Poppy-burning Muslim protesters mar Armistice Day commemorations as millions fall

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by oozyism

 

You're obviously missing the whole point. Remeberence Day is about EVERYBODY that died as a result of War, not just Soldiers. The two minutues is to show respect to all who gave their lives as a result of conflict.

Then again, I suspect you are deliberately not "getting it" so as to start a fuss.

Stu don't waste your breath fellah, we've tried explaining that to him many pages back. The familiar phrase of 'having more use talking to a brick outhouse' springs to mind.


Incidentally, did anything occur today? Did the bearded protestors show their faces today?

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by oozyism

 

You're obviously missing the whole point. Remeberence Day is about EVERYBODY that died as a result of War, not just Soldiers. The two minutues is to show respect to all who gave their lives as a result of conflict.

Then again, I suspect you are deliberately not "getting it" so as to start a fuss.
I marched and protested against BOTH wars. So make of that what you will...

Stu don't waste your breath fellah, we've tried explaining that to him many pages back. The familiar phrase of 'having more use talking to a brick outhouse' springs to mind.


Incidentally, did anything occur today? Did the bearded protestors show their faces today?
I marched and protested against BOTH wars. So make of that what you will...

Why dont YOU go protest and quit whing.. Trust me i get where your coming from but to me obviously through pages and pages of this thread you are right your not getting ANYWHERE with these people it comes off as a big rant now... organize your bearded buddies and go protest the protesters don't be scared about it but beat them at their own game or quit going on... You said you protested the wars so why the flip you upset at someone else protest the wars what i make of it is YOU SHOULD OF NEVER PROTESTED THE WARS!! if your going to protest this that sounds assanine are you finally JUST NOW GETTING IT we have been saying this for a loooooooooong time but you shut us americans out like were stupid......

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Now you know where their anger and hatred comes from, shame on you, all of you.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


First of all, stop spamming this crap. Graphic imagery should come with a warning.

Secondly, they aren't the only ones to suffer during war and they suffered greater horros under the Taliban and Saddam. If the bloody "insurgent" twats in those countries would actually stop fighting NATO then there would be no bloodshed!! But out of some sence of misguided religious intolerance, the fudging morons keep the war going..

For what?

So they can re-instate the brutal islamic regime we toppled.

So what is your point exactly? Get of your high horse you twonk.

reply to post by mr-lizard


OK Mr. Lizard, if you have any sense of humanity, why not tell us how your grand parents who fought in WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Iraq, Iraq again, Afghanistan, Africa etc not tools of war.

Prove to me they weren't tools of war, then i will be happy to agree with you.

If you can't, then I will stick to what I'm saying, that this moment of silent is nothing more but a tool for the elite to send the next generation in to the battle field without any questions asked.

Do they have any choice of which war they choose?

If not, they are no different than a freakin gun, or a nuke. If the nukes were conscious, do you think they would bloody want to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children in Japan.

Get real mate

reply to post by stumason


NATO is in their country mate, they are not in Britain.

It is like Taliban invading Britain then I argue that if those terrorist Brits don't fight back, there would be no blood shed. Get real.

You arguments are old and rusty, and emotional.

Britain seems to forget the atrocities it has committed in other countries.This is why many people around the world could not possibly care less about,poppies or silence or Armistice Day.In Ireland a lot of people refuse to acknowledge it.Scotland also, and India and China and the list goes on.Things like the massacres at Amristar and Croke Park live long in the memory.

Britain seems to think the rest of the world has no long term memory.
It does and that is why they are disrespecting what is an institutionalised glorification of warmongering.Britain does not bring freedom to people, rather death , destruction and pillage.

All that said,their protest won't stop Britain's war machine.Burn all the poppies you want.Some blue rinsers might get their bloomers in a twist but the British military will just laugh at that and make up for it by torturing a few more heads out in Afghanistan.Obviously Islam failed to impart any political savvy to them.


Eric Bogle said it well in 'The Green Fields of France'


The sun's shining down on these green fields of France;
The warm wind blows gently, and the red poppies dance.
The trenches have vanished long under the plough,
No gas and no barbed wire, no guns firing now.
But here in this graveyard that's still No Man's Land
The countless white crosses in mute witness stand
To man's blind indifference to his fellow man.
And a whole generation who were butchered and damned.

And I can't help but wonder, now Willie McBride,
Do all those who lie here know why they died?
Did you really believe them when they told you "The Cause?"
Did you really believe that this war would end wars?
Well the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame
The killing, the dying, it was all done in vain,
For Willie McBride, it all happened again,
And again, and again, and again, and again.

