Muslim challenge to tuition fee interest charges

reply to post by elusive52


Are you suggesting that in the UK, that because of your faith, you should have the right to live by different rules, and that muslims would get their higher education paid for by the State should not have to pay interest of loans given by the State but those in the UL who are not Muslim would have to pay interest.

Of course, I need to restate that I do not believe that the State should fund higher education at all. If people want to get higher education, the state should not fund it. All the training and education I have gained since leaving school, has been funded by me.

Why should I to see my taxes being wasted on higher education that does not add value to the net worth of my country.

Originally posted by elusive52
why are you all so against Islam? please ask yourselves that question. Do you really still believe what you hear on the TV??? surely if your already on this site you know who controls the media.

In the cafe at my Daughters nursery school there has been a recent ban on pork, the reason is because in this school around 20 percent of the kids are muslim, but let's not forget that the headmistress is muslim too. You tell me why I should accept this and also if you believe it's right.

Really, how dare muslims try to enforce sharia law here, if you want sharia law go to a muslim country, we're not having it here.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Women already have rights here. Thanks.

Also it's arrogant attitudes like 'Allah owns the world' - Most English people do not believe in Allah, you can twist it however you want - but London is just a percentage of England.

The thing about England you fail to realise is that we're a friendly, joking, generally nice bunch of people, quite accepting, honest and generous...

BUT - When you start taking the notions of being English away from us, such as our ability to laugh at ourselves and each other, then it gets serious.

For instance - claiming things like we all belong to Allah is going to upsett some folk, who do not believe nor want to believe in Allah. As i mentioned England belongs to MANY people, many religions, beliefs and attitudes.

www.moonbattery.com...

This image is just ONE reason.

Because in England we can insult each other to a degree, i can openly say for example ' I don''t like christianity' and not expect to be crucified.

The second you start threatening us or imposing some sort of pseudo-dominant attitude over us....

americanvision.org...

'Europe come crawling when mujahadeen come roaring'

'Liberalism go to hell'

'Butcher those who mock Islam'

--

Here's the deal. We non-muslims are not allowed to do anything about this type of extreme Muslim, so why don't you peaceful muslims do something.

Because you won't be called racist or bigots.

edit on 7-11-2010 by mr-lizard because: (no reason given)

there are too many issues in your statement to cover here but I will do my best:

first of all let me make clear I am English I was born in Nottingham and grew up there. I am white, all my family for generations are white English so I know exactly how English people feel.

you said:
Here's the deal. We non-muslims are not allowed to do anything about this type of extreme Muslim, so why don't you peaceful muslims do something.

Why don't you do something about the true terrorists and extremists in the world the English and American armies/governments. they are the ones murdering people by there millions not Muslims, its incredible how blind people are here in the uk, you truly are asleep to the truth.

don't start using this bs about why don't peaceful Muslims do something about extremists you need to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask what you are doing first.

we Muslims live in peace it is the west that has bombed invaded and murdered us by the millions, please don't show a few pics of some guy holding a sign, I WILL SHOW YOU PICS OF DEAD BABIES AND RAPED WOMEN at the hands of America and England.

the hypocrisy of you people is staggering.

2.
Also it's arrogant attitudes like 'Allah owns the world' - Most English people do not believe in Allah, you can twist it however you want - but London is just a percentage of England.


Arrogant? by claiming God/Allah the god of all of us Christians Jews Muslims etc owns the world...please are you serious. what nonsense. of course God owns the world he created it.

3.The second you start threatening us or imposing some sort of pseudo-dominant attitude over us....
please...I'm not going to even respond to this macho bs.


The west has stolen, bombed, raped and murdered Muslims on a massive scale and you have the gall to moan when Muslims get angry and protest holding cards with words written on them??? where is your justice?

Originally posted by Hawkwind.

Originally posted by elusive52
why are you all so against Islam? please ask yourselves that question. Do you really still believe what you hear on the TV??? surely if your already on this site you know who controls the media.

In the cafe at my Daughters nursery school there has been a recent ban on pork, the reason is because in this school around 20 percent of the kids are muslim, but let's not forget that the headmistress is muslim too. You tell me why I should accept this and also if you believe it's right.

