What have you got to loose, just answer this question...

I think this is in the right spot if not move as need be please.


Ok I have been to church/ and I have doubted GodJesus Devil,

I have Really sat and pondered this and being the shape that the world is in I have a challenge for all of you

Weather or not we came from apes, born from dust and ribs, had a huge explosion, or a bird craped on a rock and the sun hatched us we are people.

God is a bit of a prick, Ill admit it, But no more than some of the people in the world are and definately seems to me he is apropriate to the things happening at the moment.

So I issue all challengers of the bible and God this simple question...
If Jesus was just a wise man, whom someone wrote story's about and over glorified it much like a childs telephone game, Lets take a look at what it is saying. We should have some rules in place. Dont steal, Lie, screw your neighbors wife.. you get the picture this aint church. Now is that really that bad? I mean he isnt telling you to go to bed at 8:30 or eat your vegetables, just saying hey we need some rules here so things dont go to s))t as fast as it could if you do not do as I say.

Now If you beleive the bible, there is alot to it and it makes little sense to a simple person like me however the rules are still the same Dont Steal, Lie, screw the neighbors wife etc. A set of rules that if you follow will reward you with the key to the pearly gates.

Now If you die and you find that you beleived and it is just another Hoax, what have you really lost? you have lived a good life, left a descent name behind, probably surrounded yourself with people who care about you and you care about. If it is true Then you have done as you are told.

If you dont follow these rules (MANKINDS not the bibles although they are similar to me) , you die and find that it isnt true at all, then you have probably led a less than honorable life probably dont have many freinds, nobody wants anybody screwing their old lady, and thats that
But If you die and find it is true welp you know where this is going.

God even says if you screw this up and you realize before its to late and confess to me that you made an honest humanly mistake Its all good we can clean it up and go from here.

So I ask you. since most live by these somewhat simple rules anyways... what have you got to loose to just beleive have a good life worry alot less and then in the end you have everything to gain and nothing to loose///

Wow deep thought. Just feel that it is time to get right before its too late and if I have even sparked the curiousity at all I have contributed.

reply to post by rushunt


Well if your talking about Jesus as God then that will be controversial to say to many people. Many people view Jesus in different ways. Some worship, some believe he's a prophet, teacher and then some believe he's make believe. I'm reminded of the Atheist bus campaigns which said there's probably not a God. So stop worrying and live your life. I chose the later.

Originally posted by rushunt
So I ask you. since most live by these somewhat simple rules anyways... what have you got to loose to just beleive have a good life worry alot less and then in the end you have everything to gain and nothing to loose

Which is better: to believe and not live a good life, or to not believe and live a good life? The way I see it, the way I treat others and the way I live my life is ultimately more important than whether or not I believe in some deity that may or may not exist. If at the end of my life all of the good I have done and will do counts for nothing based on whether or not I professed belief during my existence, then frankly that deity doesn't deserve anything from me.

reply to post by rushunt

If you die and you find that you beleived and
it is just another Hoax, what have you really lost?

What a new and original idea. Surely no one has ever thought of this? Oh, wait...they have.

Wow deep thought.

It was deep when we were 15 years old and people tried this on us. Now, not so much.

It just doesn't work that way.

You can't say you "believe" because it's the safer bet or the easiest, or the most reassuring thought. You can't base you faith on "why not".

You either believe or you don't.

Your God will know the difference between someone playing it safe and someone that believes in him. He is supposed to be all knowing after all.

As for the "rules"...

You can follow all the rules and still be damned, because your God has infinite vanity.

The bible tells you that the ultimate sin is the denial of God. The only sin which is unforgivable.

This means that as an atheist I am doomed to burn for eternity while a rapist, murderer or genocidal world leader can be absolved by truly having repentance for his sins in his heart and accepting Jesus on his death bed, while I can live a life more pure, honest, unselfish and peaceful than Jesus himself and still be damned for not believing in an invisible, omnipotent spirit.

Apparently the only thing your God believes in is his own ego, a decidedly UN-divine quality if I do say so myself.

"Look, they are finally living in peace and harmony! Yes.. but they aren't giving me credit for it!! Burn them all!"

reply to post by rushunt



I don't think that the rules are simple. There are a lot of rules, yes?

If you still think, you are straying away from "God"...

If you think God is simple, God help you.

If you think God is complex, God help you.

If you think God is anything, God help you.

If God is your everything, you're on the right path.

God exists in creation and destruction. Right and wrong are just two cheeks on his bottom.

A person can live ethically without believing in any gods or prophets.

If you live a good life and there is a reward at the end of it, well yay. If you live a good life and there's no reward, so what? A lot of beings will be glad that you tried.

At the end of the day I want to be able to live with myself and I can do that if I behave properly.

It happens that I believe in reincarnation but I'm not banking on it. In some ways I'd prefer it if I just went out like a light. Either way, in the here and now I think it's important to make an effort - without believing in a vengeful god condemning me to eternal hell.

Well aren't you clever to come up with the "what have you got to loose question!"

I grew up in a half believing in reincarnation /half born again Penticostal family, and I've had this argument.

