ENOUGH! Manners in the Aliens/UFO Forum and those who habitually deride, insult, and just LOVE being

UPDATE #2 I've altered the title again to remove ANY POSSIBLE CONFUSION as to what this thread is about.


UPDATE

This thread was originally titled, "ENOUGH! YouTube Videos in the A/UFO Forum and those who hate them," and initiated just over a year ago. While we experienced some short-term improvement, it appears as though civility and manners in the Aliens & UFOs forum is in short supply again -- primarily as a result of habitual debunkers and those who seek to merely poke fun at sightings of any type.

Let the bumping of this thread serve as an additional and new warning that our staff will not tolerate incivility and and rudeness as is currently being experienced here.

Such posts are subject to immediate removal and/or actions against your account status on ATS.


Original post below.


I'm really sick and tired of the absolutely HORRID manners some of our "Skeptics"/"Debunkers" are showing regarding YouTube Videos of alleged UFOs here on ATS.

I am a skeptic myself, I laugh at 99% of these videos too.

What I don't do is make an complete ass of myself by reaming out someone who may have been impressed with the video because they don't have the experience I have.

What I don't do is automatically accuse them of being a troll, a moron, or hoaxer.

What I actually do is either ignore it, or POLITELY explain why I think it's a fake. In the event I, or someone else, can PROVE it's a fake I move it to the HOAX forum.

Seriously, I have been trying to keep the peace here by warning the True Believers about their snarky comments and ridiculous "you are blind/close minded, etc..." statements too, but you guys (YouTube Skeptic's Attack Squad) are NOT helping me.

Effective IMMEDIATELY your choices are to:

1. Ignore the YouTube Video threads.

2. Remember that this IS a discussion forum (not the House of Facts that are proven), act like a Grown Up and POLITELY offer your opinion of the video (if you don't have the PROOF it's a fake then all you DO have is your opinion which is no more fabulous than anyone else's) and then DROP IT or go FIND THE PROOF it's fake and alert me (or any Super Mod/ admin) so we can move it to the HOAX forum

This is the INTERNET, NOT the University of Logic.

Get it?

You're interacting with people from ALL OVER THE WORLD, many of whom are not privy to the latest CGI, many who are not up on the fact that "video A" was debunked 6 months ago. We will NOT abide anyone slamming the OP because they already "know" it's been debunked or, because they "just know" (without proving it) it's CGI.

If you know it's been debunked, GO GET THE link that shows it and BE NICE ABOUT IT. If you only "think" it's CGI, say so but leave the snide remarks out of it.

Listen, I love the fact that ATS is a meeting ground for both sides of the fence in "Ufology" and trust me when I tell you that one without the other is a BORING, DEAD place with ZERO activity, just go look at the other 99% of websites that cover this topic, ZERO traffic/Activity. You're lucky to get 5 posts a week in response to your thread. A site full of people who are all on one side of an issue accomplishes nothing but a bunch of back slapping mental masturbation.

I'll admit that I also get worn out by people who simply refuse to accept the facts when they are presented in an OBVIOUS, irrefutable way, you know what I do? I ignore them after that. I don't bring myself down to the level of a grade school playground bully and try to get a dig in.

Why would I? What does it matter to me if someone on the internet is WRONG?

ATS is an environment for the open, HONEST and CIVIL exchange of ideas and information. Even ridiculously bad YouTube Videos of UFOs. The goal here is to debunk the bad ones with real science/imaging skills in a CIVIL and GROWN UP manner.

If you don't have the chops to do that then POLITELY (like a grown up) state why you think it's a fake and move on or go find the proof.

Seriously, enough is enough.

Any chance we could have the believers that they need to supply basic info about their videos and what their opinion upon the subject matter at hand?

Just seems fair that they comply with what we hope people supply in order to back up their claims.

I understand that it's not always easy to supply information related to the video found, but it would be good to have an opinion of what they thing the video is about.

I've seen lots of videos posted with no further info provided and it makes it harder to empathise with the poster.

I hope you understand what I'm tying to state.

