Depression is NOT a Real Disorder

Originally posted by trika3000
reply to post by PETROLCOIN

 

i was just wondering - If no one had told you that you were "clinically depressed", what would you have thought it was?
And if they didn't have medication available for "depression" what do you think you would have done?

Are you trying to say that if no one had told him he was not depressed, then he would not think he is depressed, is that what you are trying to say? If you are happy, you dont need anyone to tell you you are happy. If you are sad, you don't need anyone to tell you you are sad, you just know.

And if there was no meds for people who suffer from these disorders, then they would have a very unhappy life indeed.

Originally posted by CTPAX

Originally posted by Skid Mark



That is how I see it... I could be wrong... I do think that pills is not the answer... they just mess with your mind even more... If you take them... don't have kids... ever...

Excuse me? Are you kidding me with this sentence? Why should someone that has taken anti-d's not have kids"... ever"? The way you construct your sentences makes you still sound all of 15, so I think you might change your mind in a few years when you learn a little more about life.

I've been on Anti-d's before, I've been suicidal, I've been as low as you can imagine, but none of this has ANYTHING to do with my capability as a mother. I'm a freaking great mother & I can tell that in the way my daughter looks at me and smiles, and she's got more than most children could ever need. She has a father that loves her & a mother that would do anything for her. The way I feel in myself due to my depression does not impact her whatsoever.

Jay-morris

See, you say "i genuinely believe" you are going by what your mind tells you, and this is the problem. Unless you suffer from this disorder, or know someone who does, then you will really never know what it is like. It easy to look from the inside and say i think this, i think that, but its not the same.

I am going by logical thought and my own experiences so why have you decided to pull me out on that specific statement? It is neither proving or disproving what you're trying to say, so don't insult me by considering that my ''genuine beliefs'' are the problem when they are not. I stated that I believe we're in control of our state mind more than we might acknowledge, I did not say that we're in control of our own depression did I?

Thank you so much for saying this. I also suffer from UNTREATED clinical depression and it is a nightmare trying to make people who don't know what it feels like understand. It is a world of extremes. Black or white. Live or die. The torture for me comes from my brain thinking my way and it completely conflicting with the way the world seems to work. It is a torturous existence and I do not consider contemplating suicide an unusual thing. I am surprised at the pill commercials which suggest that you need help if you do. I think about it all the time. It is so natural and normal for me that even the small things will break me down. Don't even get me started on the dark side of depression. (yeah, there's a dark disturbing side that all of you doubters and normies should be very thankful we don't show you and try very hard to suppress) The anger. The rage. After all the sadness is done, and especially when I feel wronged on a personal level, I feel the sense to right it but not in ways that legal at all. I never do anything. I let that rage and sense of injustice make me hate the whole world just for being there.

Also, there is the voice. The demon in my head that constantly barrages me with insults and torments. "If you could just get happy people would like you more and you'd have more friends and then you wouldn't be depressed anymore." Then he quickly follows with "but you can't do that. You're pathetic and no one cares about you or wants to be around you." It is that voice commenting on every aspect of life that tears me down. I try to fight it with "light. happy thoughts" but that is like taking a Care Bear to wrestling match with Satan.

All I have to say is all of you people who know someone who says they are depressed, just listen to them. Don't judge. You are not in constant mental and physical pain that everyone around you thinks is bull#. Have a freaking heart (like you tell us to do) and understand that you are only alive because we haven't truly broken yet. We walk that line everyday. We should hailed as martyrs. Bearing all of the pain, from where we usually don't know, so you can go out there and be happy go freaking lucky. We walk around in a nightmare we CAN'T wake up from. Have a little sympathy or leave us alone!

ps: keep in mind as you form your opinions and beliefs that if you don't actually experience this or don't understand it then try to learn as much as you possibly can BEFORE forming an opinion. Be willing to admit to yourself and everyone else that you know NOTHING of what it is like. We suffer so you don't have to. You not understanding that only serves to make people like me HATE you and this existence even more and it adds to the vividness of the waking nightmare that is life.

