'Damn right' I personally ordered waterboarding: Bush

reply to post by pscysm

Sometimes you have to do what you abhore to do the right thing. That's why it takes strength to stay the course and not be swayed by public opinion.

Therein lies the problem. You see, the USA is supposed to be a Democratic Republic, which means that our politicians need to listen to the people. Somewhere along the line (recently), that notion has been lost on the American people. The public is being indoctrinated to believe otherwise.

They work for us, at least that is supposed to be how it works, not the other way around. In despotic dictatorships, the "president" has the authority to stay the course, in spite of popular public opinion and in that case, freedom is absent. Without public opinion driving policy, we don't have a government "of", "by" and "for" the people and we might as well crumple our Constitution and throw it away.

Sadly, far too many people are all too willing to delegate their critical self thinking skills out to people who are only looking out for their own best interests, even when it conflicts or contradicts their own. The truth is, we are government and we decide policy and until that is realized once again, we will continue to be taken advantage of and the idea of "freedom" is only a buzz-word card, designed to give the illusion that the American dream is still out there. Our founding fathers would be absolutely and justifiably ashamed.


--airspoon

Originally posted by CanadianDream420

Originally posted by antonia
The guy still says he didn't lie about WMD's. You know how many people around these parts believe that these days?

I do...

He was lied to just like the world was. Go to Cheney and his gang for the real answers...

I can't wait to read this book.

Being lied too, and lying are two different things. I believe the problem lies in the fact that he knew he was being lied too, yet still fed it to the World. Can we agree on this?


Cheers,
Strype

reply to post by NeverApologize

If I were in charge it would be sodomy every hour on the hour with broom sticks...

See now, leaving aside this person's desire to be involved in anal rape & the possible implications thereof, what we have is a desire for brutality. Now then, also leaving aside this person's claims about military experience which could not but have involved controlled brutality against them, what do we know causes a person to have fantasies about hurting others?
Before you attempt to chastise me for "armchair" psychology, NA, let me save you the trouble & respond right now. There's nothing trivial or of the dilletante about my interest in the subject &, I have not "diagnosed" you from afar, I have simply asked a question for others to consider.

That's right, this evil little troll should be in prison for his crimes against humanity.

First he lied and told everybody he was a Christian which is a big JOKE since he's a member of the satanic Skull and Bones and goes to the evil Bohemian Grove meeting every year where they do a mock child sacrifice. Bush worships Satan and not Christ. Jesus didn't tell him to go into Iraq and kill over 1,000,000 civilians so Haliburton could make trillions in no bid contracts I can assure you!

Bush works for the satanic new world order as anybody knows that has researched it. It called for the new world order again and again and again just like his evil father. He has ties to the Nazis also.

One of Bush's biggest crimes besides the illegal torture and bogus wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (so the CIA can make $500 billion running the opium) was when he used depleted uranium all over the planet that goes on killing people for 4 billion years. This is killing our own soldiers and their families but of course is NEVER covered on our fake CIA news. Go research depleted uranium for yourself and behold the monster of Bush.

Oh and of course Obama is just as guilty since he's expanded the wars and is expanding the use of depleted uranium and killing of civilians with drones also. He is just as evil as Bush and of course is puppet to the new world order.

Thank you for posting this about torture. The GOOD guys don't torture period! George Washington never tortured a single British soldier! How can the US torture and then bitch about the Vietnamese torturing our soldiers during Vietnam? It's a FRAUD and EVIL! Wake up!

Who would Jesus waterboard?

Not news at all as we all knew the guy was a monster along with the rest of his administration of terror.

Lock'em all up in a box and throw it off a cliff.