-m0r

reply to post by m0r1arty



But of course :

15k.) Video links/embeds: You will not embed or Post a link to a video without a reasonable description of its content and why it interests you, is germane to the topics discussed on the Websites or the topic of an existing thread should you post it in a reply to an existing thread.

Terms and Conditions

Hear hear to that Springer!
Well spoken and a necessary reminder to honor the diversity and places people are at in their growth and discoveries. Members learn much more when they are treated with respect and compassion.
Thank you for the reminder and encouragement...

I agree to with posters above that people should add more to a thread than just a vid with little to no opinion or support. For the most part I have seen members remind them in a respectful way and am grateful for the members that handle the quandaries with patience and consideration, and maybe a little humor, but respectfully nonetheless.

spec

My first post on ATS was an article I wrote on various credible sightings and encounters. I spend most of my time ignoring the threads in A & U though. I love the subject, just not the way it's handled by either side of the argument.

It's like listening to Republicans and Democrats go at it.

I agree mate, %100, I dread to think that one day major evidence for some conspiracy isn't posted because the potential poster fears being ridiculed.

ATS of all places should have a higher tolerance of such videos, maybe the more experienced folk you talk about could look at the profile of the poster to ascertain how experienced the OP is?

All the best ATS, kiwi

reply to post by m0r1arty


There are two sections of the T&C which are very pertinent to this discussion-

15k.) Video links/embeds: You will not embed or Post a link to a video without a reasonable description of its content and why it interests you, is germane to the topics discussed on the Websites or the topic of an existing thread should you post it in a reply to an existing thread.

15l.) [HOAX]: In the event you Post more than three items that are later determined to be of an obviously hoax, fraudulent, or faked nature, your account may be terminated without warning.

When there is a viable option, our preference is to not delete a thread which has an ongoing discussion, or a post which has generated multiple responses. If you see a thread started with nothing but a video link, or a post for that matter, please Alert on it.

Members who have a habit of continually bringing Hoax topics to the forums, whether they're perpetrating them or not, are subject to potential account termination. Legitimately asking a question is certainly not going to be sanctioned, but Section 15L is fair notice we're likely to address those members who clutter the forum with Hoax topics, in a vigorous way.

If you find a thread to be ridiculous, address it civilly and move on. Continuing to participate in those threads just bumps them and is totally counterproductive to getting them buried.

Now what you and I find ridiculous and what others find ridiculous may be completely different things. For those wishing to participate in those discussions, let them have at it. It'll maybe free up some other threads for a discussion you find to be more worthwhile.

A thousand thank-you's.

I've been here since June, and I have yet to start a thread about ANYTHING, simply because I don't care to put myself in front of the firing squad of rude, insulting, condescending people who attack the person and personal opinions, rather than point out their own conclusions in a reasonable, civil manner.

Currently I am tee-d off about people 'diagnosing' Schizophrenia, Aspergbers Disease and a delusional condition simply because a thread-starter entertained the idea that his dream may be more than a dream!

C'mon people. Get with the program! If you can't bring yourself to post something in a respectful manner, take a breath and move on to a topic where you can. There is never a good reason to be unkind to another poster.

A balanced, mature OP. Think it will help? I hope so. Although, entertainment comes in many forms, so sometimes I get a giggle at the shenanigans of the vociferous from whatever side of the fence they're hollering all spittle-faced from.

On a somewhat connected note: I don't know why I lurked for a few years...it's a heck of alot more fun to participate in this rough & tumble mosh pit of alternative speculation. Flag & bling. Peace.

Completely agree about the whole situation. And no one is fooling anybody with these videos trying to flame the whole Ufology subject. Fake UFO Videos on Youtube have been around FOREVER! There have been people faking UFO's since before the Internet! The subject exists for a reason! The hoaxers are there for a reason! Don't forget the Age of the Universe, and everything that we know about it! Billions and Billions of Galaxies for 14 Billion years! It's 2010! Enough is right!

reply to post by yeahright

15l.) [HOAX]: In the event you Post more than three items that are later determined to be of an obviously hoax, fraudulent, or faked nature, your account may be terminated without warning.

