Why we're pissed: A Reminder

The conversations we've been having for the last ten years haven't changed much. The proof is literally on video how vastly similar the Bush and Obama administrations really are.



What we're doing to the nation is a product of goldfish-like attention spans and memories.

We also refuse to address some of the crimes committed on Wall St. The admin have their own agenda on why they're not passing out the handcuffs, but we the people have a vested interest in fixing these problems.

I want everyone who opened this thread to watch this video in it's entirety:
The Problem is Fraud, it always has been.

We can't protect Wall St. folks. I'm a free-market guy. Very much so, and the free-market is supposed to come with a set of rules(It does have rules folks).

1. You're bound by your contracts. Government should be enforcing contracts, they are instead nullifying them to prevent the bailout bubble from popping in their faces, and keeping the pitchforks and torches away a little longer.

2. If you commit fraud, you should go to jail and pay restitution. Period.

3. There must be a level playing field. People argue that banks were deregulated, no they weren't, the government was taken over by banking interests long ago and they get to pick and choose which laws they follow and they have the blessing of government to do it. So we must, in essence, remove government from a position where it picks winners and losers and let the market do that, and refocus government to perform it's core Constitutional functions Enforce contracts, protect the rights of the individual, protect the nation and keep the peace. Those are regulations, and they are built into the fabric of the Constitution.

You don't need 6 million pages to enforce fraud, you need 6 million pages to hide it. Congress must also be held accountable for their role in this mess, and a few pairs of cuffs should be slapped on a few senators who wrote the favoritism into law in the first place. Being conservative or liberal, or a tea partier should not preclude one from addressing these issues.

We need to stop supporting the two party dictatorship. We need to stop demonizing each other. We need to address, in an adult fashion, the very serious problems we have.

A fraud has been committed that spans the whole of the world and you and I are on the hook for trillions as a result. Either through our homes or through our own government. Democrats, Republicans, Tea Partiers need to get some perspective here. We're getting screwed and hard.

We have policies from the Federal Government that "allows" them to kill us under SUSPICION of terrorism, a statist policy that both parties seem to support, but has wide opposition across political lines when it comes to what the people think. We have 2 wars going on, and I don't care what side of the aisle you're claiming to be on, they are a waste of lives, money, and time. We have a dependent society that is surely eating itself alive. We have an education system, that quite frankly, should be dissolved and localized, as the Federal Dept. of Edu. has failed in everything but spending money like it's going out of style. We have the government debasing currency, continuously, for 95+ years! And at the podium we have a two headed snake selling us the virtues of these failures over and over again.

America still hasn't woken up.

I think until people really realize that their is no difference in either of the major political parties it will continue.

Democrats-Scrambled eggs
Republicans-Over easy eggs
Socialists-Fried eggs
Libertarian- Hard boiled eggs

Either way they are both still nothing more then eggs. It is just a matter of how you like your eggs served.

Maybe a bad analogy but I hope it makes it easier to understand.

reply to post by Rhadamanthus


I do believe that when it comes to analogies and political parties, you were on the right track only I'd have compared them to the varying bowel movements brought on by the relative state of intestinal distress.

Regardless of the degree of firmness, it all reeks of the same thing!!!!!!

I agree whole heartedly!

What do you do though? The system has stacked the deck against us by creating a huge class that is making a profit off the system. Fixing it at this point would allow those parasitic entities to fail. Even if we drove every last productive legal citizen to demand change, and were given a fair, untampered, vote, we would find it a very close call as we grow more of a minority every day. We're victims of our own responsible nature. For going on four or five decades now, those who live off the system breed at twice the rate as the system rewards them for their negligence. The knowledge and lifestyle is handed down and repeated.

I would love to see not handcuffs being passed around, but public displays of offenders in stocks. The entire system has deviated so far from what it was intended to be in the beginning that it's become a complete fraud. Voting in this two party system will never fix anything. The only thing we're allowed to do is to choose seemingly the lesser of two evils, which actually isn't even true anymore as both sides have the same agenda but spin it differently. So we're left with our Constitutional Right to renege the legitimacy of the system being used today. But again, we're up against those who ARE the system, and those who are parasitic in nature to it.

Either way, new system or changes to the existing one, there has to be a clear plan of viable changes. Doing it in the current system would prove impossible though because of lobbying power - the root of the state of things today IMO. The changes that need to take place will be painful regardless. Like setting a broken bone. You know it's going to hurt like hell but you know it needs to be done. The question becomes how do you sell the idea to a country writhing in pain that sudden severe pain is in their best interest? Most will try to forestall. It's human nature. That's why doctors don't ask, they just do it. We have no outlet willing to play doctor with the economy because those charged with the task are benefiting immensely by not doing so.

So we're back to the question. What do you do? Everyone wants action, no one has a plan.

reply to post by GoalPoster


That's the smartest poop joke I've ever seen...


