What have you got to loose, just answer this question...

reply to post by rushunt


the problem is the religious-politicians can't even follow those simple rules. Don't lie, don't steal, unless "God" wants us to invade foreign countries, then it's killjoy time.

reply to post by filosophia


True dat!

Originally posted by eaglewoman
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

That is irritating. Again, ae christians, you think you are different and more blessed, that I can't feel the same awe as you.

Grrrr!

Um, I am sorry if you are irritated. I did not say that you could not feel the same awe as I do, I actually said that I hope you will.
Watch the YouTube clip in my first post. It is from the movie Contact.

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by rushunt

 

the problem is the religious-politicians can't even follow those simple rules. Don't lie, don't steal, unless "God" wants us to invade foreign countries, then it's killjoy time.

I will try and help you understand a little better.
1) Many people claim God who do not know him, They do so in hopes of using those whom do believe.
2) Even with those whom believe, they will still sin. Believing does not change that. We all fall short. We just have to realize what we did as being wrong, ask for forgiveness and try again.

reply to post by Quadrivium


You said: "You hope I will", meaning that I don't, yet. That is an "I'm better than you: assumption.

Look, I understand that you feel the need to send the "message" and "save" everyone, but, that kind of thought pattern doesn't allow for free will, tolerance of religion or cohesion of society. It is an attitude that" we will eventually convert the wolrd". I don't see the future being successfully forged for humanity with that kind of attitude.

You're probably are unaware of your bias, but to me it screams "I'm better than you!"

Not you personally, because I don't know you, but, as I said earlier, I grew up with penticostal "holy rollers!" I just can't do the "What do you have to lose?" thing without getting my dander up!

Sorry for the snark.

sorry to burst all of your bubbles at once but there is no god, no jesus, and no big deity up in the sky looking down. Religion in general is a farce that was invented to assume control over the masses. We are nothing more than a bunch of cells that have evolved enough to create neural pathways and stimuli to create thought and our existence.

For all we know god or the gods themselves could be nothing more than a few Aliens that visit from time to time and give us something to worry about to keep us in check.

Christianity is responsible for our entire race being set back 500 years scientifically.
I won't keep going but there has been countless (more) atrocities committed by organizations of faith than any one government in the world.

reply to post by Stryker Ops


True dat!

I don't belief in a bearded "guy in the sky" either. I think, in order to communicate easily, I refer to "god, but what I really mean is a higher mathematics, if you will. Something to aspire to. (I flunked pre-algerbra 3X")

God, for lack of a better name, is something that validates the extreem wrongness in the logic of "personal non-existance." Its more of a belief in continuity if the face of chaos than the belief in judgement for me. More or less the belief in energy transfer in a self perspective sort of way, I guess.

Originally posted by eaglewoman
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

You said: "You hope I will", meaning that I don't, yet. That is an "I'm better than you: assumption.

Sorry if I offended you, I was only "hoping" better things for you, not saying I was better.
I do not see anything wrong with hoping better for anyone.
I just wish everyone could experience what I have, many have, and many have not.
If you have not then "I hope you will" meaning "you don't yet"..
For those who believe it is no longer about believing but knowing.

Look, I understand that you feel the need to send the "message" and "save" everyone, but, that kind of thought pattern doesn't allow for free will, tolerance of religion or cohesion of society. It is an attitude that" we will eventually convert the wolrd". I don't see the future being successfully forged for humanity with that kind of attitude.

You're probably are unaware of your bias, but to me it screams "I'm better than you!"

Not you personally, because I don't know you, but, as I said earlier, I grew up with penticostal "holy rollers!" I just can't do the "What do you have to lose?" thing without getting my dander up!

Sorry for the snark.

Ultimately, that's what it comes down to, "What have you got to lose"?
Each person is different, and each can probably answer that differently.
I can send the message, but I can not save everyone.
I can not SAVE anyone.
Many people think that is what they are supposed to do, but that is not our job and we can't even if we want to. But we can send the message. Plant the seeds so to speak.

reply to post by Quadrivium


I guess suggesting that one should try believing something that they don't is kinda like being gay, its not a choice.

No matter hard one tries to change or suppress oneself, ultimately, you are who you are. Surely, you're God would see that on judgment day. Others aren't vacant or empty due to biblical differences. The human condition is global, not secular.

reply to post by rushunt

Your proposition is a very old one known as Pascal's Wager.

It works fine for people with no sense of honour or self-respect, who take God for a fool.

For some strange reason, everybody thinks they have the correct seeds that should be sown in people. Maybe it's because of the mass hysteria which induces the feeling of a collectively moving Holy Spirit? Maybe it's because of higher revelations which come from the unconscious? Whatever it is, it's just the unknown being exploited by religion.

Which is why I subscribe to none in particular, although they have some wise information that I listen to here and there. Interpreting the symbols and whatnot...

reply to post by rushunt


Dear Rushunt,
I think you needed to be a little bit more specific in your question. Are you asking us what have we got to lose in believing in a higher power/creator entity? Or are you asking us what have we got to lose in believing in God, which infers the Christian God.