reply to post by Unity_99

you commented my post absolutely out of context where did i say all humans are only self-sorry???

most people on this planet endure, there are NO SELF-SORRY's.

most people in the our World have not problems with depression because they need to search ways for surviving, & have no at least minute to enjoy of depression depression has struck countries of comparatively easy life

reply to post by Jay-morris


i wasn't trying to say anything - i was asking a question
You mention being happy, do you think there is such a thing as clinical happiness? (you'd kinda have to think there would have to be). Now you got me wondering, could clinical happiness become a problem?
Anyhow my question still stands, what would've the OP thought their depression was if they weren't told?
As far as meds and undiagnosed ailments, i would tend to think self medication would happen with alcohol or illegal drugs.

The term clinical depression is a joke. I can take anything and put clinical infront of it and it doesn't make it unnatural, or the fault of the patient. Clinical clutz, clinical jealousy, clinical jokester, clinical alcoholic, clinical etc. All of these things are in very much control of the "patient." The term they should be coining is "clinical quitter."

Why is it so PC to say that depression is not the fault of the patient? Diabetes, heart disease, parkinsons, cancer, addiction. Almost every "disease" can be attributed 90% of the time to the person not taking proper care of themselves. But not depression?

The most insulting part is that when someone has all the "traits" of clinical depression, like me, and they overcome them...And they say then I just wasn't "clinically depressed" enough. It's a cop-out. The funny thing is the cop-out showcases the true negativity and thus cause to their depression. Hiding their problems in a shroud of lies.

There are too many "clinically depressed" people for this to be a disease. Millions of years of evolution, and then out of no where 10-20% of the population is born with a genetic disorder that makes them "depressed"? Give me a break. If you believe in evolution you cannot believe that 10-20% of our population is naturally suicidal. If you don't believe in evolution, then you must be a creationist...and believe in a God, but then religious people are 50% happier so maybe you're for real.

That's the only way I believe one can get true clinical depression, through brain hemmoraging, trauma, or the .01% with the bad gene.

Although I agree that clinical depression is probably a real condition, I don't agree that medication is the only thing that helps. I believe a combination of some meds, a certain diet, exercise, and therapy is what should be done about it. I also have a hard time believing that it isn't somewhat caused or made worse by the person themselves. My mother is on prozac for anxiety/depression. She had cancer in 1977 and hasn't gone back to work since. In the summer she camps the whole time and she's happy and fine. As soon as she comes home she is miserable and cries about money, how miserable she feels, she can't work, she can't handle my kids, I'm not calling her when she's sick to see how she's doing. But miraculously she goes on vacation and she's ok again. Well her doctor said she has clinical depression with anxiety. This is why some of us feel like it's not true that the sufferer can't help themselves and why we don't believe what they have is real. Sorry if this is confusing or offends anyone, but I guess after dealing with my mother for so long, I don't know what to think.

Well said OPer, I experience this every day and fortuantly I have a few things I hold on to dearly or else id probably end up the worst way out of this. Depression, clinical or otherwise is a major problem many of us face. Usually its lifestyle, i.e unable to pay the bills, or other things like that..

But also there is the self-hate aspect. Thinking your worthless, insignificant and that everyone is better than you. Clinical depression is the isolation of one from the rest of the world, alot of the times. Powerless to better your life, and improve it, and it ends up a big huge repeating circle that requires alot of attention to cure.

The unfortunate part is that mental, i.e the mind/brain illnesses are not really cared for much in society.

"Oh s/he's just a crazy fella, a loopy etc guy!". Instead of caring about these people, instead they are scorned and made fun of. It may be a factor of the strong destroy the weak, however fortuantly there are people out there that can and do voice themselves about this.

