Colombian shaman arrested in TX, charged with Ayahuasca possession

Originally posted by CeasarKhanTheGreat
reply to post by SevenThunders

 

What if I told you that doctors prescribe whatever this gentleman was carrying in 10 different kinds of pills made by major pharmaceutical companies? Most being more dangerous than the natural substance through additives and cost-cutting manufacturing.

edit on 30-10-2010 by CeasarKhanTheGreat because: (no reason given)

While I'm well aware of the corrupt influence big Pharma has on our government, the particular drug the witch doctor was arrested for is used primarily to get high under the guise of a religious experience (ie consort with demons), and is not intended for medicinal purposes.

reply to post by SevenThunders


LOL

While I respect your right to believe in whatever you may, I in turn do not allow any book, or anyone else for that matter 'tell me' my truths.

So please save your dogmatic condemnation and fear-mongering for people who DO rely on books and others to tell them about god and the nature of reality. I seek my own direct experiences and know what holds truth for me BASED upon my own direct experience.

If your belief system works for you, great---Then it is the right one for you, and I respect that. Extend myself and others the same courtesy of respecting OUR practices. Thanks.

Peace.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
If it is possible for those trained in government controlled education camps to remove their carefully inculcated biases for a moment, then you might ask yourself exactly what does this man and his pagan religion have to offer you? What are the accomplishments of his civilization compared to the one you live in now and are being programmed to destroy?

"Government controlled education camps" are one of the accomplishments of the civilization you elude to as superior... that's a contradiction to the very point you were trying to make.

As for ritualistic cannibalism and human sacrifice - look at the slavery and wholesale slaughter of indigenous populations in the name of industry. I do not think that contemporary Western 'civilization' has outgrown these inhuman practices at all.

reply to post by SevenThunders


I'm sure I will not change your mind, but I wanted to let you know that people with your mentality is what turned me away from the church. You really should try to find the REAL way and the light, not cling on to a religion out of fear and hatred.
Many people are exempt from certain laws that pertain to peyote here in the US because they use it in their church for religious reasons. Some people even say the ointment oil Jesus used to heal was made from hemp.

Why can't you be a shaman and believe in God? I was under the impression that this plant can bring you closer to God, and lead you to a very spiritual experience. I've always wanted to try it.

How can you morally and publicly judge this man and his faith while claiming to be a Christian? It seems to me to go the opposite direction of what Jesus taught. He taught love and understanding.

I think Jesus would have been cool with this shaman and his healing. But it really doesnt matter what you or I think about it , It is up to God. I really think he will get off on this due to religious ceremonies.
And not knowing the law isn't an excuse in the law's eyes, but It is very probably you have broken the law because you were not familiar with the laws. .. just some laws in Texas:

It is illegal to take more than three sips of beer at a time while standing.
The entire Encyclopedia Britannica is banned in Texas because it contains a formula for making beer at home.
When two trains meet each other at a railroad crossing, each shall come to a full stop, and neither shall proceed until the other has gone.
and in Austin
Wire cutters can not be carried in your pocket.

www.dumblaws.com...

This country is full of dumb laws that you or I may not know about.

reply to post by ghaleon12


you will find this is a drug, yes it is used in for health purposes (well it purges the body, makes you sick and causes diarrhoea) but is still a drug under the Convention on Psychotropic Substances act and is banned in a lot of countries,

In the US is as not illegal as long as it has not been brewed, but in European countries the import of the actual dried plant is illegal, same with in Australia.

Wee Mad

Originally posted by Calaquendi

"Government controlled education camps" are one of the accomplishments of the civilization you elude to as superior... that's a contradiction to the very point you were trying to make.

As for ritualistic cannibalism and human sacrifice - look at the slavery and wholesale slaughter of indigenous populations in the name of industry. I do not think that contemporary Western 'civilization' has outgrown these inhuman practices at all.

edit on 30-10-2010 by Calaquendi because: syntax

Actually the education camps came somewhat later and are largely responsible for the dumbing down of western civilization. In fact there is an inverse relationship in the US between federal spending on education and educational achievement. Puritan society had much higher literacy rates for example. But that is a side point.

I am not claiming that injustice or cruelty is gone, I'm merely commenting on the foolishness of the current brainwashing that elevates every third world mud culture. I'm all for trying to capture some of these culture's herbal lore, but I certainly won't elevate these drug orgies as some kind of religious high point.

I find it amusing that so many are bent out of shape simply because I told you that maybe taking brain altering chemicals, dancing around and worshipping demons may not be such a good idea. Try to learn some basic common sense and discernment here.

reply to post by SevenThunders

I find it amusing that so many are bent out of shape simply because I told you that maybe taking brain altering chemicals, dancing around and worshipping demons may not be such a good idea. Try to learn some basic common sense and discernment here.