Now that I like.
My fear has been,too, that the real deal will simply be buried under all the known bunky-poo.

IMO you should implement the ability for the original poster to edit his first post with the latest info. It would also be nice to mark posts as solved & hoax to help people get the latest info when they drop onto a 20 page thread. Recent UFO threads of late have been answered on page 2 but continue on page after page with people telling you it's real. People also need to spend the time reading the threads, but the current state of affairs makes that quite soul destroying due to the amount of spam and trolling. Hopefully these new changes will rectify that.

i have been attacked on many different threads i have posted
i acept ufos can make you a target but not from people who are here

springer a suggestion
could we please have a youtube video forum for the members who are looking for evidence on you tube, seperate from the ufo forum so the ufo forum is not spammed with videos
then when a video is past a number of flags it could be moved to the ufo forum

this seves two purposes
1. a place where new members can post vids freely for debate on authenticity ect where the rule is only share what you cannot explain
2. when posting in the youtube forum it clears the weat from the chaff before it can enter the usual ufo forum

i too am worried that most new members would see how these ops are treated and refrain from posting
we could miss some important ideas vids or even proof

i realize your stuck inbetween a rock and a hard place
and i hope we can all come to our senses (me included)
XPLodER

I'd take this seriously if the moderators simply banned the offenders (including me, if I'm guilty!) instead of posting multiple non-specific threads about alleged multiple non-specific incidents.

Indeed, I would really appreciate a link to a thread where the behavior is illustrated, and we can actually look at what happened, why, and what moderator intervention occurred.

This approach, where ONLY one side is being criticised (note that it was only projectvxn who pointed out that the problem exists on both sides, rather like the 'Civility' thread), has the effect of making all debunkers think they are guilty, and driving them away.

I also strongly agree with Ceetee's observation:

Recent UFO threads of late have been answered on page 2 but continue on page after page with people telling you it's real.

It's no wonder that even once debunked, these cases become part of the UFO lore (which is why it DOES matter if *many* people on the Internet are wrong) - if you read later pages of these threads, the earlier debunking was obviously ignored by many, and largely wasted.. And yes, I'm happy to offer examples if asked.

Why aren't those threads closed? It's not like it's difficult to find them, just watch the popular topics...

I speak only for myself, so this opinion is worth nothing really, but until I see the rules being applied fairly and equally, along with a decent level of mod participation and sensible thread control, I'll remain scarce.

ADDED:
For discerning readers, may I suggest you take a look at this posting *by the person that made the video*:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and the entire thread it is part of, particularly the last several pages. The initial debunking may be found on page 2, by wisintel, and it was acknowledged by the OP on the same page. Yet it is now 9 pages long and going strong, despite many calls for closure. ATS at its finest?

WOW

Some of you just can't get it, can you???

This is NOT about Truth, or Hoaxes...

It is NOT about Bunking or Debunking...

It is about treating your fellow members with all the respect they deserve...

GOODNESS SAKES PEOPLE...

For those that read this and figure they should remain scarce... I would suggest that if you think you should, you should.. Perhaps ATS is not for you...

There are plenty of other forums where you can go to and bash people, call them names and be generally insulting all you want..

The simple fact and end result is.. You will NOT do that here... Period...

Come on.. Let's get it... Shall we?

reply to post by semperfortis


so why are the believers getting a free ride and allowed to call people troll, disinfo agent etc etc etc just because you disagree with a pic/vid, and why can they constantly make comments like, "wait for the skeptics to come in and claim it was a skydiver falling from venus into swamp gas while holding a chinese lantern?.

why are only the skeptical side getting the flak?

thanks

rich

I would start by saying there are some incredibly intelligent and patient open minded people here and I appreciate the mix and quality of discussion. Having said that.....

