Depression is NOT a Real Disorder

Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Uhm... Happiness is a choice...

Some people have a harder time making that choice than others... Some don't realize that it is a choice, still others have been taught that happiness is wrong to feel...


The solution that i have found to depression is stark reality.... That seems to set everything back to zero... The state of unconditionality ....


But if you have a hard time being happy, do the rest of us a favor, and get some Meds and don't make your unhappiness a burden to others.

You obviously have no idea or care about what is being discussed here.

Not only do I have an idea, I'm intimately aware.

And yes, I care more then you know.

Do you seriously think a few "Meds" is going to cure people or make their problems dissappear?...It may deal with the effects but doesn't deal with the solution.

Nope not at all... Meds will not cure people... but meds are great for those who would be a burden otherwise.

YOU are part of the world that contains the unhappiness that is such a burden to you and if you cannot handle living with it, it is your problem, not theirs. Don't be so weak and self rightious.

Look... I've battled with depression all my life, both my own and others.

I have cured my own... Lots of things had to change... religious beliefs, concepts about reality, the realization that my emotional state is not my objective state etc....

And during my time when I had not solved it... I didn't burden anyone else with it...

And why should depressed people do you a favour when you don't give a damn about them?

One day things might change for youy and you will understand from a more realistic point of view.

edit on 8/11/2010 by nerbot because: stuff

Well there you are right.. if they do it for anyone do it for themselves...

However, It is more of a way to let people know that there is no sympathy here, only guidance for those with ears to listen, and a turned back for all others.

One day things might change for me? When have they not changed?

Life is dynamic and fluid and never the same... I've been up, down, homeless, wealthy, etc.... all of these things are temporary... I've had family, been alone, with family again etc... Lost loved ones...

What do you expect to change that might have an effect on my mind? As a matter of fact it is just this level of dynamism and exposure to "the school of hard knocks" that has brought me the happiness I have today....

When you really embrace the fact that nothing has any meaning except that which you imbue it with, and that there is no ultimate purpose to life except what YOU do with it... all of the normal sensations of depression begin to melt away, as anxiety melts away, as social standards melt away...

When you realize that being happy is an endeavor, not something that passively occurs, then you realize that clinical depression is pretty much atrophying of this psychological muscle of choice.

I have been depressed and felt no need for suicide,it was just a bout of bordom for me.

I have no doubt that clinical depression is real and as horrable as those that experiance it say it is.

On a lighter and possiably a more serious note I don't really think it is a wise thing to bear your souls like this on a public forum (yes I did on the other post but kept it short and uninformative).There is a lot of info here to collect about individuals.

Just a thought.

From a former psychologist i can inform that Depression IS a very harsh and hard to deal with mental disorder. Its a fact, and can not be argued about.

reply to post by Archirvion


Former? Can I ask why you are a former?

I applaud the courage of posters who contribute their descriptions of depression, in spite of the Internet-Guru-Knowitalls/bullies who think they have the reasons and solutions for the (medically well documented) disease of depression. I too have very intimate experience with this condition from various sources. I choose the philosopy of "cast not your pearls before swine", because if some Internet-guru-bully types see a chink in your armor they will definitely go for it. I've been round and round with knowitalls and it goes nowhere pleasant IMO.

It has been said that depression is anger turned inward. With that I caution the bully/guru types to not push or condescend those who are sick. You don't know how far they've been pushed already. Instead offer a kind word, a smile and a silent prayer.

If a political victory, a rise of rents, the recovery of your sick, or the return of your absent friend, or some other favorable event, raises your spirits, and you think good days are preparing for you. Do not believe it. Nothing can bring you peace but yourself.

www.emersoncentral.com...

reply to post by 1SawSomeThings


Very right you are. It's prevelant on internet sites, especially ones like this that contain sensitive themes. I wonder, though, is there possibly a correlation between a website containing conspiracy theories and the fact that many [much more than I anticpated] members have attested mental disorders, namely: Clinical Depression?