Really, how dare muslims try to enforce sharia law here, if you want sharia law go to a muslim country, we're not having it here.

how dare Muslims? im white English for the 5th time... I have every right to this country as you do.

This is a Christian country yes??? please refer to your own bible, the bible bans pork! Leviticus I think.

anyway as I said yes I want to live by shariah, why should I not?

you can all eat pork if you wish, if you want to eat an animal that eats feces and will eat anything you put in front of it including human meat then be my guest.

the Quran banned pork because it is a filthy aggressive animal and you are what you eat...say no more!
the Jews also don't eat it for the same reason.

reply to post by elusive52


Okay...both sources according to Wikipedia.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...


UK population is about 62 million.
Muslim population within the UK is about 2.4 million

So, the Muslim population is roughly 3.9%.

The UK is a democracy, and in a democracy the majority rules. So, your personal beliefs and those of your muslim brother/sisters do not even approach enough of a political force to make a blip as it relates to Sharia Law.

There are many other belief systems, and attitudes that I am sure have much higher representations of the population. So, have fun in your prayer circles and coffee ships...talking about Islam replacing the rule of law...but it is not going to happen.

Originally posted by elusive52

there are too many issues in your statement to cover here but I will do my best:

Cheers.

first of all let me make clear I am English I was born in Nottingham and grew up there. I am white, all my family for generations are white English so I know exactly how English people feel.

And that's not my issue. But i'm listening.

Why don't you do something about the true terrorists and extremists in the world the English and American armies/governments. they are the ones murdering people by there millions not Muslims, its incredible how blind people are here in the uk, you truly are asleep to the truth.

All i can do is my best. I've marched against wars, protested on a number of issues and I use the internet to my advantage, letting others know about events, wars, financial issues, alternative news media, positive stories and lots more. I actively sign petitions against many issues, i challenge corporate attitudes. I give money to local and international charity and do what I can.

we Muslims live in peace it is the west that has bombed invaded and murdered us by the millions, please don't show a few pics of some guy holding a sign, I WILL SHOW YOU PICS OF DEAD BABIES AND RAPED WOMEN at the hands of America and England.

But you don't live in peace, as sad as that is. Muslims have been involved in war for centuries, and not just against the west - against Hindu's, Sikhs, Buddhists and Jews. That is not how i define 'peace'.

the hypocrisy of you people is staggering.

Yeah staggering you away from any form of logic or use of memory functions.

Arrogant? by claiming God/Allah the god of all of us Christians Jews Muslims etc owns the world...please are you serious. what nonsense. of course God owns the world he created it.

But not everyone believes in god. Yet you and a lot of other religions of all types keep pushing one religion onto another and onto another - shouting in the streets, you openly admit your laws are decided on a God - that not one of you can prove exists. Yet you criticise our laws which are at least substantial.

My arguement is not about whether God, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Allah, Vishnu or indeed Thor or Loki the trickster, Isis, Ra or even Cthulhu exists - but without any substance besides a book (funnily enough written by the hand of man) , you expect us to follow rules written thousands of years ago?

3.The second you start threatening us or imposing some sort of pseudo-dominant attitude over us....
please...I'm not going to even respond to this macho bs.

I'm not threatening anyone. I'm not imposing anything.

The west has stolen, bombed, raped and murdered Muslims on a massive scale and you have the gall to moan when Muslims get angry and protest holding cards with words written on them??? where is your justice?

And the east has stolen:

voi.org...

bombed

atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...

Raped

sheikyermami.com...

On a massive scale

en.wikipedia.org...

www.sunnahonline.com...

www.white-history.com...

www.ancientgreece.com...


Or do any of these not count?

Wow, just wow, I'm speechless, not so much because people are protesting interest charges, I think everyone hates interest charges, but considering this is happening in England I wouldn't be surprised if they buckle to Islamic law.

Originally posted by elusive52
[
how dare Muslims? im white English for the 5th time... I have every right to this country as you do.