In his 2007 confirmation hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee considering his nomination to be Attorney General of the United States, Judge Michael Mukasey refused to address the legality of waterboarding.[1] In my opinion there is no reasonable dispute about this matter. The laws of the United States make waterboarding unlawful in no uncertain terms.[2]

In July 2002, President Bush’s lawyers reportedly approved the use of what are euphemistically called “enhanced interrogation techniques” to question prisoners detained in the War on Terror.[3] These techniques reportedly included subjecting prisoners to “longtime standing,” in which “prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours;” “the cold cell,” where “[t]he prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees [and] [t]hroughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water;” and “waterboarding,” which is an old form of torture also known as “water torture” or “the water cure.”[4] This latter method is preferred by some interrogators because, if the victim lives, it leaves no visible signs of torture upon the prisoner’s body.[5] During waterboarding, the victim is tied to an inclined board, his head lower than his feet, while interrogators pour water over the victim’s face, which may be covered with a towel or cellophane.[6] As the victim breathes in water, “a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.”[7] It was reported that “CIA officers who subjected themselves to the waterboarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in.”[8] According to the CIA, three prisoners in American custody have been “waterboarded.”[9]

In 2002, secret memos were issued by Justice Department officials John Yoo, Jay Bybee, and White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales, in which they argued that torturing prisoners was not against the law.[10] When these memos came to light in 2004 the administration withdrew them, calling torture “abhorrent.”[11] However, in 2005, after Mr. Gonzales became Attorney General, the Justice Department reportedly issued two more secret memos, authored by Steven Bradbury, Director of the Office of Legal Counsel. These memos, which specifically approved waterboarding and other violent interrogation techniques, concluded that these practices would not violate the Detainee Treatment Act, which was at that time pending before Congress.[12] Later in 2005, Congress adopted the Detainee Treatment Act, which prohibited the “cruel, inhumane, or degrading” treatment of prisoners.[13] However, in signing the bill, President Bush issued a statement implying that, under the Constitution, he was not bound by this provision of the Act.[14] Furthermore, the Bradbury memos authorizing the use of waterboarding have not been made public, nor have they been withdrawn.[15] On July 20, 2007, the President issued an executive order stating that the interrogation program conducted by the CIA “fully complies” with applicable law. [16] However, the order conspicuously failed to identify the specific interrogation techniques which are permitted or prohibited. Despite the persistent equivocation of the President, Vice-President, and Attorney General concerning the legality of waterboarding

lawreview.wustl.edu...

Originally posted by pianopraze
Who's got the rope?

The Powers That Be are getting extremely arrogant.

David Rockerfeller's 2002 "Memoirs" ISBN 0-679-40588-7 Chapter 27 "Proud Internationalist" Page 405

"Some even believe we are a part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty and I am proud of it.

Hmm.. He is a friend of mine on my facebook page. I am going to ask him about this quote and see what he says or if he responds at all.

Originally posted by airspoon
There we have it, a confession to war crimes, though I doubt that any justice will ever be served.

If he's guilty of war crimes then so is everyone who knew about it before it happened and as it was happening, including Nancy Pelosi. Obama approved torture overseas. If you charge Bush43 then Obama's gotta' be charged as well. We'd sure empty out DC if we were to go through and weed those folks out. Hmmm .. might be a good idea.

Anyways, at least he owns it. Unlike others who push it off and lie saying they knew nothing about it only to be exposed as a liar later.(Pelosi).

It amuses me, the way people go on about Bush or Obama, as if they have, or had, any actual power.

These people are just puppets.

If powerful people behind the scenes had wanted to prohibit waterboarding, then ''Dubya'' would have outlawed this practice.

As it happens, he was ''persuaded'' to enact this method of torture.

''Like a puppet on a string''.


On the subject of waterboarding:

If we ignore the moral reprehensibility of torture, then it still falls down on a logical level;

How many of us can genuinely say that we wouldn't confess to a crime, or say what the torturers wanted to hear, so as to alleviate continual physical or mental suffering ?

This is why I believe that - emotions aside - torture is a very unreliable way of obtaining the truth.