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by oozyism

 

Yes, exactly. If you paid any attention to recent years Remeberance services and the other memorials for D-Day and such, you'll see veterans and people of all nations taking part, including those of the Axis. In fact, recently, the German authorities went to great lengths to locate the family of dead crew members of an RAF bomber shot down during a raid.

Almost all of my concerns have been solved thanks to you.

One more left.

Doesn't this remembrance day encourages the next generation to join the army without questions asked, and then be forced to fight in wars which they know nothing about?

Shouldn't this remembrance day have a special clause stating that it is against forced departure of soldier to the battlefield, without any objection?

To answer that question, you need to know what is being remembered and how it is being remembered..

George Orwell put it better than I in his essay on Britain..

In England all the boasting and flag-wagging, the ‘Rule Britannia’ stuff, is done by small minorities. The patriotism of the common people is not vocal or even conscious. They do not retain among their historical memories the name of a single military victory.

English literature, like other literatures, is full of battle-poems, but it is worth noticing that the ones that have won for themselves a kind of popularity are always a tale of disasters and retreats. There is no popular poem about Trafalgar or Waterloo, for instance. Sir John Moore's army at Corunna, fighting a desperate rearguard action before escaping overseas (just like Dunkirk!) has more appeal than a brilliant victory.

The most stirring battle-poem in English is about a brigade of cavalry which charged in the wrong direction. And of the last war, the four names which have really engraved themselves on the popular memory are Mons, Ypres, Gallipoli and Passchendaele, every time a disaster. The names of the great battles that finally broke the German armies are simply unknown to the general public.

And a poem to reflect the above sentiments, popular English/British poems/songs don't generally glorify war..

Tommy, by Rudyard Kipling, read by Roger Moore


So how do you think remembering war and all those that fell in this way equates to encouraging the next generation to join the army and fight?

reply to post by blupblup


That's fair enough.

As far as I can see, these protesters are only pissed off because it's members of their flock that are suffering in Afghanistan and Iraq. That makes these protesters bigoted, religious zealots who are only concerned about the welfare of members of their particular group ( in this case, Muslims ).

I have no time for people like that, and consequently I can't see any validity in their protest ( although, they should be free to do so, as long as they aren't breaking any laws ).

I can understand Afghans protesting, or people that are morally against the war, but not religious fanatics who probably ignore similar unjust conflicts where ''their boys'' are the aggressors.


As I said, your comment appeared a bit ambiguous, as you specifically used the term ''Muslim'' in your comments about the protesters, which suggested that that was a relevant factor in you ''seeing why they were pissed off''.

But, as you have outlined your views clearly, I see that wasn't the intended implication of your original comment, and I acknowledge that the mistaken interpretation was on my part, and I should have asked for clarification before ''charging in'' with my replie. For that, I apologise.

Originally posted by kindred
Nothing like skipping around the most important point that I made. You seem to think that we exist to serve politicians. Sorry it's the other way round and these politicians have done nothing but lie and deceive us and most are certainly not fit to represent us. They promised us a referendum on the EU Treaty, amongst other things and they broke those promises through lies and deceit. The UK Government is rotten to the core.

I didn't skip around any point.

I never said that we should serve politicians, it's just that in a representative democracy, constituents elect an MP to represent their views in Parliament. It's not the MP's fault if they are not getting much input from lethargic and apathetic constituents; the blame for that lies firmly at the door of the people that fail to use their democratic power.

And the MPs who promised a referendum of the Treaty of Lisbon, should have been lobbied en masse by their constituents who disagreed with it. Failing that, then there was ample opportunity at the recent General Election for disgruntled constituents to vote out any sitting MPs who had not acted according to their wishes, .

Originally posted by kindred
Our Parliament is rotten to the core.
blogs.telegraph.co.uk...

There is a common thread to these stories. All three cases show that lying and cheating are still regarded as acceptable conduct by the British Political Class. Our MPs continue to regard themselves as somehow beyond the basic morality that applies to their fellow citizens. I used to believe that this arrogant and dishonest approach to politics was peculiar to New Labour. Now it looks like common practice for all parties.

You can't stop anybody from committing an action, if they want to take that action. The only steps that can be taken to deal with anything like this, are retroactive measures.

If the population is disgruntled by a politician with their ''snout in the trough'', then they can take action against them, constituents can carry out a campaign to constantly question the MP, members of the MP's local party can attempt to deselect the candidate, or any MP shown to be dishonest can be voted out at the next General Election.

did you see this yet?

www.liveleak.com...

oozy you just seem to want to oppose anything that may represent UK / US / Western culture or society because it fits your agenda of spreading discord.

Every society and culture has celebrations / ceremonies which are unique to them.

