, totally integrated and self-sufficient fighting units that are ready for action at any time. But the most important factors of all are the levels of motivation and indoctrination of the N Korean soldiers willing to lay down their lives for their ‘king’.

N Korean Ground Forces

North Korea's regular Army:

North Korea army is composed of approximately 1,003,000 personnel organized into 20 corps consisting of 176 divisions and brigades, 8,000 heavy guns, and 2,000 tanks placed in more than 4,000 hardened bunkers within 150 km of the DMZ.

Four corps in the forward areas.
Eight corps in the rear areas.
One tank corps
Four armored corps
Two artillery corps
One corps for the defense of Pyongyang
25 Special Forces brigades (possibly the largest in the world).

(North Korea has 80 infantry divisions* and brigades. )South Korea in contrast has 19 infantry divisions.

*A North Korean infantry division has 3 infantry regiments, 1 artillery regiment (3 battalions of 122 mm rocket launchers and 1 battalion of 152 mortars), one tank battalion of 31 tanks, one anti-tank battalion, one anti-aircraft battalion, one engineer battalion, one communication battalion, one light-infantry battalion, one recon battalion, and one chemical warfare battalion.



Artillery

The two Artillery corps mentioned above consist of 30 Artillery brigades equipped with 120mm self-propelled guns, 152mm self-propelled mortars, 170mm guns with a range of 50 km, 240 mm multiple rocket launchers with a range of 45 km, and other heavy guns. In all, North Korea has about 18,000 heavy guns.

Since most of the ‘big boys’ are deployed in tunnels with shoot and scoot capabilities, the US/S Korean recon and counter bombardment assets will be severely restricted. Even the cruise missiles fired from American Naval Strike Groups would find it difficult to hit the well concealed N Korean long range artillery gun positions. The US army bases at Yijong-bu, Paju, Yon-chun, Munsan, Ding-gu-chun, and Pochun could be obliterated in a matter of hours!

The Tank Corps

Where N Korea’s tank corps is concerned, it has one tank corps and 15 independent tank brigades. The tank corps has 5 tank regiments (brigades), each of which has 4 heavy tank battalions, 1 light-tank battalion, one mechanized infantry battalion, and 2 self-propelled artillery battalions.

North Korea has developed tanks ideally suited for the riverine terrain and mountains of Korea. These tanks are called "Chun-ma-ho", which can navigate steep slopes and cross rivers as much as 5.5 m deep. North Korea's main battle tanks, - the T-62s - have 155 mm guns and can travel as fast as 60 km per hour.

Though the much heavier US Abrams is superior in most respects, the combined US/S Korean armored forces will find it extremely difficult to maneuver in such terrain.

Armored / Mechanized Corps

North Korea has 4 mechanized corps consisting of 24 mechanized brigades. Each brigade has 1 tank battalion (31 tanks), 1 armored battalion (46 armored cars), 4 infantry battalions, one 122mm battalion (18 guns), one 152 mm battalion (18 guns), one anti-aircraft battalion (18 guns), anti-tank battalion (9 armored cars with *anti-tank missiles and 12 anti-tank guns), one armored recon company (3 light armored cars, 7 armored cars, and 8 motor-cycles), one mortar company (6 mortars), one engineer company, one chemical company, and one communication company.

* North Korea has more than 15,000 shoulder-fired anti-air missiles ("wha-sung").

Special Forces

North Korea has possibly the largest number of Special Forces in the world, 25 brigades consisting of 120,000 spec ops troops. These troops are grouped into light infantry brigades, attack brigades, air-borne brigades, and sea-borne brigades. These troops will be tasked to attack US military installations in Korea, Japan, Okinawa and Guam.

WMDs/NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) weapons and delivery systems are not being discussed here. This would require a separate thread. But check out the link below for more details.