This is a Christian country yes??? please refer to your own bible, the bible bans pork! Leviticus I think.

anyway as I said yes I want to live by shariah, why should I not?

you can all eat pork if you wish, if you want to eat an animal that eats feces and will eat anything you put in front of it including human meat then be my guest.

the Quran banned pork because it is a filthy aggressive animal and you are what you eat...say no more!
the Jews also don't eat it for the same reason.

I'm not Christian, in fact I'm not religious at all so it's no use you using the 'christian card' against me, it won't work. Yes, you have the right to be in this country but you don't have the right to try and force sharia law onto an already existing semi-functional society (I say semi, I'm a realist), a society that my grandparents fought for in world wars.

You also just implied that anyone who eats pig meat is a pig themselves with your ''say no more'' comment and this is just the kind of muslim attitude that I see from most muslims. You think anyone who isn't a muslim is a pig, it's nice to see how well you adhere to the quran, I'm not even going to give your book a capital Q, it's not worthy.

So yes, I'll say it again, how dare Muslims try to impose their will, sorry, Alah's will, against us.

Originally posted by Hawkwind.

Originally posted by elusive52
[
how dare Muslims? im white English for the 5th time... I have every right to this country as you do.

This is a Christian country yes??? please refer to your own bible, the bible bans pork! Leviticus I think.

anyway as I said yes I want to live by shariah, why should I not?

you can all eat pork if you wish, if you want to eat an animal that eats feces and will eat anything you put in front of it including human meat then be my guest.

the Quran banned pork because it is a filthy aggressive animal and you are what you eat...say no more!
the Jews also don't eat it for the same reason.

I'm not Christian, in fact I'm not religious at all so it's no use you using the 'christian card' against me, it won't work. Yes, you have the right to be in this country but you don't have the right to try and force sharia law onto an already existing semi-functional society (I say semi, I'm a realist), a society that my grandparents fought for in world wars.

You also just implied that anyone who eats pig meat is a pig themselves with your ''say no more'' comment and this is just the kind of muslim attitude that I see from most muslims. You think anyone who isn't a muslim is a pig, it's nice to see how well you adhere to the quran, I'm not even going to give your book a capital Q, it's not worthy.

So yes, I'll say it again, how dare Muslims try to impose their will, sorry, Alah's will, against us.

Sorry if I offended you but it is a common saying you are what you eat.

Yes it is Allahs will to impose his will on the west, it is already happening, thats why people like you are so frustrated!

islam has the answers to our problems, just look at our filthy disgusting degraded society and you will see what I mean, sorry if that offends but it is the truth.

child abuse, murder, rape, theft, debauchery, incest, and general horrendous behavior on our streets. children out of control. banksters stealing billions, corruption etc etc etc and you say semi functioning society? our society is already fallen...

Islam has the answers...I know it drives you crazy to hear this but it is the truth. Muslims are the cleanest best mannered most welcoming caring generous people on the face of this earth. the west has a lot to learn from them.

I have travelled all over the Muslim world and this is what I have witnessed.

don't play the Christian card? well then don't you play the "my grandparents fought for in world wars" card. so did mine!!!

didnt merkel in germany just hint at this sort of things ,

just my two cents

reply to post by elusive52


You've just rudely offended me and my country.

If our way of life is not for your liking, please i'm pretty sure the Taliban may love to hear about your daughters being educated. If our women offend you, please wear blindfolds, as they will not change for you.

If our 'out of control' children terrify you, may i suggest moving to a safer climate, like Sierre Leone were they hack other children's limbs off for sport and notoriety.

If you don't like the UK government, may i suggest you go and live under the Iranian or Saudi regimes? They love it when people start thinking for themselves over there.

If our education system, our inventions and technology and our medical ingenuity is not to your liking, may i suggest you go and educate your children in Afganistan, and hope their school isn't destroyed by the Taliban, or may just maybe they might have their heads hacked off in Indonesia, simply for wearing the wrong religious symbol or suffer from the penalties of strict Islamic law when your wife gets raped.

Be my guest.

Originally posted by elusive52
[The pig] a filthy aggressive animal and you are what you eat...say no more!
the Jews also don't eat it for the same reason.