I need to point out that Jesus' gave us the "Beattitudes" while Moses gave us the Ten Commandments. You lumped the two together in you're argument. Also, you assume the Bible is incorrupt,and the "word of God." I don't think so.... There are many valid, as far as philosophy and civics, literary works and holy books with which to determine your personal direction. I reject the Bible as being necessarily true or the "word of god."

Sorry, God gave me a mind with which to determine how to proceed with my life. I tend not to agree with a virgin birth, a resurrection or a miraculous second comming. I think Armageddon is a self fullfilling prophecy made by crooks, liars, popes and politicians.

Christianity may be the only religion to claim "our way or the highway." It's coercive and sinister to ask people to give up their rational minds and become a religious robot just "incase" the miss the pearly gates and wind up in hell.

Lots of wise men and women have graced our planet and even been brutaly murdered for their beliefs, not many of them have claimed to be GOD. Oh wait, neither did JESUS!

Sorry if this comes accross snarky, but it's Halloween!

First of all, ... its spelled "lose" ... not "loose" .

A person can have a good life regardless of religion, ... there is nothing we can do here that will condemn you, ... or save you, .... all roads lead to rome, there are no consequences cept the ones we apply to ourselves.

there is no magic bearded man in the sky calling shots.

More " deep thoughts" from a 13 year old member, ....

GOD I miss ATS.

reply to post by bookreader


Lots of rules and lots of games. People will exploit you for playing by the "turn the other cheek rule". The trick is to figure out the game and what rules are your opponents usint and what are their strategies.

Unfortunatly, not everyone plays by the same rules you grew up with. You gotta be smart, you gotta be strong; you gotta stay together.....(isn't that a song?)

What if I spend my whole life believing in a Christian god and it turns out that the real god is actually Zeus, Thor or Ahura Mazda

Every day I spent believing in Christ would just make the real god madder and madder.

If your just asking "what have you got to lose from having morals" then the answer is nothing, but morals don't come from the bible, people had morals before the bible was written and presumably will continue to have them after it's forgotten about.

reply to post by rushunt


I do not believe in God the way religion portrays. I believe there is something more, a God if you will, only not a human-like God that thinks or feels. More of an energy or collective conscious if you know what I mean.
But for everyone else, something someone told me a long time ago that sticks with me even now:
"I would rather live my life believing in God and finding out there isn't one, than live my life believing there isn't one, and finding out there was".

...what have i got to lose by giving into religious thinking?... me...

...if you want to ponder something - try this one... its alleged that the biblical version of hell is hotter than the hottest hot and that hell is the opposite of heaven... so, how cold is heaven?...

21:28 “What do you think? A man had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ 21:29 The boy answered, ‘I will not.’ But later he had a change of heart and went. 21:30 The father went to the other son and said the same thing. This boy answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but did not go. 21:31 Which of the two did his father’s will?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, tax collectors and prostitutes will go ahead of you into the kingdom of God! 21:32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him. But the tax collectors and prostitutes believed him. Although you saw this, you did not later change your minds and believe him.”

i dissagree with alot of things in the bible because it doesnt make sense. So i will do what is logical to me and feel no shame in that my "yes" was yes and my "no" was no.

Well, for all of those who have trouble understanding why People believe:
www.youtube.com...

Jody foster was not talking about Christianity but the writers sure summed up what it is meant to be a believer.
Unless you have experienced what I have there is no way for you to know.
You might think that we have to give up our thoughts, our lives, and our free will but you are SOOOO wrong.

reply to post by Quadrivium


No, you do not. But are you asking us to?

Originally posted by eaglewoman
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

No, you do not. But are you asking us to?

Nope, That is part of your free will.
I can only HOPE that you would come to see, feel, and know the things that I have found.
I can not and will not make you.

reply to post by rushunt

Now is that really that bad?

No. However Jesus also tells people that lusting after a woman is the equivalent of adultery and that if your hand or eye causes you to sin you should cut it out/off. While Jesus is a massive improvement over the psychopathic genocidal murderer of the Old Testament he isn't perfect. While turning the other cheek sounds nice it isn't a good idea in most situations to just allow yourself to be abused.

But If you die and find it is true welp you know where this is going.

Its going to Pascal's Wager, one of the oldest arguments for belief in god in the book. However to believe in a deity simply to cover ones bases in the event of an afterlife is disingenuous. Also, it would only work if you believed in every deity and religion all at once.

what have you got to loose to just beleive have a good life worry alot less and then in the end you have everything to gain and nothing to loose

Well for one thing I would have my intellectual honesty to lose. How can I hope to be honest with myself and others if I coerce myself into believing something for which there is no evidence. I'm not going to force myself to start believing in Santa Claus again simply because it might get me better gifts if he turns out to be real. Also, you don't know for sure that we have nothing to lose if we decide to believe in a religion. What if I decide to believe in the Christian God again and it turns out that the Hindu pantheon are the real gods... they might not be happy about my disbelief in them and my decision to believe in Yahweh and Jesus instead.

reply to post by Quadrivium


That is irritating. Again, ae christians, you think you are different and more blessed, that I can't feel the same awe as you.

Grrrr!