Muslim challenge to tuition fee interest charges

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes

Muslim challenge to tuition fee interest charges

www.bbc.co.uk

Muslim student leaders say changes to tuition fees in England could breach Islamic rules on finance, which do not permit interest charges.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Oh please... we in the US have fees attached to almost everything... I don't see Muslims protesting that, here. It apparently only "violates Islamic rules" at "convenient" times and not "every" time...



Having said that, tuition increases are getting insane and the cost of higher education (in the US) continues to go up, it appears that the UK may also be having this issue. The problem does need to be addressed in some way.

I find it just amazing. Muslims need to grow up. They act like little babies when they can't get their way and they say we're discriminating against them. When in reality, they're being treated the same as everybody else. They should go back where they came from if they don't like living in the west.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Wide-Eyes

 

It seems Muslims are the only group of people who are actively involved in politics, and who are actively use their rights to make changes.

Agreed Oozy.

The rest are acting like slaves, just working hard, taking anything that is send towards them by the elite, and not asking any question, or showing their dissatisfaction.

This i disagree with. Many, many students are reacting. Of all cultures, class, backgrounds, religions, creeds and attitudes. And not for their own sakes either, as current students won't be affected - but we're doing this ffor our friends, our children, family and associates.

reply to post by Hefficide


Why do you have to turn it into some Shariah law shenanigans. Most religions have rules relating to interest. Interest IS evil.

But I think you would have had more of a point of you just mentioned that interest is a secular part of society, and if ANYONE has an issue with interest, then they shouldn't even be taking out a loan.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


This is right up there with the recent law the people of Oklahoma passed, making it illegal for a judge to use Sharia law or international Law when it rules (there are a few pitfalls to this practice). The Muslim population is now challenging the law.

If Sharia Law is to be used, then we need to do it in the manner the Native American Indian Tribes do it. Its augmented to be within the constitution, it gives the safeguards in the constitution, and allows for appeals. It prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, but does allow for creative punishments that are within the law but unorthodox.

Absent that, take it out of here.

L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, once said that the best way to get rich was to start a religion...so he did. This was, I suppose, because he figured that he could thusly brainwash people into giving him all of their money - and receive it tax free!

So, I'm thinking...if these students are successful in getting their way (that is, getting special treatment whereby the Government must loan them money interest free because of their religious beliefs), a group of us here ought to form a new religion...and then maybe move en masse to England.

I don't really care what the God worship aspects of the religion are...will leave that to the more spiritual sorts here (I would just end up ignoring most of it anyway, as I do with my Anglican training). But I do think it is imperative that we include the following basic Holy Tenets:

1) It is against our beliefs to have to pay interest (of course), but it is ok to charge "non-believers" interest at whatever rates the traffic will bear.
2) It is against our beliefs to be forced to pay back the principal on any loans made to us, unless that loan is made to us by another believer.
3) It is against our beliefs to ever be turned down on any loan request as this would hinder our ability to live a good and comfortable life...and anyone who tries to prevent us from doing so is therefore evil, and subject to severe forms of punishment (to be determined later...I would prefer that we not use stoning, or other painful forms of sanction - but, hey, I will go along with the group on this one)
4) Our religion will be based on the belief that we are all perfect spiritual beings, and as such we must be absolutely free to do anything we want, whenever we want...let your imagination be your guide. As perfect and free spiritual beings, we will not be subject to the laws or punishments of any country or legal authority. That is, it is against our beliefs to have to pay any fine, or serve any prison time for anything any of us might do.

How about it? Anybody want to join my new religion? I don't want to be the leader, I don't want to have to spend the time writing up a bunch of Holy Books or teachings. Some of you other folks can knock yourselves out doing all of that, and wearing the robes of power, etc. I am just in it for the freebees.

All prospective new desiples...please free to provide additional Tenets, or suggest names for our new faith. I just thought I would get the ball rolling.

This is going to be great!

reply to post by mobiusmale


Well if we go with the Sci Fi theme we should head to Australia. They recognize Jedi as a religion there, although im not sure how they check for medaclorians but I suppose that will just work itself out in the long run.

Originally posted by Darkrunner
reply to post by Wide-Eyes

 

You aren't in Pakistan or Iran anymore, you are in England. You conform to the country nice enough to take you in. If you don't like it, perhaps moving back to Tehran or Islamabad may be a better fit for you.