In answer, I do believe, but I don't believe in any religion on the planet for specific reasons:
All of the main religions currently are hypocritical, have a basis in fear, control and throughout history have subjugated people to torture, war and depravity.

Now regarding a creator entity, yes I believe. I have nothing to lose in doing so, i'm very content that I do believe in "something", rather than antiquated books which could be full of nonsense for all anyone knows.

According to the Urantia papers (www.urantia.org...) everyone has got it totally wrong with regards religion, but totally right with regards a "creator". It's very interesting reading and I turn the question back to you: What have you got to lose in reading another take on Creation? =)

Unless I am deeply mistaken, I think that most people on the planet either believe in a religion, or believe in "something". It's just a question of semantics and personal choice what that "something" is.

Regards,
T

I've got an idea!
Why don't you try and ignore all the religious teaching you have recieved and look at the whole concept of religion with an objective mind, with common sense and all the scientific knowledge available to you.
If at the end you still want to belive in god, then fair enough, and god wont mind, because you've used the mind he gave you to use.
What have you got to lose?

If the bible's god is what it claims to be, then the OP's suggestion would be an incredible insult to it. "What have you got to lose?" That'd be like marrying someone just in case no one else ever proposes to you, and telling the idiot that this is why you're marrying them. Then again, if the bible's god could be fooled by such a craven maneuver, then the bible's god isn't what the bible makes it out to be.

American Xtians can't stop imposing their view of who and what God is on God itself. Like typical "Ugly Americans" they have no qualms about telling their god which passages in its book are literal and which passages they'll allow to be figurative. They've decided that their god's inerrant word is a science book and a history book, and to hell with whether it was ever intended to be viewed as either when men wrote it. The fact is that THEY have decided that this is what it is, and that's final. Classic Ugly American behavior.

And now they suggest that their fellow human beings pretend to believe in their god as a way of covering their bet on what lies ahead after the big transition. As if their god's requirement is a harness race on a Wednesday night at Vernon Downs. Classic American Xtian idiocy.

Whatever reality is, it simply is. Lawyers can't change it, and there's no such thing as insurance against it. A little honesty and legitimate concern is what it takes to even begin the effort to puzzle it out. People aren't generally motivated in these directions, and prefer to drop into the beaten path that fits their comfort best. After all, there's too much to deal with from day to day. What with school and the job and the pain in the ass of the wife/husband/dates and keeping a roof over one's head. Money doesn't grow on trees, and those goddamn no good for nothing Republicans/Democrats/Liberals/Rightwingers and all their bullsh*t are ruining the country for everyone. A person can only handle just so much.

Meanwhile, reality is what it is, and whatever sits beyond the veil waits patiently for each of us - like bacteria. In fact, exactly like bacteria. Just as inescapable and just as inevitable.

Originally posted by rushunt
Wow deep thought. Just feel that it is time to get right before its too late and if I have even sparked the curiousity at all I have contributed.

edit on 31-10-2010 by rushunt because: (no reason given)

You have contributed another spark to the light. I agree it is a good way to approach the nonbelievers my friend and it presents in such a way to help their insecure mindstates see that it wont hurt to try

reply to post by rushunt


Well, if you ask christians, you forgot the most important rule of all, bow down to god, and declare allegiance to only him. All of the non believers I know, live by one rule. I will sum it up as "Treat others how you would like to be treated, until they give you a good reason to do otherwise." Christians I know do not act like this, because they believe that they only have to answer to god, they declare allegiance to him, so all they have to do is ask forgiveness and they are a okay. Others feelings they stomp on mean nothing to them.

Oops my mistake, you did mention it slightly. the thing about belief, saying you believe is not belief. I am sure if there is a god, he will know the difference no?

I've got a belt too loose....well not really, but what do I got to lose? don't know. You probably don't have much brains to lose, but they might be too loose. You really lose credibility if you don't know the difference between lose, loose, there, their and they're, etc....

Jaden

so I mis typed a word and now that makes you question my cred? what does that say for you sir?

oh and by the way Fighting on the internet is like running in the special Olympics... Even if you win, you are still retarded

reply to post by rushunt


I'm not going to live my life a certain way, "just in case"... (not to mention, the majority of the world's population do not follow the Christian Bible, so if the Christian God condemns all non-believers, then He is sentencing the majority of the world to damnation...think on that one... )

If you look at most religions, most all are built upon the same golden rule..."Do unto others as you would have done unto you". When you boil it down, that's all religions in a nutshell.

I personally try and live my life according to this rule, and try to be a good person. Whether somebody else wants to call them "Christian", "Buddhist", etc. values is of no consequence to me.

If there does come a time of judgement, then I would simply hope that whatever being is doing the judging, simply considers my actions accordingly. If that isn't good enough for them...then the deity isn't really worthy of my respect and I'll happily take whatever's coming to me, rather than join in with a god who would turn down a good soul because of their own hypocritical vanity...

(and folks, please no personal attacks...lets keep it clean. Attacking someone's intelligence for spelling/grammar, for example. Remember we have members from all around the world, and of all ages, so such things are hardly indicative of intellect).