Alcohol 'more harmful than heroin' says Prof David Nutt

Hahaha. The 3 least harmful drugs are considered among the worst ones to the government. It's completely true too. Mushrooms are less toxic than aspirin. MDMA turns you into a euphoric lovey dovey walking bag of happy energy. The only thing about psyclobin, '___', and MDMA is that they have low LD50s. However you'd have to eat over a pound of mushrooms to even possibly get enough psyclobin to OD. And at that point you'd be mentally gone.
But how is cannabis above benzos and methadone, let alone any of those? =S

reply to post by Extralien


This report is illogical. It is no different than comparing a Hummer and a Honda Accord and suggesting that the Accord has a more negative impact on the environment than the Hummer. How do they make that claim? They make it because Accords out number Hummer's 10,000/1 and they are taking a look at the impact of all Accords vs. all Hummers.

The science/methodology around this study is rubbish and clearly agenda driven.

reply to post by TKDRL


To TKDRL: You, my friend, need to get into kegging your own beer.

To everyone else: Alcohol is like any harmful substance. If you are drinking to get drunk, you're doing it wrong. If your using of it detriments someone else, you should probably stop.

With great beer comes great responsibility.

reply to post by TokiTheDestroyer


Methadone could arguably be safer because it doesn't impair, however being an opiate like pain killers & heroin.. it's physically addictive.. weed isn't.

I find this internet debate hilarious, there are no "hard" or "soft" drugs.. opiates, stimulants, hallucinogens.. alcohol a depressant.. Cocaine is an illegal stimulant, yet pharmaceutical speed like Dexedrine is legal.. crush up a time released Dexe and snort it.. it's a coke high, chew an Oxy and swallow it.. heroin high.

Heroin is an illegal opiate, while pharmaceutical opiates like Oxycontin, Vicoden, Norco, Tylenol3 and so on are legal.

The black market offers opiates & stimulants of unknown quality and or purity, big pharma offers known.. that's the only difference. An Oxycontin addict and a heroin addict are both opiate addicts.

The black market is kept in place by your party leaders, for one reason.. they know it creates addicts faster.

BTW, speaking of Methadone.. here in the US an opiate addict can be pacified for about $50 a month based on a month supply of 120 10mg tabs 4x daily.. meanwhile $50 of heroin will last a day or two.

There is no "war on drugs", all the opiates & stimulants drugs you could want are readily available at the doctors office.. legal issues are phony reasons politicians use to leverage drug seekers into getting their fix from big pharma.

reply to post by davespanners

highly illegal substance only used by very small groups of people.

Very small numbers?.. lol.. ever been to the dentist?.. those happy pain killers pills you took were opiates. Dexedrine / Ritalin are legal stimulants people give to their children for ADHD.. it's like giving kids a line of coke for each nostril for breakfast.. hilarious how govt / big pharma propaganda has people believing giving coc aine to kids is bad, even evil, but a Dexe?.. open wide boy and take your pill before school..lmao. Heroin addicts are pathetic, buy those Oxys sure do help with aches / pains.. makes it easier to concentrate at work producing more widgets and wont fail a drug test.

Opiates and stimulants are not used by small numbers, I'd venture to say they're being given out in record numbers..

I think the study claimed that alcohol is the most dangerous drug as far as the people around you possibly being affected is concerned...such as drunk driving or physical violence and the like, or other things, not the internal harm to the body of the imbiber of sed alcoholic beverage

...brought to you by the CIA.

A load of crap. People can drink socially. I've never heard of casual or social heroin usage though.



Nonsense like this sends a bad message to our kids

reply to post by Shivering Coward

People can drink socially.

Spend a little time as a bartender and you will come to a far different conclusion.

The rare bird, can drink socially without it resulting in physical and mental deterioration to the point where it interferes with their life.
More often than not people over indulge and live to regret it.
If they are lucky.

By the time most people realize they ave a drinking problem the most permanent damage to liver and kidneys is already done. That is if it is all not erased in one car accident after just 2 drinks.

Reaction time slows dramatically.
Read my signature...

Alcohol related death/asphyxiation, is pretty common.

Cheers.

Im 27 and a heavy drinker(more than 3 drinks on average a night). I've had 3 close friends, 2 in the past year alone nearly kill themselves behind the wheel of a car after drinking heavily. I am not proud of this. I have never been addicted or done heroin but I also know of several people who have lost thier lives to it, some overdosed, one hanged himself with a belt after his parents locked him inside his room to detox.
I dont see what the point in debating which one is the lesser of 2 evils, one socially accepted and one not. or any HARMFUL illegal drugs for that matter.
People are responsible for their own behavior, and as Eric Hoffer once said, Wise living consists of not making good habits, but perhaps as few habits as possible"

I am not sure if heroin is worse than alcohol - however more people consume alcohol and being raised by an alcoholic and abusive mother I can tell you its bad news!!!! I have had family members and friends that have went totally downhill on alcohol. Their health is terrible, they look like crap, they've been in accidents, in debt, lost their jobs, bad tempers toward their children and family members and the list goes on and on. Why it is legal is beyond me when their is a natural herb that doesn't destruct like alcohol. Well, that's laws for ya, and of course those running our countries have to drink - dare say they partake of anything natural.

As someone who has never drunk, smoked or taken any form of recreational drug in my entire life, who also comes from a country that is near the top when it comes to the bing drinking culture in both the youth and the adult population and has seen its effects all i can say is... thank goodness someone finally came out and said it, i know lots do regularly before but at least this time its getting some minor attention.