There is no difference between situational depression and clinical depression....they both feed off one another in a loop of sorts.

The chemistry of the brain changes due to chronic destructive ways of thinking and healthy constructive ways of thinking.
Train Your Mind, Change Your Brain: How a New Science Reveals Our Extraordinary Potential to Transform Ourselves. -Sharon Begley

Black or White thinking is what is killing us all. The ones in the middle are referred to as what is called "Being centered"

"Behold, the man has become as one of us, to know what is good and what is evil" Genesis 3 verse 22
Its an illusion that binds most everyone of us. From it stems all sorts of sickness of the mind and body.

reply to post by PETROLCOIN


I agree with the OP, depression is certainly a real condition. I have seen multiple friends and family members battle with depression, even lost a few to suicide. I assure you that they were not doing it to seek attention. That being said I have also seen people seek attention by acting suicidal. In my opinion it is part of the disease.

Dear OP I will try to add some comments on what you said from a metaphysical point of view, I find it that clinical depression has a very good explanation in the metaphysical world. If people in this situation can understand their existence, they might cope with the pain better.

Situational depression is an overall bleak outlook on your current lifestyle; a dissatisfaction with your current standard of living. Clinical depression is a true disorder of the chemicals of the brain which cannot be treated or cured by going for a walk or talking to a friend.

Situational depression can be resolved by going out and trying to do something about your life, this will give you a sense of accomplishment if you are committed. Here you nailed it.

As for clinical depression, yes that is real. However I would like to add something to your point made:

I have clinical depression. Without the aid of medication, my typical day consists of a strong build-up of anxiety throughout the day until it erupts into a full blown panic attack. I suffer from racing thoughts of hopelessness and helplessness. I feel trapped inside my own body and my own mind. I see my world as a prison which I cannot escape. When I am in this state of mind, I see no way out; I see no end; I feel locked in my suffering for the remainder of my life.

Most people that find themselves in your situation - aka you feel trapped inside your body, the world is a prison you want to escape - are new to this environment called Earth. This is a very natural reaction to a state of existence you are not accustomed to.

Bear with me this will make sense in a minute, you as I are free spirits that cannot be placed and constrained in one small body. It is natural to feel out of place, pain, struggle since you are not meant to exists like this. The world here on Earth is of a very dense and slow energy, while us as spirits are expansive and fast moving. Being constrained to one human body, mostly the brain is not really what a free spirit is about in its natural foam. Actually most spirits or souls if you like don't really enter 100% in the body since that would make the brain overload and break, making your life here impossible.

Your soul is a much higher energy form that placed a small part in this body, in this life you now exist, you feel it's not right, and you are right, it is not, but there is a reason you are here and that entails that you cope with this pain since eventually you will get accustomed with it. Maybe not in one life but after a while you will. This would make some conclude that new souls to Earth have this symptoms. In a sense that is true, but that does not make you any less better than any other soul or person on Earth that is maybe here since a longer time.

The only advice I can offer you is that you have to fight it, and yes suicide is an option, but that will not help you in the grand scheme of things, the point of being on Earth in this life is to cope with the pain and learn. Once you live a few lives this pain will go away as you get used to it. It might seems as I am not of much help, what I try to point out is that suicide will not solve your problem it will only perpetuate it in more lives.

You can disregard all I said, but the way you feel and describe your existence fits perfectly with the situation I described, of a new soul in an alien environment. Once you know who you are you can better understand and cope with your life here on Earth. I hope this might help someone.

The depression is bad but a panic attack can feel like death coming on.

I'm usually a fairly healthy guy, excepting getting the flu or a cold occasionally, but over the weekend, I had my first panic attack, and man, that was a weird, and scary, experience.

I was a second away from calling 911, as it happened in the middle of the night, but I'm not even sure if I would have had the faculties (during it) to make the call correctly. It was really pretty bizarre.