Air Force


DPRKAF MiG-29C armed with R-60 missiles
Courtesy: acig.org

Much of N Korea’s air force is obsolete consisting of the older MiG series like the MiG-21 and a few later MiG variants like the MiG-25MLs and MiG-29s. In addition, they have Su-25s and J-6s - about 1000 fighter planes in all. Needless to say, their air force is no match for US planes. The KPAF is primarily an air defense force, with limited offensive capability. However, the latter should also be wary of the more than 15,000 shoulder fired anti aircraft missiles in N Korea’s armory. Even a 1% overall kill probability would mean unacceptable damage to the USAF in the theatre.

In addition to the above….

North Korea's Militias

1.6 million self-defense personnel, 100,000 people's guards, 3.9 million worker’s militia, 900,000 youth guard. These militias are tasked to defend the homeland. The militias are fully armed and undergo military training regularly.


Tthe Demilitarized Zone(DMZ) between the two Koreas
Pic: visitasiaguide

Those who think that North Korea will be a cake walk and that the combined US/S Korean Forces can win a war in short time in the Korean peninsula may like to think again! It’s not going to be easy.

Refs:
en.wikipedia.org...
rense.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.b-29s-over-korea.com...

You are comparing Apples to Oranges. Very nicely organized post though, seriously!

The United States can bury North Korea. It is not a matter of NK's Military strength preventing an attack on them, it is politics! We all know that if we smash NK like the little turd that they are we risk further damaging relations with China. The only way we can justify, in China's eye, smashing NK is by them attacking first; attacking the South.

So yes, in short without getting in depth, North Korea ARE a bunch of push overs. There military is a bunch of antiquated military left overs from China and Russia. We are at least 3-5 generations AHEAD of this murderous regime.

(I'm not too sure why this always turns into a "America is the agressor maaaan! They spread hate all over the World." Let's just remember what happens in NK before defending a HORRIBLE MURDEROUS REGIME...)

Would you like me to make a similar thread about the United States not being pushovers. I can assert that NO COUNTRY on the planet can match up to us. (Yes, I am a "America is the Greatest crowd!" You know why? Because they are... USA! USA! USA!)

US will not engage North Korea on the ground, they will instead...destroy North Korea's infrastructure, The Korean Peoples Army cannot stand against the United States in terms of Aerial fire power, I doubt their AA can even hit 5th generation fighters or for that matter detect them.

Korea use the Chonma-ho as an MBT along with some other T variant Russian post war tanks, the Chonma-ho itself is a slight upgrade from the T-62, needless to say they post little threat to even the ageing M1.

It wont come to this anyway. But if it did I doubt North Korea would last a week, this is not Iraq or Vietnam, this would be conventional warfare.

First of all whoever is underestimating the Mig25s and Mig29s, that one is in great mistake. Even those crafts are old, they're capable to give a serious blow to the U.S. Air Force. I know the Mig29s very well and trust me, they can give a great surprise to the U.S. Air Force. Those crafts are old, but they're damned trustworthy and the Fulcrums are capable to take down even the 5th generation fighters. And as NK has Russian technology and air defense, the U.S. stealth system worth nothing as the older Russian radar tech is capable to detect stealth crafts (It's not really advertised in the U.S., but it's a well known fact in those countries whose have or ever had Russian technology in air defense.).

And second, some of you says here no one can stand up against the mighty U.S. force. Now, here is a reminder: The U.S. just suffered two serious defeat in Afghanistan and Iraq from "Cavemen" with less advanced army. So please don't eleveate the U.S. forces to the heaven, because regardless they have the technological advantage, somehow they're still being defeated by low tech enemies.

Hint: No one can win a war from the air.

I'm not defending the NK, because personally I'd like to see the people of NK being liberated from Commie rule, but whoever says the U.S. is capable to defeat a country alone, especially NK which has a very large army, that one lives in an illusion.

reply to post by Crutchley29


HOORAH!
Second Line!

You made sense!

If America couldnt beat some taliban with rusting guns and rocked mounted camels as tanks, i highly doubt they would stand a chance of even putting a dent in north korea, especially since its on the other side of the world with like 10+ million fighting power......

if you think otherwise, just remember vietnam and this whole iraq, afghanistan thing..... we dont want war with north korea at any cost, and no, america would not be able to save the day, millions would die.