An honest and sincere query, not a pre-determined judgement on my part I may add. Some of us still desire knowledge and are always seeking to understand others. Please remove my query if it is considered off topic.

Reading this threads made feel depressed to no end. I feel sorry for those who suffers depression. I'm sure I have been in there. It is a hell in life. What you feel is the reality of the entire life. But I tell you there is no way around it, you have to go through it. The more you try to evade it, the more it will follow you around and haunt you.

GO THROUGH IT. It takes the will of Hercules, but what is the price of life? Go deeply into the depressive situation in meditation and feel the burning heat(extreme fear, embarassment etc) of it all to the bone. And you won't feel it next time. Or it won't be as bad as it used to. Of course, easier to say than done. But then what can you lose?

This thread gets!
And many flags!

I personally do not suffer from depression nor panic attacks, but my future wife does! And after being naive, then educated on the contrary, and being able to see the proof and FACTS first hand, I retract my earlier statements from long ago.
I'm not so sure its mental though, because based off of my girlfriends experience, the depression was passed down through the family thus suggesting a more of a genetic level of transformation. The " side effects" would be that of stress, depression, and or panic attacks.

A speculation was made and I quote, " In the past, doctors believed that depression was the result of thoughts or emotions that were troubling for a person. More recently, experts realize that there can be several factors working together that will lead a person to become depressed. The three most important of these are biological, genetic, and environmental factors."

source:www.healthyplace.com...

Whether depression is genetics, or in fact mental, one thing is for sure, it is very real, and very difficult to contend with.

reply to post by BAZ752

Very right you are. It's prevelant on internet sites, especially ones like this that contain sensitive themes. I wonder, though, is there possibly a correlation between a website containing conspiracy theories and the fact that many [much more than I anticpated] members have attested mental disorders, namely: Clinical Depression?

By prevalent, I assume you mean the knowitalls/bullies. These types may be in the beginning stages of depression, just looking outward instead of inward (so far).

As far as the numbers claiming clinical depression: Could be. Maybe to the depressed person the world is so screwed up, that seeing or looking for conspiracies makes them feel better in some way. Like: maybe some things can be fixed if we can figure out who is behind them.... rather than things naturally always going against the little guy.

reply to post by geo1066

Dang that 'speed reading' course! You lose all context by using it.

obviously, we need to define our terminology
1. physical(biological) disorders are incorrect work of body organs that can lead to further brain's damages & mental disorders as result.
2. pure mental disorders are based upon bad memory caused by horrible accidents in the life(body is health), usually accidents were happened in the childhood.
3. mix of #1 & #2.

Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
reply to post by BAZ752

 

Very right you are. It's prevelant on internet sites, especially ones like this that contain sensitive themes. I wonder, though, is there possibly a correlation between a website containing conspiracy theories and the fact that many [much more than I anticpated] members have attested mental disorders, namely: Clinical Depression?

By prevalent, I assume you mean the knowitalls/bullies. These types may be in the beginning stages of depression, just looking outward instead of inward (so far).

As far as the numbers claiming clinical depression: Could be. Maybe to the depressed person the world is so screwed up, that seeing or looking for conspiracies makes them feel better in some way. Like: maybe some things can be fixed if we can figure out who is behind them.... rather than things naturally always going against the little guy.

That's precisely what I mean. The internet along with many open-room type forums available through applications allows for the individual to be an arm-chair expert on almost anything you can imagine. This translates from anything like a moral-outcry to something as trivial as say, what is your favourite colour. I'm sure you'd agree, the internet has almost demanded the attention of those who would never normally speak up, confront, question or even deliberate on any given topic in person because it allows for them do so without consequence. In turn, this then paves way for the tidal wave of ignorance that can be seen because it's a simple way to vent their angst or malcontent with the status quo. It's a powerful tool but yet totally flawed by how it can represent true intentions.

Back on topic. If you consider someone who suffers clinical depression [as described in this thread] then I don't think it's unfair to suggest that an element of emotional vulnerability must also have a part to play either, you know, their 'need to know', or that passion to at least find resolve in alternative theories beyond the mainstream.