What? I've never lived in Pakistan or Tehran.

I'm a white Englishman(well half Scottish) and I'm pissed about the tuition fee's. What is wrong with you?

Originally posted by mr-lizard
If i go...

I'll do an ATS street review for you guys and report back on the attitude, effort and feelings of the events.

Thanks for the info and I look forward to any extra info you can provide after the event.

reply to post by mobiusmale

How about it? Anybody want to join my new religion? I don't want to be the leader, I don't want to have to spend the time writing up a bunch of Holy Books or teachings. Some of you other folks can knock yourselves out doing all of that, and wearing the robes of power, etc. I am just in it for the freebees.

Count me in!

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by weemadmental
well they can promote their Islamic laws in their own bloody country, this is the UK, if they don't like or want to follow our rules or practices they are welcome to pick-up sticks and go somewhere else.

I don't like it either and i'm a white, atheist, englishman.

Where should i bugger off to?

Wales.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
reply to post by Hefficide

 

Why do you have to turn it into some Shariah law shenanigans.

Ummm...

Many Muslim students are averse to interest due to teachings in the Islamic faith

It's kinda intrinsic to the article on topic.

It's not about people from Scotland complaining about the price of haggis in china.....?

No-one in forcing anyone to pay interest.

A student loan is an option.
Another option is to pay for the course outright.

If the Muslim community wants students who can't afford to pay outright to be able to study without paying interest,
the Muslim community could always provide interest free loans themselves to enable Muslim students to pay upfront.

They know they could do that. But they pressure the government instead as part of their program of surrepticiously instituting Sharia Law in countries to which they emigrate.

Keep giving in to them and one day, instead of Female Genital Mutilation being an outlawed obscenity in Britain, it will be mandatory.

www.youtube.com...

This is the way Irish students were treated at their protests a few days ago.

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
reply to post by Hefficide

 

I agree. However, my point is, at least they are saying something about the tuition fee increase. The people who are most affected are the British citizens and we aint doing squat about it.

Maybe we should be at least complaining ya know?

I really agree with you. The News factoid is a bit disengenuous but student activism has gone into a long decline over the last thirty years. Yes we should be complaining especially since manual jobs have gone to India and China.

Here's the deal.... If paying interest is against your religion, keep in mind higher education is not a right, it haso always been a luxury. And anyone who believes it's required to attain wealth has already been duped....

There is no class distinctions for those who don't achieve higher education, outside of what they allow themselves to believe.

Islamic banking is hardly alien in concept and similar thoughts are expressed in the Bible. Adam Smith, the great father figure of western economics, also argued against significant interest being charged on loans. For different reasons, admittedly, but he was (at the time of publication of Wealth of Nations) clearly anti-usury.

The few banks that have weathered the financial storms unaided and have left their clients in the most stable financial position are, on the whole, the Islamic banking institutions. Generally for the reasons that Smith predicted, funnily enough.

There will not be a concession made purely for Muslim students because it is wrong and inappropriate. It is more likely that Islamic banking institutions will work towards offering more educational loans.

I disagree with vast swathes of Sharia law and the muslim religion as a whole, but they've got the banking nailed down pretty well.

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by weemadmental
well they can promote their Islamic laws in their own bloody country, this is the UK, if they don't like or want to follow our rules or practices they are welcome to pick-up sticks and go somewhere else.

I don't like it either and i'm a white, atheist, englishman.

Where should i bugger off to?

Don't bother heading to the US. We're right behind you.
I think people will have to stand their ground eventually.

If muslims do not like interest charged to tuition, easy solution.

Don't borrow your money from the school. Go to a muslim friendly establishment, borrow all the money required (interest free), and pay your entire tution upfront.

Problem solved.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
...anyone who believes it's required to attain wealth has already been duped....
There is no class distinctions for those who don't achieve higher education, outside of what they allow themselves to believe.

While I appreciate the point you're making, a degree can have significant practical impact. In my previous working life, people doing the same job were split into paybands based on qualifications. A degree (in any subject) automatically pushed the hourly rate from approx £13 to approx £32. Lack of a degree will also lead to your CV being discarded in some professions unless it is exceptional in other regards - and that's going to be only a tiny percentage of people.

You don't need higher education to get wealthy... assuming you're lucky enough to be one of those charismatic/lucky/naturally talented people who can make a business work. For the rest of us normal people, we need the degrees to compensate for our lack of natural charm and ability