ENOUGH! Manners in the Aliens/UFO Forum and those who habitually deride, insult, and just LOVE being

Originally posted by intrepid
Grade schoolers would get this.

Due to an understanding of the pecker order as it is enforced in the playground intrepid.

Finger wagging from an adult has its place in the social skilling of youth. The playground has a much larger impact though.

You want civility from the sceptics from this thread. Have the title changed to included everyone.

As is, my belief system is being stomped on and whilst I'm big enough to take it - I feel these new rules rob others of potential social skills such as supplying their thoughts upon videos, searching for prior posts of these videos, reading the T&Cs of this site etc.

You've got bias in this thread from the title. Saying that it means everyone is fruitless semantic mental masturbation whist slapping each other on the back (to paraquote Springer).

-m0r

reply to post by etcorngods


Those that think more of looking nice than about other people are another kind of fakers.

Being nice doesn't mean you can accept an injustice when you see it or that you let things happen because you don't want to look "not nice".

reply to post by Springer


What can i say?... ... ...I think i will just thank you a lot for your words on this subject.
Lately, and not just in the UFO forum, many ATS members started to act like if this was a kind of science academy site where every possible topic not covered with 100% proofs, are just trash, and not worth nothing!
It is like a kind of "Truthmania" movement, but at a complete zelote fanatic level.

Thank you once more for your so true words Springer!

reply to post by Springer


Great OP from a site owner but then you confuse the issue by allowing threads like this, that are nothing more than a 100% attack/insult on members to go on unhindered??
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Although I agree with some of what the OP highlights, is it not also true, as you so elequently discribed it, that their option is to post a civil reply or just ignore the thread?
We now have other similar threads allowed to clutter the boards.
Soon there will be more threads complaining about threads than there are normal threads....
(My that was a tongue twister

reply to post by ArMaP


Language and manners are what keeps the classes separated and inline. Give me a hardhat anyday over the PHD.

The PHDs are the ones with the sheepskins.

reply to post by etcorngods


Language separates everyone that speaks it slightly differently or not at all (I have had many problems because of the way I write), and can be used as a measure of someone's knowledge or "culture" and be used as a sign of specific classes, manners are independent of the classes and even change for the same person with time and external influences, that's why we are asked to remember that when answering other member's posts.

reply to post by m0r1arty

"You want civility from the sceptics from this thread. Have the title changed to included everyone."

Hiya m0r1arty! A couple of previous posts clarified the term 'skeptic' as any person who is skeptical of the content within a post they are replying to. A Skeptic is not necessarily a 'debunker.' The original poster replying to a 'debunker' takes on the role of 'skeptic' in that case. People who agree with a post they are replying to (ie: debunkers agreeing with debunkers; believers agreeing with believers) generally give forth 'atta boy' responses to one another, so it's never an issue. Just think of 'Skeptic' as anybody who disagrees with the post they are replying to. Debunkers are skeptics of Believers. Believers are skeptical of Debunkers. They just gotta share the sandbox and not throw sand in each others' eyes.

Somebody let me know if I missed the boat on this!

reply to post by new_here


Hey new_here!

I understand what scepticism is however I enjoyed your definition very much.

I do not believe in intelligent extraterrestrial lifeforms visiting Earth - but I do have to be sceptical about it and keep an open mind - my beliefs could be wrong.

Someone stating that sceptics can't prove them wrong is a misrepresentation of the term sceptic (or skeptic if you are using American English). As is throwing sceptics and debunkers into the same category.

The term however has been given power by some of those here who ardently believe that every thing they don't understand forms part of a great conspiracy and that anyone who stands up to either correct them or give them alternatives is an evil sceptic/debunker.

There are countless threads where these terms are used in the title alone never mind posts within the countless others.

As such I feel the administration of this site should respect the term sceptic and not use it in the current threads title.

If we believe we exist then surely we each are believers?

Everyone happy to change the thread title to 'ENOUGH! YouTube Videos in the A/UFO Forum and the Believers'?

I didn't think so...