I've personally been involved in a lot of banter with friends over being a member of ATS, purely because they cannot understand the spectrum of thought that goes on here. On one hand you have critical thinking that would wet the mouths of some of the very best of scholars but on the other hand you the irrational, senseless rhetoric surrounding some forums here that genuinely pose the question of whether the OP is actually mentally disabled. Unfortunately the latter tends to draw more emotional response, and I'm not sure whether there actually is a relationship between these wild, outlandish topics and those who suffer a genuine mental illness.

Like others here I suffer from depression and anxiety. I would never say it isn't real. It stinks and I hate it. I have had it all my life and am always so amazed/envious of people who are so carefree and seem to not be bogged down by the heaviness of the world. I am not suicidal but I do hope that one day in death I will feel happiness or at least peace.

Meds and therapy worked for me, but let's not forget our responsibility in this deal. I had always been emotionally troubled, mainly because I didn't understand my own emotions. Additionally, over the course of my life, my mind had been filled with many misperceptions which were often the result of my own emotional problems. During my first hospitalization, after about a week, it dawned on me that the methods I used to understand and live life weren't working anymore. That was the start upwards from the bottom of the hole. I came up with the concept of "peeling the onion". I am a detail-type thinker, as well as being very creative (musician, writer), so there were a LOT of layers to my onion. My job was to peel each layer and look at it critically to see if whatever process I used to draw the conclusions of that layer were working properly for me in a productive fashion. It was important to make haste slowly. I am a bulldog-type person, but I learned I had to be careful, because if I took on too much at one time I would get overwhelmed and suffer a setback. It was a matter of using the old "iron fist in the velvet glove" technique.

Positive thinking is critical to being the best you can be, but something that is key to this is eliminating negative thinking. Negative thinking is totally the enemy of mental health and happiness. Don't ignore the reality of negative things...be aware of them but don't ruminate on them. We are creatures of habit, and it's a matter of degree. A few negative thoughts cross your mind and it isn't long until everything sucks. My method was, when a negative thought crossed my mind, I would shout at myself internally, STOP! The problem is to be so self-aware that you recognize what's happening and when it happens. I see depression as genetic, behavioral, emotional, and psychological. You gotta really want to be well to stand a chance. Every day, I "weed my garden", trying to find and get rid of misperception, bad attitude, emotional confusion, anger, and anything else that is counter productive to being the best I can every day of my life. Sorry for being so long, but this is a very complex subject.

If you rely on someone else to explain how you feel, then you're already misunderstanding the nature of "personal" experience. All the people who espouse the existence of depression do not realize the level of conscious control they have that goes well beyond the conceptualized forms that can be linguistically deduced. I've changed other people's moods consciously and so it's really not beyond my realm of expertise to control my own. Being helpless is probably another to make you experience this negativity, but part of it may be that you've allowed external appearances to fly under the radar and take over your views on your own psychology. This is called a feeling of powerless and it presents itself as this intractable agreement with anonymous intellectuals who have intelligently disengaged you from your own emotions enough to allow them control over how you view your own.

I personally have invented my own concept of emotional states or whathaveyou that I can only define as bliss and whatever is better than that. And it must be consciously constructed, otherwise, this depression you have is a combination of letting others give you feelings that aren't yours ("depression") and then the feeling of helplessness that comes from not using your brain's capabilities to do whatever it wants. Listening to someone else's concept of psychology is not really what you want but I see no one with enough creative spark to discredit someone else's ideas simply because it's intellectual laziness to default to some "expert" opinion.

I've had PTSD until I realized the existence of post-traumatic bliss. I created a list of symptoms for it and it became my experience.

Also, I don't feel sorry for people who are depressed at all simply because I had something worse than depression and I fixed it on my own without any outside help. Invent your own feelings that are yours and yours alone and stop borrowing from a list that so many #ing other people have used and abused (many of whom are dead.) I personally like to feel the unique, unused, unidentified so nobody can tell me what I am feeling because I don't want your "opinion" on psychology since nobody in psychology has offered anything but a #ing lexicon for problems they can seek to "correct" by bleeding you of your income in the process. Problem-solution dynamics of a business, look it up.