You obviously have zero knowledge of the history of Uk animal husbandry, stock raising and prized methods.

Maybe your home countries are savage, dirty places - but the UK was the country that introduced agriculture standards, farming techniques and employed many elements of breeding quality animals.

Your ignorance is obvious.

As much as I despise every religion in existence, perhaps it may be in my best interest to temporarily convert to a religion that exempts me from paying my school loans in full. I really do not know why I haven't though of this idea sooner.

OR, perhaps I should claim to be another establishment such as Goldman Sachs or AIG so that I can receive a government bail out, in the event that the religious loophole doesn't work.

Once I am free of paying interest on anything because of my temporary conversion to religion, and after I am bailed out from my debt just like the crooks who brought the economy to its knees, maybe then I can finally give myself a nice bonus just like they got except I would be deserving of mine whereas they should be thrown in prison.

There is nothing worst that a convert of any kind. They do not want to debate issues, just spill out what they have be told as part of their conversion.

There are far more intelligence people on this site who can debate the merits of each faith.

So, elusive52 rather than show us you can retain facts that you have read or heard, debate the issues of this thread, or do you have to ask your Imam to go off converting script?

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
There is nothing worst that a convert of any kind. They do not want to debate issues, just spill out what they have be told as part of their conversion.

There are far more intelligence people on this site who can debate the merits of each faith.

So, elusive52 rather than show us you can retain facts that you have read or heard, debate the issues of this thread, or do you have to ask your Imam to go off converting script?

wow I can see how angry you all are!!! touched a very sore nerve here ey?

I have debated all the issues you raised.

of course I'm going to repeat what I have learned from Islam, it is the truth from god so why wouldn't I? the best knowledge is Gods knowledge.

you try to insult my knowledge yet you cant even spell?

Islam is the truth and I can prove it to you, please visit the website I have linked for you www.quranmiracles.org...

debate me on this if you dare?

reply to post by elusive52


I am not angry just very bored with your attempts to not answer or discuss the points of this thread. You say you want to debate the issues. Answer my post of several hours ago. But no, you wants to bang on about how good your faith is. Guess what, I do not care for your faith or any other other organised faith.

And you question the spelling in my post?

You are deflecting rather than actual debate the points raised in this thread. At ATS, put up and shut up

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by elusive52

 

You've just rudely offended me and my country.

If our way of life is not for your liking, please i'm pretty sure the Taliban may love to hear about your daughters being educated. If our women offend you, please wear blindfolds, as they will not change for you.

If our 'out of control' children terrify you, may i suggest moving to a safer climate, like Sierre Leone were they hack other children's limbs off for sport and notoriety.

If you don't like the UK government, may i suggest you go and live under the Iranian or Saudi regimes? They love it when people start thinking for themselves over there.

If our education system, our inventions and technology and our medical ingenuity is not to your liking, may i suggest you go and educate your children in Afganistan, and hope their school isn't destroyed by the Taliban, or may just maybe they might have their heads hacked off in Indonesia, simply for wearing the wrong religious symbol or suffer from the penalties of strict Islamic law when your wife gets raped.

Be my guest.

All that you spout is nonsense! anyone can claim anything.

England is my country as well as yours and thats just tough.

of course we have invented some amazing things but that is not going to help you on judgment day.

what have you invented? your taking credit for what other people have done. you will come before god on your own on judgment day and judged for the deeds you have done, I promise you that day will come and you will be called to account, all I can do is warn you, if you don't believe that's your incredible loss www.quranmiracles.org...

how can you even debate that our society is not out of control? I'm not attacking it I'm just speaking the truth.

Islam is the answer

www.quranmiracles.org...
.

reply to post by Freedom ERP


what points? im answering like 5 people here,please repeat your question and i will answer it.
regards

YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!

I knew Muslims will save/cure West from insanity.

3...2...1...

Real terrorists are banksters.

reply to post by elusive52


You are pushing me further and further away from Islam. You don't sell it well and your attitude stinks.
If you are the posterboy for Islam, thank god i'm an atheist.