-m0r

reply to post by m0r1arty


Oh, I see what you are saying. It wouldn't bother me a bit if the thread title was "Enough! YouTube Videos in the A/UFO Forum and Mudslinging From Both Sides!"

Please don't laugh at me, but I'm freaked out just now by something I just now saw in the sky just now when I took my dogs out. I have never in my life seen a UFO. No, I'm not going to go film...whatever... because my husband's out of town, I'm home alone, and I'm scared. Anybody in the southeast please look towards the west. I promise you I am not making this up. My word is my oath. I'm sorry this is off topic but this is an active thread with many members on it.

I wish you all a good, safe, pleasant night.

Originally posted by m0r1arty
You've got bias in this thread from the title.

Yes, as well as at the top of every page of every thread in this forum:
"This forum is dedicated to the discussion of historic and contemporary events related to extraterrestrial encounters, UFO sightings, and speculation about related subjects. Discussion topics and follow-up responses in this forum will likely tend to lean in favor of the existence of extraterrestrials and the related conspiracies, scandals, and cover-ups. Members who would seek to refute such theories should be mindful of our tradition of supporting the examination of the extraterrestrial phenomenon on the related conspiracy theories, cover-ups, and scandals. Replies that make fun or otherwise ridicule and demean those posting honest experiences and/or questions will be removed. Members who post such responses repeatedly will be banned."

Or perhaps you haven't noticed.


One can be helpful and collaborative in the deconstruction of "evidence" presented in these threads, and as a result, add valuable information to the collective knowledge herein.

Or, one can be an ass.



Yes... there can be petty and unproductive behavior from the "true believer" side of things here. But in my experience, the majority has been on the heels of unacceptable behavior from some who appear to take sport in tossing about insults.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Or perhaps you haven't noticed.

One can be helpful and collaborative in the deconstruction of "evidence" presented in these threads, and as a result, add valuable information to the collective knowledge herein.

Or, one can be an ass.

Super. Got the message now loud and clear. Thanks for reiterating that for me.

No sceptics or sceptical remarks in UFO or Alien threads as they do not share the bias of being probable/possible that ATS would like to put forward. I apologise for the fact that it had to be pointed out to me. I must have got caught up with the fervour of the content available.

So when the next Heaven's Gate, the future of Indigo children, the Galactic Federation of Light and everything in between take place I can know that they were able to due to the due diligence of members supporting such theories here at ATS. I realise that you do not allow recruitment here and don't support cult movements, just stating a worst case scenario by association.

I put forward that the 'Deny ignorance' motto be changed to 'Ignore denials' by way of a humoured retort and will happily comply to the conditions placed upon those who critically question and provide provable answers within this paranormal field here at ATS from this post forward.

-m0r

Originally posted by m0r1arty
No sceptics or sceptical remarks in UFO or Alien threads as they...

Please skip the tedious drama and pedantic exaggeration. It's unbecoming.

It says: "Discussion topics and follow-up responses in this forum will likely tend to lean in favor of the existence of extraterrestrials and the related conspiracies, scandals, and cover-ups"

At no point did I, or any other staff/owner here at ATS, indicate a critical point of view is unwanted. But this is a discussion venue focused on conspiracies and UFO subjects, where manners are required. Including from the habitually skeptical.

reply to post by Springer


there isnt any reason to ignore you tube threads, they can be interesting. and the debate over each you tube video is worthwhile, if its a worthwhile vid.

but op, ur right about one thing, the debunkers have no character. i am a huge fan and researcher of alien phenomena, and having found nothing but testimony and circumstancial evidence in support of ufo-alien intervention in human-monkey affairs, thus, as a believer, i am hardcore as a skeptic.

but i can say, as a person who stood up for a woman in pennsylvania a year or two ago [when she started posting a plethora of ufo vids she filmed from her back porch on you tube], that i was defending her against rude, mostly ugly spirited, close minded, character-attacking debunkers. i actually belived she was filming planes, but saw no reason why her videos shouldnt be duscussed, or why she shouldnt continue her research

the reason i stood against the debunkers was simply because of the ugly-spirited way they tried to shut down discourse/analysis, the woman's research/vid-recording, while also attacking her character. who wouldnt stand against that?

let the debate continue. and who cares about the gayassed skillset it takes to navigate this website's bizzare and hardly articulated rule-set for posting while dominated by moderators, web rules-social-obsessives and no life site-oldtimers???

real discourse with real politeness in support of continued amateur and professional research and analysis regarding ufo's should occur for reasons of character, irregardless of this website's dynamics. anyone should stand up for that wherever they are.

reply to post by urmenimu2


What you call analyse and research I call life endangering and illegal.