Originally posted by catseyequeen
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

I am sorry but you can # off. I chose to be happy and it didn't work. You can't be happy while someone is crapping down your throat and smiling.(unless that is what you are into) That is what it feels like. It feels like you try and try to work the formula of life that you see everyone else around you using and they seem happy but you can never seem to get it right.

See you are highlighting many of the areas that i speak of...

1. Don't gauge your happiness on what you think others feel... That's like chasing the dragon... You'll never catch it.

2. If someone is crapping down your throat and smiling, are you somehow trapped?

You blame yourself for not being able to figure out what everyone else seems to know instinctively.

Once again, we have no idea what others are feeling... Stick to your own and stop comparing yourself.

Which sets you apart immediately. It is like living an entire life life on the outside of a glass wall. You can interact with the world you see but can never fully be a part of it or understand it. Almost as if everyone else is in on a secret or is speaking a secret language but no one will teach you how to do it.

Yep i know exactly what you mean...

And it frustrated the heck out of me, until I realized that what you have described as a sensation of isolation actually becomes your greatest strength... Much like ACOA have traits which empower them once they get out of their own way, this sensation is the same.

As long as those other people out there matter... You will never find happiness...

You literally have to cut out any concern for what kind of life others may be having or what others may think, or that there is some secret world of others that you could somehow be part of...

Especially if this causes you melancholy

Point is, you could choose to happy if people would stop treating you like crap. Which may not be how it really is but it is certainly how it is perceived.

Once again you are basing your subjective sensation of happiness on what others do... You are a slave to others..

I had a very similar situation, where how others treated me was a huge sense of disappointment, until i stopped valuing how others treat me...

I refuse to be manipulated by the neurosis of others.

That is also why depressed people tend to live alone. By choice. Can you imagine how many people LIVING this nightmare are all alone because you "healthy" people pushed them out, treated them like they had control over it or just plain abandoned them because they were "too much trouble" or "killed your high" or " seem psycho" or just weren't FUN enough for you?

Your state still seems to be so dependent on others... Happiness is unconditional...

Once you learn how to be happy, it really doesn't matter what others do, or how you live... Once you learn to be happy, you begin to take full responsibility for your state... Objective and subjective....

The bible says that each man must work out their salvation with fear and trembling, and im not much of a religious guy, but that is so true... No one else can bring you your heaven.... No objective change in the environment can bring it to you.... You are the only one who can save your soul...

I hope every single one of you who ever dropped a person because they weren't HAPPY enough for you has something so tragic happen to you that you know what it is like to want to die every second or every day. THAT would be REAL justice.

Actually, as funny as it may seem, I have been "dropped" by the unhappy in the past... Back when I bought that I could actually cause change in others... I know this to be false now, but then I did what I could, but if someone isn't happy they change their situation a lot in an attempt to find it.

And at the time being dropped was a concern... But not any longer...


Once I found happiness, i didn't need anyone else... Enjoyed, sure, but need... Not like before. I don't need anyone now to feel great about who I am, and what kind of life i have lived, or how i will die. I am married, and I love my wife and family dearly, but I don't "need them" for my happiness... They simply enrich the happiness i already have.

This is why if you are unhappy alone, you will be unhappy with others... If you are unhappy poor, you will be unhappy rich... Oh you may forget about your unhappiness for a while but true happiness never leaves once you have made that choice anc continue choosing it.

And best of all... It has nothing to do with other people, actually the inverse is true... The more it has to do with other people, the more the happiness is conditional, and thus not the enduring happiness of which I speak.

Originally posted by catseyequeen
It is people like you who create people like us.

You are precisely the (type) of person who negates responsibility.
People are not artificially created by hateful people.
You had, and even now still HAVE a choice how to react.

Originally posted by catseyequeenI don't care what you BELIEVE. Beliefs are FLIMSY in regards to TRUTH.