Originally posted by Itop1
If America couldnt beat some taliban with rusting guns and rocked mounted camels as tanks, i highly doubt they would stand a chance of even putting a dent in north korea, especially since its on the other side of the world with like 10+ million fighting power......

if you think otherwise, just remember vietnam and this whole iraq, afghanistan thing..... we dont want war with north korea at any cost, and no, america would not be able to save the day, millions would die.

You are confusing gorilla warfare with conventional, North Korea will opt for the latter, this is not a rag tag group of militia, this will be a standing army, something which the American military is geared towards.

America learned a lot from Iraq and Afghanistan, they were lured into street by street fighting which effectively nullified any technological edge they had, they were facing a enemy which could hide among civilians, North Korea is NOT the same.

reply to post by Sentinel412


Did you really just compare, ANY FIGHTER AIRCRAFT, to the F-22? I spit out a little bit of my morning coffee when I read that line!

The MIG's are using Vacuum tubes while we have been using microchips for decades. The F-22 can not be detected, let alone taken on by a MIG! Do you realize we have 23 (disclosed to the public) F-22 on the Korean Peninsula? Oh and lets not forget about our Airbases in Guam, Japan, and the Midlands, to name a few. There are an additional 24 F-22's in Japan. I have also failed to list the other aircraft that we have in the area! (F-15k's, F-15E's, F-16's, ETC!!!)

Let's not forget that the United States Air Force is some of the best trained pilots IN THE WORLD. If not the best... Maybe second the Israel.

Stop pretending in your mind that a pest like NK is remotely able to withstand a full on ass kickin by the United States Military. It is just not true...

The US would just bomb the hell out of them , like we did in Iraq , they would be left to running suicide bombing missions.

reply to post by NeverApologize

I was trained to be a Mig29 pilot, so trust me, even the F22 has it's disadvantage against that craft. It's old, but very trustworthy. Plus Russain technology has it's own advantage. Old Russian tech, radar and air defense is capable to detect stealth crafts, regardless how it is advertised on the U.S. side. This is a well known fact in those countries whose have or ever had Russian tech.

Plus comparing the Mig29 and the F22... the Mig29 is a harsh, but very reliable construction, capable to operate in the strongest winter or cold without any true maintenance. But the F22 is already malfunctioning if it's being hit by a stronger rain on the ground (As it's already happened few times.). F22 is a high tech craft, but it's high tech status is giving it's true disadvantage. It must be maintained much more time then any Russian crafts. The Migs are capable to do much more attack runs without maintenance and while the U.S. is servicing the F22s on the ground day by day, the Migs are happily rules the skies.

reply to post by Crutchley29


you need to do some homework.... firstly... america is about 8000 miles from north korea.... secondly, north korea DO have nuclear bombs which could easily be used against south korea and thirdly, like vietnam, north korea also has dence forests and mountains with underground networks.

Edit... and please dont forget about north koreas closest ally: China.... who have just warned america to turn around their aircraft carrier....

reply to post by Itop1

NK doesn't need to use nukes against Soeul. Unfortunately a stronger artillery strike is capable to level SK's capital anytime.

Originally posted by NeverApologize
North Korea ARE a bunch of push overs. There military is a bunch of antiquated military left overs from China and Russia. We are at least 3-5 generations AHEAD of this murderous regime.

That's what I'm worried about! The US of A is generations ahead, but a band of brigands, the Taliban, equipped with vintage Soviet era weapons is cocking a snook at us!! The US of A has failed to bring these pipsqueaks to book. 10 years on and we're floundering! They're having the last laugh! And that's embarrassing to say the least.

Now this tribe consists of not more than 10,000. But here we're talking of a million plus well motivated and indoctrinated personnel of North Korea! Oh yes, you'd contend that these wars are different - one counter insurgency and the other conventional. But remember, North Korean doctrine emphasizes on counter insurgency tactics too!

I don't like this one bit! It could get pretty messy!

