'Damn right' I personally ordered waterboarding: Bush

I bet if you were blind-folded and tied to a board and your head submerged underwater you would not care if the water was cold or hot. You are hardwired to react as if you are drowning, which is the entire point of this technique. US defines it not as torture because it does not leave permanent physical damage... But try swimming after you have been water-boarded, or even take a bath or shower.

Try peeing after your thing has been cut off by one of those guys getting waterboarded........

reply to post by Bunken Drum


Truth hurts sometimes, Airspoon is right.
Second Line.

reply to post by mrsdudara

This was against the mastermind of 9/11. Not only could I have done it, I would have had a difficult time just waterboarding.

I realise that many people think like this, but the reality is somewhat different. Why is it for instance that soldiers & LEOs have to be trained to do violence in cold blood? Its b/c doing such goes against our instincts & social conditioning. Also, real violence is not like seeing it on TV, nor even being an uninvolved observer irl. Its visceral. I'm sure any combat vets or, more especially LEOs, who are much more likely to have had to fight people up close & personal, can confirm this.
You think you could get right up close & deal with the screaming, the struggling, the tears, the snot, the puke, the stench of fear in sweat, the urinary &/or anal incontinence &, if as you suggest, going further, the blood involved in torturing someone to the point they are broken, do you?
Bollocks! You're not a psychopath. There aren't many trained hardass veteran soldiers who could do that. IDK if the interrogators who do are psychopaths that have gravitated to, or been deliberately recruited into, that job, or if there's some special intensive training involved, but I do know that, otherwise, an ordinary person would react in an ordinary human manner: with empathy & compassion. They'd be more inclined to attack the torturors than join in the torture. Whether they had the courage to do so is another matter entirely...

Originally posted by NeverApologize
Does getting a little wet and un-comfortable sound so bad now? Stop with the Liberal, "Holier than thou", attitude. Do a little research of your own before screaming at someone about being waterboarded!

I find it curious that you would suggest people to “do a little research” while your whole argument consists of personal opinion and moral relativism, and none based on the factual legal questions.

Do you understand that once someone is incarcerated during war time they have NO RIGHTS. They are a war criminal and are tried as a war criminal. They have ZERO RIGHTS. This was enacted by your boy FDR.

Why cite international law when your comments contradict the United States Constitution...

Sir, please refer me to the the legislation you claim that “once someone is incarcerated during war time they have NO RIGHTS.”

“Your boy”? Because I am defending the rule of law you are labeling me a liberal? I would appreciate if you would refrain from ad hominems, thank you.

What does the
Religion of Peace (islam)
Teach About...

Torture

Question:
Is torture sanctioned by Islam?


Summary Answer:
Yes, but only when there is a reason for it.


The Qur'an:
Torture in this world:

Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides..."

Qur'an (8:12) - "Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their fingertips off them."

Qur'an (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"

From the Hadith:


Muslim (16:4131) - They were caught and brought to him (the Holy Prophet). He commanded about them, and (thus) their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died. Muhammad had two killers put to death, not in the way of "an eye-for-an-eye," but in a more agonizing manner.


Muslim (17:4196) - A married man confesses that he has adultery (four times, as required). Muhammad orders him planted in the ground and pelted with stones. According to the passage, the first several stones caused such pain that he tried to escape and was dragged back.

Additional Notes:


The life of Muhammad teaches that torture is sanctioned in cases of interrogation. The prophet of Islam did not stop his people from beating and abusing individuals in his presence when information was needed, whether it concerned a matter of sexual impropriety or the location of wealth that could be looted. In at least one case of the latter, he is noted to have directly ordered the torture.
SOURCE:
www.thereligionofpeace.com...


You say waterboarding
SOME islamic fascist is so bad?? Get real

reply to post by aptness


Personal opinion? Yes. You cited the one section that was. You also failed to counter my facts, above. I love you guys. You crack me up.

War criminals do not have rights. Go to Bing Search. Apparently all I get from Google is fluff about Change and Obama on human rights. Hmmm. How strange?!

reply to post by thecinic


This will probably get taken down. Your post uses facts. People don't like that.

In conclusion. I will let the rest bicker this out.

A) War Criminals caught in a time of war by the United States WAIVE their rights. Look back to the Revolutionary war and Civil War.

B) Do they deserve ethical treatment? YES! However, pouring water over a blind folded fool is better than being hung by your nutsack. Don't cha think?

C) Observe what Communist, Islamic, and Socialist states do to captured criminals.

Originally posted by NeverApologize
You also failed to counter my facts, above.