(1) This isn't a very nice thing to day (2) Truth is self evident.

Originally posted by catseyequeenI just spent 7 years destroying my life and BELIEVED I was doing the right thing. I lived completely wrong and the only way I know is because of NOW. The way it all turned out.

This is incorrect and I will explain why, ok?

You are under the presumption that "if only if I would have ________" things would have turned out differently.
This is incorrect and you have no way of knowing that. When you change one thing, other variables(s)
inadvertently change as well. All that you can do is make the best decision you can.

We all make mistakes but choices based on intellect/common sense Vs. emotional based thinking
always works out for the better.

Originally posted by catseyequeenI did all the wrong things all the while BELIEVING I was in the right. Being a good person, choosing to happy, paying the bills, being responsible, being the good wife, letting him take my life from being "CENTERED" and draining everything from me. Using me, abusing me, taking me for granted and in the end screwing someone else. All the while I thought I should be the good person and things will go my way in the end. That is what everyone says, right? Well, it didn't work. I got screwed, wasted 7 of my prettiest, most formative years of my adult life and now I am the fool. I have a sense of right and wrong. In exchange for all this "love" he gave me, I think I should be able to "love" him as much as I want and any way I want. (which are all pretty gruesome and satisfying) But I won't. I will stay bottled up and tortured because as many people have said to me, "No one cares."

Reality check:
Abuse, being used, un-appreciation, getting cheated on ARE all opposite of LOVE!!!
In conclusion you KNEW what he was doing to you yet you stayed.
YOU chose to look the other way with a false sense of security via "faith" and "beliefs."

2nd, you don't have to stay bottled up and tortured.
I care, and I know exactly what you've been through and still feel.

The Solution:

The first issue I see is that in the face of your woman's intuition (telling you something is wrong)
You fail to act. You fail to communicate (effectively) and assertively.
You need to tell the man you care about (in any relationship) how it makes you feel when _____happens.

He may even suffer from "clinical depression" but *IF* you don't want to deal with all of the
hindrances this and many other mental illnesses encompass it helps to:

-get to the know the person before getting with them/moving in (let alone marriage)
-Realise there is no 50% 50%.....It's 100% for each of you.
-Take control of your emotions and never, NEVER give all of your self right away (save some for You)
-Come to the realisation and the truth:

You did everything possible to make things work.
You went out of your way and in some way you even lived out a portion of his life/his duties...
If you are not appreciated you know what you do?

You write down all of your feelings, grab his hand, guide him to the dinner tabe.
Sit next to him as he reads it and look him in the eye.
IF you have to say anything, if he avoids addressing your concerns...
IF he actually has the nerve to conditionally apologise only if you do so first....

GTFO of there!
You, I....We all need unconditional love.
More importantly we all deserve it!

If you want a relationship to last:
-you never make it last.
-you need to get to know the person and discover his true intentions (society has bred us to lie)
^^^ The kicker is is that even the honest people lie in order to protect themselves (still its lying)

The real key to having good relationships:

-NEVER have expectations! Ever.
-Never apologise based on reciprocity (or negotiate for one)
-Be honest
-If you want unconditional love? Practice it!
-have a slow tongue
-humility: 24/7
-control your emotions
-never follow your heart ever. -Lead it instead-
-discover your spirituality

The real kicker is that you reap what you sow.
Most people attribute this to coincidence.
Most people are wrong.

Remember this: With love there aren't any arguments...
No raising of the voice, yelling, throwing things to perpetuate a sense of terror.
With unconditional love there are discussions.

If you ever have someone do any of the above.
1st you have to let them know (even though they should already know it is wrong)
2nd, resolution=swift action. Failure to act=tacit agreement you like to be abused.

Make sense?

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
This thread gets!

And many flags!

I personally do not suffer from depression nor panic attacks, but my future wife does! And after being naive, then educated on the contrary, and being able to see the proof and FACTS first hand, I retract my earlier statements from long ago.
I'm not so sure its mental though, because based off of my girlfriends experience, the depression was passed down through the family thus suggesting a more of a genetic level of transformation. The " side effects" would be that of stress, depression, and or panic attacks.