Originally posted by Itop1
reply to post by Crutchley29

 

you need to do some homework.... firstly... america is about 8000 miles from north korea.... secondly, north korea DO have nuclear bombs which could easily be used against south korea and thirdly, like vietnam, north korea also has dence forests and mountains with underground networks.

America have one of the only blue water naval fleets in the world, they can be anywhere at any time.

And you actually believe North Korea would launch nuclear weapons?..do you know what would happen if they did?

And please..you cannot compare the Viet Cong with the North Korean army, that is just absurd!

North Korea: Standing Army.

Viet Cong: Militia

Originally posted by Crutchley29
US will not engage North Korea on the ground, they will instead...destroy North Korea's infrastructure, The Korean Peoples Army cannot stand against the United States in terms of Aerial fire power, I doubt their AA can even hit 5th generation fighters or for that matter detect them.

Korea use the Chonma-ho as an MBT along with some other T variant Russian post war tanks, the Chonma-ho itself is a slight upgrade from the T-62, needless to say they post little threat to even the ageing M1.

It wont come to this anyway. But if it did I doubt North Korea would last a week, this is not Iraq or Vietnam, this would be conventional warfare.

edit on 27-11-2010 by Crutchley29 because: (no reason given)

New North Korean tank

M-2002 Pokpoong-ho



How can the latest North Korean MBT stand a chance against the latest southern counterparts?

Originally posted by Crutchley29
And you actually believe North Korea would launch nuclear weapons?..do you know what would happen if they did?
Viet Cong: Militia

edit on 27-11-2010 by Crutchley29 because: (no reason given)

If america launched nukes, im pretty damn sure North Korea would, being the communist regime they are.... especially if they though they were going to lose, when a country has nothing to lose, they would do anything to regain their control and power, even if it means launching a nuclear attack.

North Korea also has millions of militia.....

reply to post by ironfalcon


The Pokpoong is based on the T-62/72 chassis. The K2 Black Panther is superior in EVERY single way.

To anyone that thinks this would be easy.

Iraq was supposed to be a cake walk, but it wasn't

Korea 1950 - 1953 certainly wasn't a cake walk, so we didn't win back then means it will be easy today?

Korean War Facts
* 6.8 million served on active-duty during the Korean War
* 1.8 million served during period of hostilities 36,940 died in theater during the war
* 4,793 died while missing in action
* 92,100 service members were wounded in theater, some several times
* 8,176 are still listed as missing in action 7,140 were POWs of whom 4,418 returned
* 131 Korean War participants received the Medal of Honor

Korean War Facts

North Korea has a pretty scary Army, that is true, but they have MANY handicaps. One of the largest handicaps they have, in my opinion, is their leadership. An insane tyrant has complete, unilateral control. All of the best military advisers mean squat, when a completely mad, egotistical narcissist has complete control over every little decision made. Just like Germany had a fearsome fighting force, but Hitler had total control, and many, many times, completely ignored his best advisers, and did what ever he felt should be done.

There is a good interview with a high ranking defector that was once an advisor to lil' Kim, which is a great example that shows this leader to be incredibly egotistical. He believes he is a Living God, or at least tries to convey that to his citizens (hostages). Someone with this personality type is very susceptible to making very grave mistakes, to try to boost their own Ego.

Its all about China.

If there is a Korean war restart some americans will die and an enormous amount of Koreans. Given the relative strengths i'd expect it to play out much like the first time round.

Seoul would be gone to rubble shortly after hostilities commence. The north would overrun the border by weight of arms until the effects of USA airpower degrade the NK logistics train and c&c to the point where the NK lose cohesion. (The North Korean airforce would be rolled over very quickly. They would die without seeing the enemy for the most part. They are no match for the SK airforce never mind the USAF).

The SK would then push them back into NK.

At that point the Chinese have to decide whether to save their client like they did before or seal the border and let it fall. Thats the real point of danger for the wider world. If both sides miscalculate US vs China could occur. Or the regime could go nuclear in its death spasms.