Unbelievable! GWB ordered water be poured onto the face of a known enemy plotting mass attacks on the United States of America! What a monster! We should hang this asshole right now, how dare the former leader of our country act in such a way that would result in critical intelligence being gathered that could possibly save American lives!

I'm just glad we finally have someone in office currently that takes pride in protecting this country, dramatically improving the economoy, creating vital jobs for all Americans, and has reduced our national debt...

Oh wait...

Originally posted by NeverApologize
reply to post by thecinic

 

This will probably get taken down. Your post uses facts. People don't like that.

Ah, poor thing. We should give his argument credence b/c he anticipates persecution.

In conclusion. I will let the rest bicker this out.

A) War Criminals caught in a time of war by the United States WAIVE their rights. Look back to the Revolutionary war and Civil War.

Thing is, nobody is a war criminal until a court has decided so.

B) Do they deserve ethical treatment? YES! However, pouring water over a blind folded fool is better than being hung by your nutsack. Don't cha think?

Indeed I do. However, I also think that a fair trial before any kind of cruelty beyond whats necessary to maintain incarceration of suspects is even better.

C) Observe what Communist, Islamic, and Socialist states do to captured criminals.

I refer you to my posts above & ask you if its ok for me to kick your nutsack in, just b/c I dont like you, since someone else might shoot you for the same reason.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Very good post Sherlock and you are right, the President is nothing more than a puppet, a PR Person for The real powers that be, whomever they are.

reply to post by Bunken Drum


why don't you guys pull an A-team and break them out?


thought so.

lol!

reply to post by oozyism


Very good post.

These warmongers just don't see it coming.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b7a587a23ab2.jpg[/atsimg]

If anyone was shocked by this, that portion of the population needs to be strung up and shot for willful indifference , and utter stupidity.
George on the other hand... it should take him months to die... Hell , I would do the job if asked, and I would bring my own meals with me. Pro bono for the greater good.

this is old news

reply to post by airspoon


I like him now because all he is is a past president and a good dad. I think however it is telling that the GOP chose this simple and frankly dangerous man as a leader of their party and the United States of America. It speaks volumes.

I know he has a brother Jeb - they should have named George... "Jethro."

Why will no one defend Bush? We were attacked and if water boarding had even a chance of squeezing any information out of enemies than I am all for it. People wanted us dead, and he was trying to protect us by gaining knowledge. Even if it wasn't to protect us do you all think he would authorize something like this just for the heck of it? He was trying to protect our country and all of us are QQ'ing about the way he tried to carry out protection for our country.

Torture is an effective method of interrogation. Is it humane? no.. But sometimes we should be able to sacrifice that for our own protection.

Haven't read the thread, so apologies if this, or whatever to the effect, has already been mentioned:

Not only is waterboarding, just in and of itself, among THE most despicable acts of INDESCRIBABLY cowardly evil, the Bushwhackers were doing it ONLY to extract what they WANTED to hear from the prisoners, at least most of the time, completely regardless of truth. Primary cases in point - Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged "mastermind" of 9/11 (yeah, right), and his cohorts. Holy Christ on a crutch, waterboarding will get ANYONE to confess to being, say, the Flying Spaghetti Monster Creator of the universe, if that's what the torturers want to hear! What, perhaps other than the death (extermination) camps of the Third Reich, could be more indicative of war criminals than those totally psychopathic uber-creeps??!!

Originally posted by fooks
reply to post by Bunken Drum

 

why don't you guys pull an A-team and break them out?


thought so.

lol!

What did you think exactly? Could it have been that, if a bunch of concerned individuals, who dont even know each other, do not amass such transport, weaponry & expertise to have a hope of raiding a long established American military base which is in a hostile country & thus must be in a high state of readiness at all times, & then mount such a raid, that gives you something to lol about?
Thing is, I am a member of an A... er & I team: Amnesty International. We do what we can.
Ever waterboarded anyone?
Ever held political office?
Thought not.
Lol!