On Topic:

You're both very right. The underlying ingredients for a tyrannical government are there. We are handing our power, our very lives over to political elitists. I'm growing ever frustrated with the loss of perspective I'm seeing in people.

We are arguing now over who is more right in stepping on a woman, or who is entitled to intimidate voters because "the other guy does it too". Politics in this country is tantamount to the most capricious of childishness. It is shortsighted and selfish, and it is a result of putting the rights of the individual on the back burner.

reply to post by projectvxn


Where to peg down that magical moment when they stopped working for us and we suddenly found ourselves working for them? Some say at the advent of the Fed, and fiat currency. Others would point at the Reagan years and the gutting of our system through deregulation. Others, still, would, and could find a half a dozen other points of interest in our tour of the "How You Got Pwned" museum.

Truth be told... It doesn't matter, any more, when this dire crime happened. All that matters is that we, as a people, find a way to take back our dreams, our futures, and our fates.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that there has to be a free market - but one that is regulated and accountable. Without rules our financial systems have turned into glorified scams, Ponzi schemes, and wealth redistribution centers. A bizarre social club that reminds me too much of the book, and film called American Psycho where reality become so distorted that any sense or morality or responsibility is overpowered by the id to the point that the behavior of these people can't even be described, any longer as human.

To me the answer is simple. Checks and balances. We, in my opinion, are sorely lacking in this regard currently. The three branches are all bought, paid for, and working for their masters right now. Campaign reform is needed. A purging of the SCOTUS is probably in order - along with some revamped rules for nominating and vetting Justices, and Congress, oh Congress, needs to be put BACK under the control of the people.

Finding the first step towards reform is going to be very difficult. These travesties of our system are deeply rooted, funded from bottomless pockets, and we've all been conditioned to respect their authority and to fear their reprisals. But soon, I think, somebody will figure out a way to pry loose the fingers of that control. And when that day comes, VXN my friend, I think there will be many of us at the ready to pull those fingers back and to reclaim our birthrights!

Great thread! S&F

~Heff

Originally posted by Rhadamanthus
I think until people really realize that their is no difference in either of the major political parties it will continue.

Democrats-Scrambled eggs
Republicans-Over easy eggs
Socialists-Fried eggs
Libertarian- Hard boiled eggs

Either way they are both still nothing more then eggs. It is just a matter of how you like your eggs served.

Maybe a bad analogy but I hope it makes it easier to understand.

Well then, where's the beef in all of it? If you're sick of the eggs in the major political movements where do you see the future going? I'd be interested in seeing exactly how you think we, the peoples of the Western World should get away from our major political theories.

Right on brother. I couldn't agree more with the OP.
Is there anything I can do to change it? Not really.
But, if an opportunity presents itself to fix things - you can bet I'll be there.

Wall Street has never been about free market principles. It's primary business it the buying and selling of stock, or shares in corporations. Corporations are antithetical to free markets. Corporations are chartered fictions granted existence by a governing authority, as opposed to sole proprietorship's or businesses that do not exist by permission of any government, but exist because some one, or even a group of people placed their own reputation on the line to build that business. Corporations, on the other hand, are legally invented fictions for the purpose of limited liability. The whole intent of a corporation is to separate the liability that comes with business from the actual people who own the business thus creating a scenario where those who profit from the business do not hold any responsibility for any liability the company incurs.

Any chartered corporation, and I mean any, can have their charter revoked by the very same governing authority that granted that charter to begin with. While state governments commonly use charter revocation laws to go after small to mid-size businesses, it is virtually unheard of for any state that has actually granted a multinational corporation a charter to revoke that charter regardless of the malfeasance that multinational corporation might have committed. All the while the corporate news media reports to Americans about the "free market system" of which they live, the public schools, also incorporated, teach our children how we live in a "free market system", our universities teach this, in fact, Paul Krugman is a professor of economics at Princeton University! We have scads of schools of economics, all colluding to convince the public that the very closed, and decidedly regulated market of which we operate in is really just a "free market".

Licensing schemes are imposed upon the public from the local governments who insist that a license to business is necessary, but if any fool willing enough to agree to such a licensing scheme goes along with this fraud, the very first thing their local government will do is inform them they must first go to the IRS and apply for a tax ID number. More collusion, between local governments and a federal administrative agency, all intended to insure that the average Joe with an American dream of owning his, or her own business applies for an income tax liability before a single damn dime was made.

I have seen starving artist who want to publish their own comic books, who have invested their entire life savings in a sketchy venture, go and apply for a tax ID number and business license. For a comic book! Thank God, we have governments protecting us from independent comic book publishers. Thank God we have government protecting the consumer from booksellers, and shoe repairmen, and tailors, and numerous other innocuous businesses. Everyone knows how dangerous a book store can be.