A speculation was made and I quote, " In the past, doctors believed that depression was the result of thoughts or emotions that were troubling for a person. More recently, experts realize that there can be several factors working together that will lead a person to become depressed. The three most important of these are biological, genetic, and environmental factors."

source:www.healthyplace.com...

Whether depression is genetics, or in fact mental, one thing is for sure, it is very real, and very difficult to contend with.

My current wife is the first in two generations to change her mindset and thus remove the depression and anxiety. Turns out, it was a trait which was not so much genetic as it was cultural...

Depression can be fatal. For thousands of years people have been dying of broken hearts. Only in the last 100 years has society cared what you think or feel. People suffering from depression 100 years ago did not tell anyone and it was absurd to listen to such talk. We have undergone a change in our mindset. We now care about "How are you?".

My cousin suffered from major depression all his life. I showed him this thread and he wanted to write a reply. I would describe him as an angry goth in High School. Now, he is always laughing and smiling when i see him. Not to say that his disorder is fixed, I'm no doctor neither is he. His is just one inspiring example of overcoming depression;

K


"I was diagnosed OCD and clinically depressed as a teen. I was on medication. I stopped taking pills in my early 20's when I discovered Marijuana. I'm 30 now. I stopped smoking a few years ago, it didn't do it for me anymore and I had a kid. Over time, I had drastically changed my life, outlook, routines, diet, work. It was a difficult process but it ended my depression.

I occasionally feel down but not like when I was younger. I am a happy person with a love for life, the exact opposite of the me 10 years ago.

Depression may be a true condition but I proved that it was curable with a change in lifestyle.

The biggest part of it was realigning my outlook on life. It really is all perspective and your perspective is dictated by your physiology. What you eat, if you are rested, in good shape, dealing with problems in your life. Most of the time, what depresses you at any given moment is not the real problem. It is often something deeper in your subconscious, some past problem that you haven't dealt with that "taints" your mood. Sometimes it is completely phantom, like you are in a bad mood for no reason. A nap may help or some water. I have come to realize that there is always a reason even if it is "unreasonable" or unknown at the time.

As a teen, I was convinced my problem was medical and unchangeable. My doctor said that talking about my depression would eventually make it easier, that SSRI's were not a cure, just something to make it easier to function and reflect. I was on two types of Fluoxetine which i hated. They made me feel like a zombie. Weed was better because I could regulate my intake and I often did it socially which was part of the "therapy".

My baby girl has been a main source of happiness in my life and caused me to reflect on life itself, what is important and what isn't. Part of the reason I don't get depressed anymore is because I have eliminated my "triggers". The things in my life that I would usually get depressed about I confronted one by one. They were people, places, ideas and memories that i have dealt with or eliminated from my life. As for the phantom stuff, I found that most often it was my diet. Believe it of not, more fruits an vegetables and sun have made a huge difference.

I have argued with people before about clinical depression. Part of depression is that feeling that you are trapped and can't do anything about it. So you feel like this is how it will always be and there is no other option. That is the condition talking. The power to overcome major depression is always in your mind even my Doctor told me this. Yes, for some the condition may be so bad that they are unable to change or fix it. But this kind of case is rare. For most people it's just perspective.

To all you clinically depressed people, you can get better, you just have to let go of some ideals and find some joy in your life. It's not that you are weak, it's like you are trying to fix glasses while wearing them (using the glasses to fix the glasses). I know that reason doesn't work when you are in that kind of mood, which is why the weed was good for me because it brought up my mood so I could reason. Prozac would only make me not care, i wouldn't have any revelations.

I know it is hard but it is not impossible you just have to find the key, something that turns the black into white. For me it was my daughter and my spirituality. You have to believe that you can fix yourself and that you must. What you do in your life comes second to actually living. If you don't deal with your depression first, you and your life will never be as good as it can be."

-Namaste

Mo