I find some of the debunkers and skeptics can be very condescending in almost a "humiliating you" kind of way. Some exhibit no patience much of the time and can have a "holier than thou" attitude at times. They take their role as skeptic way too far sometimes and I am sure they would love to fine you with a written hoax ticket and flash a badge if they could. I think some get their kicks by waiting to ambush anything that comes by that doesn't make their cut, or something that involves, in the least, giving the benefit of the doubt, even just for the sake of argument. Some ridicule and complain about this and that, and can take their outlandish balloon or mylar explanations just as far the other way as those who claim UFO, Not to mention dog a thread and pop up page after page with commentary that contributes very little to the discussion.

If they are so unimpressed by everything they see here why be so passionate and put so much negative energy into a ufos and aliens discussion board. If this is "friendly fire" I would hate to see "enemy fire".

By the way I am almost certain there are some cases in the past called "HOAX" or quickly dismissed by ATS that have not been hoaxes at all. This is a shame to me. How many credible cases have been scared off by intimidating "ivory tower" intellectual bullies?

How can there be so many experts on what is or what isn't a true UFO when all the skeptics claim to never have seen one or never will? To what are they comparing all their omnipotent conclusions when it comes to identifying the unidentifiable?

reply to post by RICH-ENGLAND


All any of us need to worry about here at ATS is our own posts...

Spending time worry that someone got away with something that you did not, is counter productive to a happy time here..

If you see something against the T&C, alert it.

The old.. "Well he did it, so I will too" stuff is NOT going to fly. It has no place on an adult forum...Especially ATS

Semper

I'll add my 2 cents here along with Springer....

I happen to fall in a category as a researcher and field investigator that seems to ruffle a number of feathers, let me explain. I have to be a combination of what I think of as a UFO trinity factor ( no offense to Atheist, Christians or other dogma factions for my terminology), I am a Skeptic, I am a Debunker, and I'm also a Believer. Where people get ruffled is in the concept of how can one be all three?

Let me round it off this way. In order for me to continue in my quest, I need to eliminate all obstacles, so here is where being a skeptic and debunker gets me closer to my goal as a believer. If I can eliminate the usual (birds, bugs, fuzzy out-of-focus particulate, airplanes, balloons etc..), then I'm a step closer in my quest for answers. In other words, we need each other. It's not that I don't want to believe, it's that with the data submitted, there are still many 'holes' that have not been considered/discussed.

The problem in the digital world is that everyone feels 'they' have a right to mouth off in any way they want, which of course is not the ATS way of denying ignorance. There are ways of presenting your debate or thoughts without calling someone (IE: Example); A nimrod/asswipe/a nut/crazy/stupid/idiot/dropped on your head/ IQ deficient/moron/brain-dead/loser/retarded/(insert others here). If you can not banter your thoughts/claims without the use of some derogatory insinuation or negative response, then your not really denying ignorance on your end/part.

We as staff, are going to be closely monitoring your comments. What you may feel you can or would've gotten away with in the past is exactly that... A THING OF THE PAST..! So change your post presentation mentality before hitting the submit reply/quote button or face the ramifications, think out what your going to say. If you can't 'debate' your theories without such negative tones, then you need to take a 'personal time-out' till you can.

Once again, we all need each other. The believers need the skeptics and debunkers to make the evidence more viable. You might not like it, but it's the same technique in science and forensics, we need to bounce things off one another, but that doesn't mean at the end of a verbal gun or knife. This is not a case of 'free-speech' being slapped in the face, It's a case of diplomacy in the presentation of such thoughts. You may not agree with it, and that's fine, and if that's the case, then perhaps ATS is not for you. Were just asking for you to act like an adult, presenting your comments as if you were talking to a stranger on the street, or a student talking to a professor, or a conversation with your beloved Grandmother. I surely hope not many here would call there Grandmother a 'retard' simply because she had a different view than yours. If that is the case, again, ATS is probably not for you.

We are hoping that in doing such monitoring and keeping ourselves 'in check', that we can maintain the professional and dignified stance of being the best 'one-stop' website for alternative subjects made up of by some of the finest members and minds on the planet.


Johnny

Thank you for a BALANCED viewpoint, Johnny.

That's all I'd like to see...