You think this is just a problem with Wall Street? This is a problem endemic of this entire nation, and the cancer has spread to every Main Street in every town, city, and metropolis. Why shouldn't the banks play their games of fraud when we the people foolishly agree to be licensed for something that is a fundamental right to do. People have the unalienable right to survive! People have the unalienable right to benefit from the fruits of their labor. People have the right to live, and yet, we the people go and apply for licenses to live, and if we don't go into business for ourselves, we, without question sign government contracts with employers authorizing them to act as a fiat tax collector on our income, taking that tax out before we even see our first dime! With a nation filled with those kind of fools, who can really blame bankers and stock brokers for doing what comes naturally to thieves among a den of fools? Have you never heard a fool and his money are soon parted? Look how easily we part with ours?

You would think that people would be angry enough to just stop doing business with banks, but do they? No, of course not, and watch several come into this thread and explain to me why they cannot. They cannot because the system isn't set up that way. The closed system of which they revile is not set up to allow them to refuse to contract with banks.

All closed systems tend towards entropy, but that is just too subtle of a fact to really sink in for a nation of fools. Freedom was a noble ideal our flawed Founding Fathers had, and we, this ship of fools, this confederacy of dunces, we the people today are so much more sophisticated than our noble, but naive Founding Fathers. They were naive fools, who also fell prey to bankers and the notion of regulated markets and corporate charters, but they were naive, we...we the people today...we are sophisticated fools. Don't let me tell any fool today what is wrong with the system, because we are sophisticated fools.

reply to post by pirhanna


We need to stop letting the media ask the questions and start showing up to our elected representatives offices and asking questions ourselves. I'm a tea partier, but I will tell you this, if the promises aren't kept, I won't be very forgiving, I'm sick of the BS. Government needs to be cut down to size, everything from the military budget to our domestic spending needs to be on the chopping block. We need to solve the issue at the border without calling each other racist or whatever.

We need to demand that law enforcement enforce the law for everyone under their jurisdiction, not just the little people. The ruling class and the super rich shouldn't be able to avoid prosecution under the black letter of the law because they are who they are. We need to get pissed and take to the streets together.

I don't buy this BS that somehow this country is so diametrically opposed to it's other half, that we can't come to an agreement.

A year ago I wrote a thread called the "Declaration of Independence 2009". This thread went pretty far for a little while as far as lighting a fire under people's butts. This thread made it far enough for Progressive talk radio host Peter B. Collins to call me at home and interview me because he agreed with nearly everything I wrote(we parted ways on the 2nd amendment). The interview is posted in here(Be kind to me I don't do a lot of media appearances).

I'm a Constitutionalist Libertarian and He's a Progressive. Look at how much we agree on.

Now lets go do something about it before we all get buried by the ruling class.

reply to post by projectvxn


Star&Flag

I pulled this off one of my posts to another topic... it seems to fit here too ( and added).
I don't subscribe to all that Lincoln did or said, but this always strikes me.

The US is in bad need of remembering Lincoln's words in the Gettysburg Address-
"government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Are those in government my people? Hell, no. Are they yours?

Meanwhile, we have politicians who remain in office for a lifetime. Term limits, anyone?
Since when did "holding Congressional office" become a career? A job choice?

I think anyone who votes for any incumbent in office, no matter what the Party affiliation, is to be responsible for the mess the country is in, henceforth.

We need people from our towns, people who will go to DC, fix crap, and then go home. We need people who
know how to run businesses, how to delegate tasks, how to balance ledgers, how to ignore ass-kissers (lobbyists), who have integrity and who don't really want to be there.

Most people know of upstanding people (or at least one person) who would be a great asset to Congress. Now would be the time for everyone to get on them to run, vote them in, and fix the government, let them come home, and on to the next round of good citizens. Less corruption will be able to happen if people rotate in and out.

The really honest genius at the local credit union. They refused the bailout funds there.
Your doctor, who really has some great ideas and intelligence. (And who isn't making squat anymore, it mostly goes to the corporation that owns him and the hospital.)
The lady who runs the local volunteers for the area and does a darn good job with a pittance of money.
That excellent civics teacher at the high school.
Etc...

Those and others like them are my people.

Will this ever happen? No.
Would DC allow this to happen? No.

I am a dreamer.... I'm not the only one.


Now, we have S. 3081 in judiciary. A bipartisan effort.

Now we have the UN with Agenda 21.

Now we have our ally Israel sounding dangerously undemocratic with their Jewish loyalty pledge.

Now we have our Congressmen all making profits this year with their investments, while we, the people, barely hang on to our homes (if not lose them),
barely hang on to our jobs, (if not lose them)
barely hang on to our health (if not lose it)...