This.

Where do you draw the line between 'herbal lore' and sorcery??

And you are the only one talking about demon worshiping - I don't see it, friend.

reply to post by Calaquendi


Mind altering drugs and communing with the spirits etc., these are common practices of shamanism, witchcraft and various forms of occultism. As I showed earlier all of these practices, which have been around for thousands of years and were around in Biblical times, are utterly condemned by the God of the Bible.

The spirit of antichrist is the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ and that he came in the flesh. All of these pagan religions either explicitly deny Jesus or deny his mission. Just look at the teachings of Carlos Castenada as a good example of these kinds of beliefs. (Though Carlos may merely have been a master storyteller and probably plagarized earlier philosophies.)

Thats how I know it's demonic. I once followed these teachings and saw their evil power, so I have personal experience to back up what I'm telling you now.

Originally posted by teleomorph
reply to post by SevenThunders

 

No, it is not dangerous, nor toxic. It is the most effective and sacred medicine of the entre Amazon and has been used spiritually for thousands of years. No demons involved here; just a real and widely loved healer and purveyor of a sacred lineage. Have you no concept of religious freedom?
You're level of your ignorance and the blackness of your heart are truly astonishing. Great job holding back the species and standing in the way of love, compassion and intelligence and staining the Christian faith with your demented hatred.

He broke a law/they should be more compassionate. It's going to take a lawyer and a courtroom to settle this one.
What does this mean "You're level of your ignorance and the blackness of your heart are truly astonishing."
Let us all remember our forgotten friends Proof Read and Spell Check.

reply to post by SevenThunders


I see you don't like freedom, Seven Thunders.

Just noting that.

I'll skip over the mindless ranting about liberals

The part about demons made me lol.

I wonder if they are liberal demons?




but yeah the law is the law; he shouldn't be in jail too long.

reply to post by SevenThunders


Fair enough on the line between herbal lore and sorcery - I hear you, but I am a spiritual seeker and have been studying shamanism and using these substances for some time, I have also tried it 'your' way and for the life of me can't get any 'response'...

If I had an epiphany just ONCE from reading the Bible or begging Jesus to come in to my life (as I have done MANY times) maybe I would be inclined to believe that it's more than just fear-mongering. But it hasn't happened to me...

On the other hand I have had deep and penetrating visions and revelations while using these plants and I cannot understand why the Biblical position is so harsh on them, when I cannot seem to 'get' what you all claim is there?

I can't find it in me to feel anything other than fear at all the hellfire rhetoric spewed by the Churches, and there's no love in fear like that. What kind of God scares people into following Him by hanging immortal torment over their heads?

reply to post by weemadmental


I agree that it is what would be considered a drug. Since this was in Texas, I'm more looking at US law. There is one church from Brazil in the USA that has won in court the right to use Ayahuasca for ceremonies.

Originally posted by teleomorph

Colombian shaman arrested in TX, charged with Ayahuasca possession

teleomorph.com

Help Free A Major Indigenous Leader Imprisoned in the U.S.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
digg.com

There is a way to free him if he is innocent. U2U me if you want to help according to religious freedom. I can not post that info here due to ATS rules.

reply to post by SevenThunders


If I want to hear someone preach I will go to church. Christianity has nothing to do with what happened to this shaman being arrested in Texas, so why are you trying to push your religious beliefs on other people?

Sad and ridiculous but he should have known better then to come to the American police state where you can be arrested for certain kinds of plants. Hope he gets free/

reply to post by Mr. D


There is discussion of available legal protections going on at the following link, would you mind posting your advice there?
Thank you so much!

teleomorph.com...

Originally posted by teleomorph
reply to post by Mr. D

 

There is discussion of available legal protections going on at the following link, would you mind posting your advice there?
Thank you so much!

teleomorph.com...

I already have however it doesn't show up on first site, it shows up on the comments link.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by SevenThunders

 

I see you don't like freedom, Seven Thunders.

Just noting that.

I'll skip over the mindless ranting about liberals

Jesus said,
"He who sins is a slave to sin, but he whom the Son sets free is free indeed." So you see what you've been programmed to view as a form of freedom (the unfettered consumption of mind altering drugs) , Jesus calls slavery. Drugs are a good metaphor for this principle since they often lead to physical and/or psychological addiction.

The consumer can not easily disengage from the harmful behavior. The lure of sin or wrongdoing in general has a similar hold. There are hordes of demons behind such activities, spurring souls on, in a headlong plunge to their destruction. So actually I support freedom, freedom from the temptations that destroy the soul. So please don't confuse political freedom with license and the libertine pursuits of personal pleasure.