In this case, the woman deserves everything she gets because pointing lasers at planes is real bad.

It's potentially hundreds of innocent people dead - bad.

reply to post by Chadwickus


agreed, and again in that post we have the "closed minded" debunker etc etc type comments!

thanks

rich

Originally posted by urmenimu2
but op, ur right about one thing, the debunkers have no character.

I've been called a "debunker" more often than not. That sweeping statement of yours is indicative of the problem.

There exists, admittedly, a sub-set of debunkers, skeptics, and habitual deniers who derive personal satisfaction from attacking the person with questions, rather than the questions.

Similarly, there is a not insignificant segment of "true believers" who reflexively accept weak evidence and the word of charlatans in their hope that others will soon believe as they do.

These are the two groups who most-often clash with negative effect here in the Aliens & UFO forum here on ATS. A clash that ultimately detracts from the subject matter the majority of users and members feel is rather important. And that's the whole point here -- most people would prefer to examine these subjects without the noise-level generated by the "epic struggle" between believers and skeptics.

If these two minorities are unable to contribute to these subjects without focusing on each other, then they will be shown the door, one by one.

reply to post by Springer
I agree with your main points although they are really a reiteration of the way all members are expected to behave. I also recognise one or two skeptics around here acting like attack dogs regularly. To be honest, in recent weeks I stopped referring to myself as a skeptic and tried to be more open to the 'believers' to limit association of 'skeptic' with 'bully' or 'troll.'

Accepting that less than a handful of skeptics can act in a way that's broadly unacceptable, is it reasonable to extend the criticism across all the skeptics around here? They could have been approached individually and avoided the reaction of the other reasonable skeptics in this thread and on the boards. There's a perception growing that skeptics are being harshly treated. This thread increases the sentiment and does includes a focus on skeptics whether it was intentional or not.

When I signed on to ATS a lot of current members were active and popular. Skeptics and believers. Their posts had a high approval rate amongst members and people added them to their friends list. In these past couple of years, their style of post hasn't changed much and yet they now feel criticised to the point of leaving or stopping posting. Alienated. So what? Let 'em go? ATS will carry on as ever.

The thing is, some of these members are like the furniture around here. The place isn't the same without them. ATS will not be the same experience without them and newer skeptics will be fewer. Skeptics are already a (noisy) minority and most are polite and provide the links for discussion. Maybe they shouldn't feel threatened by blanket statements against skeptics, but they do feel that way. Just in recent weeks, the knock-on effect has seen a lack of life in threads.

In the spirit of fairness, can we just stick to the T&Cs for *all* sides? Repeat offenders of *all* sides could have advisory u2us reminding them to remain civil without polarising skeptics/believers even further and causing the sense of being unwanted on the boards.

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by etcorngods

 

Language separates everyone that speaks it slightly differently or not at all (I have had many problems because of the way I write), and can be used as a measure of someone's knowledge or "culture" and be used as a sign of specific classes, manners are independent of the classes and even change for the same person with time and external influences, that's why we are asked to remember that when answering other member's posts.

Not that sure about other men, but Stupid is what I do best.

You have not had the experiences I have. Just try putting you feet on the cocktail table at a fancy party. Try Picking Your Teeth or your Nose. Manners are taught to kids -- that makes sure they stay at the top of the social ladder. People like the OWNER try to use manners to elevate them on the "social" ladder. Have a friend or loved one with such a disease -- email me. I do it by phone as well as in person.

I'm not advocating reckless disregard for other people's feelings.