What are your facts? I asked you to cite the legislation that you claim that “once someone is incarcerated during war time they have NO RIGHTS.” The burden of proof is on you, sir, to justify your claim.

I don’t need to search the web because I know that such legislation does not exist.

Originally posted by gandhi
Haha, Bush must realize that his own freedom of speech can still have him arrested.

Nope it cannot
at least not by an American
Judicial System.

Bush wrote his own Presidential
Pardon for all crimes committed
while in office and implemented
it through executive order
(meaning it bypassed congress,
illegally).

Originally posted by NeverApologize
"Outside of the US.." Read that part and get back to me. Sorry. I just blew your whole theory out of the water.

www.gpoaccess.gov...

You are referring me to an analysis of the Sixth Amendment and criminal prosecutions. You realize the Sixth Amendment directly contradicts this grandiose claim of yours?

*It only applies to UNITED STATES CITIZENS, not enemy combatants

Sir, the Constitution doesn’t apply just to US citizens, in fact, the Constitution doesn’t, per se, apply to people at all — the Constitution applies to the federal government, not to people. The Constitution regulates the conduct for which government must operate by, irrespective of the nationality of the persons in question.

I’m starting to think you are not interested in serious discussion.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by fooks
i think that alternating cold water with boiling water would be considered torture.




or mixing it up so the chump has no idea which will be next.


good for gw to own up to it.

I bet if you were blind-folded and tied to a board and your head submerged underwater you would not care if the water was cold or hot. You are hardwired to react as if you are drowning, which is the entire point of this technique. US defines it not as torture because it does not leave permanent physical damage... But try swimming after you have been water-boarded, or even take a bath or shower.

so i guess you are speaking from experience?

i still like the boiling water idea, it's all mine ya know.

reply to post by Myendica

I meant, the event has to be more disgusting that someone insulting him/.

Fair enough. I'd find it hard to pick the most disgusting event of his presidency. Still, 9/11 would be high up on my list, but so would the blatant electoral fraud that put him in the White House in the 1st place.

reply to post by aptness


The sixth Amendment applies to the people. You see that little bit of writing at the top? "We The People of the United States".

Ok so you state that the Constitution doesn't apply to people at all? You have just concluded this argument. Water Boarding is OK then. You just said so. It doesn't apply to people. It only applies to the PTB. Incredible... Now that's a serious debate.

Oh and by the way. The sixth amendment does apply to people. It also blows your argument apart.

reply to post by fooks


I prefer the firing squad. Staring down the barrel of a few M-16's would make them talk. This, I am sure would work!

*Bullet whizzy past head...* "OK OK! I'll tell you anything!

Originally posted by NeverApologize
Ok so you state that the Constitution doesn't apply to people at all?

You either honestly don’t comprehend what I’ve said or your purposely pretending you don’t, not sure which one is worse.

The Constitution applies to the federal government: the body of the Constitution says what the government can do, and the Bill of Rights tells the government what it can’t do. It is obvious that the protections in the Constitution are to the benefit of the people and I resent your attempt to distort my position and outright put words in my mouth that I didn’t say.

The George W. Bush administration afforded fewer protections, under GCIII, to detainees in the "War on Terror" by codifying the legal status of an "unlawful combatant".

These islamic terrorist who: Hide behind women and children in combat, Hide in schools in combat, Hide in mosques in combat, set IED's in combat, sound like an unlawful combatant to me,

George Bush commited no crime....

In their own country they WILL put your body neck deep in sand then STONE YOU slowly to death THATS TORTOURING YOUR OWN PEOPLE if your found to have committed adultry.

If simply waterboarding these peices of scum seems all that bad to you.. GO LIVE WITH THEM FOR A WHILE. See how long you last being an infidel UNDER SHIRIA LAW you schmucks!

reply to post by aptness


It's the second choice. I'm basically ignoring you because you have absolutely ZERO understanding of OUR Constitution!

Regardless of who it applies to; the people or to our Government; it does NOT apply to Enemy Combatants! They have ZERO rights. Especially if they are held in Gitmo. Like it or love it, it is a way for us to gain info on upcoming attacks.

I say if one of these terrorists drowns during a water boarding it is just one more dead terrorist in the World!

reply to post by thecinic


You absolutely nailed it. I would pay for his/her plane ticket with my own money. Or I could start a fund raiser for "Go live in Islam for a week - See the World!"

reply to post by aptness


Uhhhhh....

"Sir, the Constitution doesn’t apply just to US citizens, in fact, the Constitution doesn’t, per se, apply to people at all "