I don't think that most people just dismiss it away because they are mean, but because until you've experienced something for yourself, it's hard to have the same outlook on it.

reply to post by HunkaHunka



I am sorry but you can # off. I chose to be happy and it didn't work. You can't be happy while someone is crapping down your throat and smiling.(unless that is what you are into) That is what it feels like. It feels like you try and try to work the formula of life that you see everyone else around you using and they seem happy but you can never seem to get it right. You blame yourself for not being able to figure out what everyone else seems to know instinctively. Which sets you apart immediately. It is like living an entire life life on the outside of a glass wall. You can interact with the world you see but can never fully be a part of it or understand it. Almost as if everyone else is in on a secret or is speaking a secret language but no one will teach you how to do it.

Point is, you could choose to happy if people would stop treating you like crap. Which may not be how it really is but it is certainly how it is perceived. That is also why depressed people tend to live alone. By choice. Can you imagine how many people LIVING this nightmare are all alone because you "healthy" people pushed them out, treated them like they had control over it or just plain abandoned them because they were "too much trouble" or "killed your high" or " seem psycho" or just weren't FUN enough for you? I hope every single one of you who ever dropped a person because they weren't HAPPY enough for you has something so tragic happen to you that you know what it is like to want to die every second or every day. THAT would be REAL justice.

reply to post by catseyequeen

If you truly tried not to be depressed you wouldn't spend 15 minutes writing back to someone you just told to "# off"

Reality check: start trying.

reply to post by venik88


It is people like you who create people like us.
I don't care what you BELIEVE. Beliefs are FLIMSY in regards to TRUTH. I am shocked someone on this site doesn't know that. Beliefs are about as truthful as fairy tales. Anyone can make one up. Everyday we may be wrong. I just spent 7 years destroying my life and BELIEVED I was doing the right thing. I lived completely wrong and the only way I know is because of NOW. The way it all turned out. I did all the wrong things all the while BELIEVING I was in the right. Being a good person, choosing to happy, paying the bills, being responsible, being the good wife, letting him take my life from being "CENTERED" and draining everything from me. Using me, abusing me, taking me for granted and in the end screwing someone else. All the while I thought I should be the good person and things will go my way in the end. That is what everyone says, right? Well, it didn't work. I got screwed, wasted 7 of my prettiest, most formative years of my adult life and now I am the fool. I have a sense of right and wrong. In exchange for all this "love" he gave me, I think I should be able to "love" him as much as I want and any way I want. (which are all pretty gruesome and satisfying) But I won't. I will stay bottled up and tortured because as many people have said to me, "No one cares."

reply to post by venik88


Hey, it's morning, woke up wanting to get bloody revenge and decided to go online instead. You may have just saved a life. Keep talking to me. They'll get to live longer. That is why I spent 15 mins. replying. I am trying not to do anything too crazy. This topic happened to fit my mood. Floating between rage, anger, extreme sadness, and helplessness. I'm loony this morning and you guys are my hope. I need all of you now. I would hope reading this thread would help you understand a little what we're going through.

reply to post by PETROLCOIN



The over medication of people to forget or ignore there core social problems and not growing mentally stronger is whats wrong with alot of folks today.

Originally posted by SarK0Y
reply to post by geo1066

 

Certain situations DO require a supplement of some sorts ( ie-drugs). EXAMPLE- You were born with an abnormal sequence of

i said for it in early posts: depression is not independent illness -- it's result the different mental/physical disorders, but most cases have been only self-sorry. drug treatment can be applied just to situations caused by physical disorders

Dang that 'speed reading' course! You lose all context by using it.

For a point of clarification, if I'm understanding this correctly, I think you hit the nail on the head.
A physical disorder would be that you are physically or better yet, 'biologically' outta wack or lacking there of. Whereas a mental disorder, although you're still outta wack, your body still has all the nessesary functions to correct itself. If you are litereally missing something, it would then be considered a 'Physical' disorder.