On Remembrance Day we choose to pay our respect to all those who have fought, for whatever reason, and some whom paid the ultimate sacrifice, in wars over the last century or so.
It serves several purposes including being a reminder of the horrors of war.

It is not a glorification of war or 'Western' militarism.

It is an apolitical statement and ceremony.

I wear my poppy with pride and attend Remembrance Day ceremonies and honour those brave souls.

That some disagree with me I can accept.

I can not accept such a public display of disrespect for such a solemn and venerative occassion.
Especially from those that demand unconditional respect for their own ceremonies / celebrations and take immense umbrage to even the slightetst percieved insult or lack of respect shown to them.

Hypocrisy and double standards of the highest order.

I suspect there maybe a payback for this.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Now you know where their anger and hatred comes from, shame on you, all of you.

Who are you defining as ''they/their/them'' in this case ?

As far as I see, any legitimate protests by Afghans and Iraqis are being hijacked by bigoted religious extremists who are only concerned because it's their ''flock'' on the receiving end of these wars.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

OK Mr. Lizard, if you have any sense of humanity, why not tell us how your grand parents who fought in WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Iraq, Iraq again, Afghanistan, Africa etc not tools of war.

Prove to me they weren't tools of war, then i will be happy to agree with you.

No problem then. You continue to call our fallen heroes as tools of war, and i'll start referring to the Afghan people as terrorists.

Deal

Makes me feel less bad every time i hear about a village getting struck by an American drone, because using the same mentality as you, I'll just box them all off as terrorists.

So back on topic.

These terrorist scum who protested against the poppy parade, i'm guessing they were frightened off from repeating the same actions on Remembrance Sunday.

A good day for Britain, hopefully these terrorists will be too afraid to show their ugly faces the next time it occurs for fear of a good old fashioned English kick off.

Long live the UK. Say no to Sharia (or any other backward mentality) in the UK.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Now you know where their anger and hatred comes from, shame on you, all of you.

Who are you defining as ''they/their/them'' in this case ?

Them what dared protest against the almighty British empire I-fink?

Who else could it be mate?



"all of you" is quite easy to understand isn't it?

As in everyone. Everyone who has chosen violence and conflict over peace and tolerance, regardless of race, nationality or religion.

Who has done more to incite hatred and violence?

Take a good long look around you, THINK for a while longer.

What is coming is not the responsibility of any human, it cannot be stopped, course changed or avoided.

Evil has consumed you and all of your brothers and sisters, corrupted you and your governments, your armies and most of all, your faiths and faithful.

Welcome to the beginning of the end, our earned and well reaped reward for our own bloody violence and failure to advance beyond the human animal.

Whether humanity can survive the dark days to come, depends entirely on the actions taken in the very near future to leave the evil path it has collectively chosen.

Consider yourselves warned.

reply to post by Freeborn


But disagreeing to a celebration or moment of silence, which is used by the elite to brainwash the future generation is something more people should do. That disagreement can cause debate, that debate can cause change.

I'll never agree, and I'll never join a moment of silence for tools of war, even if my dad was one of them. Hey I'm sure these men and women who were used as tools of war to fight for greed and power, had qualities to remember outside the realm of kill or be killed. I'm sure they were fathers, we should respect them as that, I'm sure they were mothers, we should respect them as that. Why should we respect them as tools of war?

I would never give a moment of silence to a freakin nuke, sorry mate.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


What utter and total claptrap!

This has absolutely nothing to do with race or creed and the only people who see it that way are the politically correct apologists that want to find an excuse for these pathetic examples of human beings who have no regard or respect for anything or anyone other than themselves and their odious, barbaric and intolerant interpretation of Islam.

This nation has a tradtion of commemorating and honouring those that have served it in the past, regardless of race or creed.
It serves as a reminder of the horrors of war and the ultimate price some have had to pay.

That they have such a lack of respect for other peoples culture shows their intolerance and not that of their foster nation that has welcomed them with open arms only to have been treat with utter disdain in return.

You allude to some sort of impending apocalypse or armageddon.
I have news for you, people have been predicting this since time immorial, and guess what, it hasn't happened.
And you supply no evidence whatsoever other than your cryptic ramblings to suggest that it's likely to soon.

Unfortunately violence does play a part in human society but it is not the all consuming passion that drives.
The desire for peace has never been stronger.
And Remembrance Day serves as a reminder of man's capacity for committing the ultimate acts of violence upon each other.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Your military is already doing that mate, innocent Afghans are killed and then labeled as terrorists, then brushed under the carpet.

Why do you think Karzai wants the US operations to end

I feel sorry for you for not even having the ability to defend your dead, if they were not tools of war, then you would have been able to defend them, since you can't, my point stands. Give it one more try