So when do We, the people finally decide enough is enough at the polls?

reply to post by justadood


/facepalm

Everyone put your blinders on for a while and forget labels. Labeling doesn't change anything, it just further categorizes and draws comparisons. It's unnecessary and distracts from the issues.

Wrong is wrong no matter who does it.

The bailouts were wrong, although you could argue that since all our taxes goes to paying the Fed back that money never really flowed to the banks, it was just an accounting offset. Which it really was. Pure and simple fraudulent manipulation of accounting records because the actual numbers showed them insolvent.

But hey, it's not a crime if those making and enforcing the laws say it's okay. Who cares if there's a conflict of interests between the Fed and the governing body. They'll self police because they're upstanding citizens right?

It's not JUST that we're diametrically opposed to the relatively small group this system actually works for, it's just a fact. A small hurdle as the numbers are hugely in our favor, but a hurdle nonetheless. One that gets worse with every day that passes as more and more come to rely on government assistance.

We as a society if given the opportunity to make sweeping changes beyond the scope of our limited powers we hold today, could come to a general consensus on the big issues. We're just not afforded these changes in the system as it stands. The fail safes we set in place to keep fraudulent policy from being implemented has turned against the people. There are too many bought politicians to ever, and I mean EVER get enough of them out to reverse our heading. It would take a true grass roots movement, which I'm sad to say the Tea Party was hijacked from that path IMO.

We're left with two paths - renege what's in place, or getting EVERYONE to claim certain legislation as illegitimate regardless of personal consequences and not let them arrest 5 people and the majority fall back in line.

reply to post by PayMeh

We're left with two paths - renege what's in place, or getting EVERYONE to claim certain legislation as illegitimate regardless of personal consequences and not let them arrest 5 people and the majority fall back in line.

It doesn't take any majority to fall into line in order for bogus legislation to be rejected as illegitimate. The 18th Amendment was not repealed, and repealed only 14 years after it was passed, because some majority fell into line with pitchforks and flames, it was repealed because juries refused to convict those prosecuted for the "crime" of drinking alcohol. But those were more naive times, not nearly as sophisticated as the times are today.

Today, it is commonly said that a good prosecutor could get a Grand Jury to indict a ham sandwich. That's how much respect lawyers and legislatures have for we the people, they honestly believe we would, if serving on a Grand Jury, indict a ham sandwich if a silver tongued prosecutor convinced us to do so, and you know what, we the people have indicted plenty of people, and not just indicted, we the people have convicted plenty of people who sit in prisons today not because they actually harmed someone, but because they had the temerity to play in the black market. Hell, we the people put Martha Stewart in jail, for Christs Sakes! We the people put her in jail, not for "insider trading", because that is not what she was charged with, she was charged with perjury, and obstruction of justice. Justice? The same justice department that won't do a damn thing now, insisted Martha Stewart belonged in prison just because some body gave her some information, (incorrect information, by the way), and she acted to protect her wealth based upon that information, and then when questioned got scared and lied, and we the people in our sophisticated, we'll indict a ham sandwich, knowledge, put that woman in jail.

If we the people are so lame that we will indict a ham sandwich, you can forget about any majority falling in line.

I agree JP. What I was meaning was that even if they arrest a few, the rest would have to stay the course and not submit out of fear is all.

And you're right, these are far different times. Everyone has been conditioned to believe they have a duty to impose themselves into everyone's lives. I blame reality TV in large part for that. People just don't see things in terms or right and wrong anymore. If a law is worded badly and someone charged frivolously outside what the law was designed to enforce, people these days will convict the poor man in a heartbeat.

I like to believe that most personality types can be directly compared to characters from The Andy Griffith Show. Every different social type balanced the others out. What I see more and more in positions of power are the Barney Fifes and fill in State Inspectors of the world.

reply to post by ProjectJimmy


I don't think anything is wrong with the theories themselves. The problem is the corruption of the people that are in office. We keep electing people that we believe will make the right choices but time and time again they bow down to the corruption and the cycle starts all over again. It is a never ending cycle of madness. What will it take to end it? I don't know but we need to figure it out.

reply to post by projectvxn



awesome thread.

with your permission i would like to copy and paste this to my facebook page.

For me personally, I have watched this same train pull into the same station for the past 30 years, and only a few has a ticket to ride. Only now, I watch this same train and noticed it has picked up speed, and fewer yet has a ticket to ride. My dream is to see this train jump track ,crash and burn. No ticket needed .

Originally posted by Rhadamanthus
I think until people really realize that their is no difference in either of the major political parties it will continue.

Democrats-Scrambled eggs
Republicans-Over easy eggs
Socialists-Fried eggs
Libertarian- Hard boiled eggs

Either way they are both still nothing more then eggs. It is just a matter of how you like your eggs served.

Maybe a bad analogy but I hope it makes it easier to understand.

Great analogy..but pretty much all bad eggs now days.