Now if I understood that correctly, Who in their right mind.... Sorry, that would be redundent wouldn't it.

Originally posted by george_gaz

But surely the fact that you fight tooth and nail to claim that depression is real is probably a reason that you are suffering from it.

Do you not see the fundamental error of your logic???

Do cancer patients die because they believe in cancer?
Do epileptics have seizures because they believe in epilepsy?
Do you feel a toothache because you believe in cavities?
Do you stub your toe because you believe the wall in there?

It is infinitely easy to disregard and marginalize the pains of others, isn't it? Especially when the illness they have is still, largely, stigmatized by society. No, sir, my medical issues are not born in the fact that I am aware of them.

The fun part of all this, really, is that in all of the years that I have had to take medication for these problems (nearly 30 years in total for anxiety/panic attacks) I have never once had a medical professional suggest that it was all in my head. Not once. Only on the Internet - where the Google makes us all think we are geniuses does this phenomenon occur.

Originally posted by george_gaz

Instead of running around going "oh I am unhappy thus depression is real and anyone saying otherwise is wrong" is doing nothing but psychologically drawing you to the fact that "you are depressed". If you chose to focus on other things and not fight people's "ignorance" and constantly bringing the subject to light just forget about it buddy.

You make quite the series of highly incorrect and patronizing assumptions here. And, while doing so, you demonstrate an extreme naivety about mental health issues in general, but depression in particular.

You don't know me at all, so to assume that I "run around going 'oh I am unhappy thus depression is real...'" (Notice what I did there? I actually used quotations marks around the exact words you'd typed. This is the way we quote. When you incorrectly use quotation marks it is disingenuous because casual readers will possibly make the assumption that the words you artificially attributed to me were actually spoken by me - when they obviously were not. ) In fact I have an active and productive life. I do not spend my time moping and playing the role of the victim - common misconceptions about depression... that we are just "emo" people who mope around complaining.

A little education will go a long way.

Originally posted by george_gaz

Granted ... it might not be easy but get yourself a hobby. A hobby that I might add is not ATS and browsing the topics on depression.

I know you kick off at this but fine. I just wanna help and I think that drawing your mind onto the issue is not the best way to go about it.

I actually have several hobbies - and, as stated, live an active life. I think you, again, make generalizations about depression and assume that I lurk here, reading 2012 and prediction threads, working myself into a tizzy and falling into a doom and gloom mindset. While I do spend a fair amount of my free time on ATS I stay in the political forums (where anyone who has debated with me will probably gladly tell you that there is nothing timid or morose about my positions) and on chat. I don't fixate upon negatives.

Did you catch that? I said I do not fixate upon negatives. Kind of a kick in the pants there, huh? Kind of belies the myths and false stereotypes...

Here is a little bit of reality of how these things work... My ex-wife and I were talking once and she said that what scared her most about my "problems" was when they kicked in while everything was perfect. It's one thing for a person with depression to go into a funk when life is the pits. It's expected. But when massive depression kicks in at a time when all is even better than good... This is what the naysayers don't seem to be able to understand. This is actually how depression works. You've got the beautiful spouse, the great job, the cute puppy, happy kids, lots of money, and a work promotion just a breathe away.... and you wake up one day empty. No catalyst. No event to set you off. No dwelling on negatives. No reason at all. You go to bed fired up, obscenely happy, proud, and content... You wake broken, lost, and miserable.

The actuality of this disease is nowhere near what many people think it is. I am not a spoiled brat who whines when life throws me a curve ball. I am not an attention whore who threatens to cut if nobody looks at me. I am not obsessed with being unhappy. I am not emo, goth, scene, club, or any other label that tends to get thrown around in these discussions. I have a nearly 30 year work history, mostly in management/supervisory positions. I am successful in life, for the most part.

Chances are that if you took the time to really get to know somebody who deals with depression you would find yourself realizing that you had it all wrong to begin with.

~Heff