I find it funny that those who expound the notion of personal freedom and harp on about 'get out of my life' in these thread are probably drinkers themselves and quite a few have and still miss the simple glaring fact this study is about the total impact of the drugs, not just on the user but society as a whole... people yell and scream about illegals and benefit takers soaking up their hard earned tax dollars all over ATS... yet the problem with Alcohol in the western world takes up more of your tax dollars id say in the long term, but no one really likes to complain or think in that direction since it would mean having to owning up to being a part of the problem themselves as drinkers...

I dont drink, and find those who expound the right to do so comical and rather infuriating... if you want to flush your money down the drain (or all over the bathroom floor in a drunken stupor), I have a number of other far more humanitarian uses for it where it would do more good beyond giving you a mental haze you wont remember the next morning and a ripping headache and screwing your liver over.

I find the entire notion of consuming alcohol and cigarettes bizarre... the practice just registers as insane to me. Yes its a high horse but im not gonna get off it.

Over 10 years ago when i worked in a supermarket as i was cashing up two of the female teen staff walked in chatting, they went on about how wicked it will be on the coming weekend when they get totally plastered at X's party... given they where underage and reveling in the chance to get 'blotto' all I could do was frown and face palm in the corner, if I had had more guts id have told em how stupid they were being... lost opportunities to maybe make a difference in someones life I guess.

Pardon the rant, just something I feel strongly about and seeing some people more or less rip into this professor as some sort of bad guy because of their uncontrollable requirement for an amber liquid angers me.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by Shivering Coward

 

People can drink socially.

Spend a little time as a bartender and you will come to a far different conclusion.

The rare bird, can drink socially without it resulting in physical and mental deterioration to the point where it interferes with their life.
More often than not people over indulge and live to regret it.
If they are lucky.

By the time most people realize they ave a drinking problem the most permanent damage to liver and kidneys is already done. That is if it is all not erased in one car accident after just 2 drinks.

Reaction time slows dramatically.
Read my signature...

Alcohol related death/asphyxiation, is pretty common.

Cheers.

edit on 1-11-2010 by rusethorcain because: (no reason given)

Not that I think alcohol addiction is totally great or anything, but you don't become an alcoholic after getting drunk a few times. But (as I understand it) you can get "hooked" on heroin after a few uses. You also have all those nasty needles lying around with heroin and the much increased potential to get infected and spread blood borne pathogens.

Sorry you live in such a high problem-drinking area. I know many-many people who socially drink and do not get drunk.

I have to disagree with study. I have heard people say they were addicted to heroin and crack the first time they ever used it. It was the most euphoric high ever. Heroin addicts are more likely to get HIV, Hepatitis or overdose. Crack and Meth addicts will steal anything from anybody including their own family members and have the highest relapse rate of most addicts at least here in the US. Meth is a huge problem here in the US and the people will cook it up with little kids in the house and cooking Meth is like making bombs and creates lethal vapors.

reply to post by Shivering Coward

Sorry you live in such a high problem-drinking area.

The Virgin Islands, New York and Florida...stay away from those areas and you should not run into any alcoholics.

Of course I am joking...a little.

I get your point though.
I have never tried heroin because I am one of those addictive personalities,
...I know it would have sucked me into a stranglehold.

Alcohol you can at least see it sneaking up on you - seems like heroin clobbers you over the head and drags you off into addiction mode before you know what hit you.

I only know a couple of heroin addicts second hand (friends of friends)...they are very wealthy and cannot stop.

Originally posted by Iamherefornow
I have to disagree with study. I have heard people say they were addicted to heroin and crack the first time they ever used it. It was the most euphoric high ever. Heroin addicts are more likely to get HIV, Hepatitis or overdose. Crack and Meth addicts will steal anything from anybody including their own family members and have the highest relapse rate of most addicts at least here in the US. Meth is a huge problem here in the US and the people will cook it up with little kids in the house and cooking Meth is like making bombs and creates lethal vapors.

All true but they are not legal and pushed on every street corner sign and grocery store window.

It is the pervasiveness and mass availability of the drug alcohol ,that makes it every bit if not more dangerous.

reply to post by rusethorcain


That you are right about. I am hearing ads for beer on the radio first thing in the morning when I am in the car. I thought how stupid this early in the morning.

reply to post by Extralien


I/ for one. like a fag and a pint! True! There are people who go over the score and abuse it... So what! There are insider dealers who abuse the Stock Exchange and numerous junkies and crack heads to go! I despise the 'Nanny State'... People like Cameron telling us what is and what isn't good for us! I hate being patronised, especially by these hypocritical morons! Why don't they all go and take a run and flagon at theirselves... Barstewards!

reply to post by Extralien


Well, yeah, it can be I suppose. My thinking is that because it is not taboo or illegal, people are not as afraid of it and can overdose on it easier due to over consumption.

Here is some info about Alcohol from a book i am reading called The Book of General Ignorance:

Good news. Alcohol doesn't kill brain cells, It just makes new cells grow less quickly.
The idea that Alcohol kills brain cells dates back to the temperance campaigners of the early 19th century, who wanted all Alcohol drink banned. It has no basis in scientific fact.
Samples from Alcoholics and non Alcoholics show no significant difference in either the overall number or the density of neurons between the 2 groups.
Many studies have shown that moderate drinking can in fact help increase cognition.

The book also goes on to say that abuse of Alcohol does cause serious damage by interfering with the working process of the brain (nothing to do with the death of brain cells)

So enjoy a few for me

i'm gonna have to read this study later. as for now..errrrr?

i'm not sure how this guy defines dangerous. i've seen people destroy their lives with alcohol and i've seen people who have destroyed their lives with the other stuff.

here's the difference between heroin and alcohol....how many alcohol 'users' do you know? how many of them are on the road to killing themselves?

now...how many heroin users have you met....how many were on the road to killing themselves?

if you were pure of both heroin and alchohol and were offered a six pack or some heroin which one would you choose?

there's just got to be something to say for the addiction factor. i guess is my point.