'Prophecies' of a (Necessarily) Silent Messiah

Does anyone else find it strange that all of the Jewish Prophecies of the arrival of the messiah, and all of the Christian Prophecies of the return of Jesus ‘on a white horse out of the sky’, are Prophecies of a messiah who is, for all practical purposes, absolutely silent; a messiah who, for all practical purposes, has never had an original idea in his entire life?

Maybe I am missing something here. But, after looking at this situation for more than 35 years, and after having read many of the things that this messiah is supposed to do, I have yet to read anything in particular that this messiah is supposed to say—other than, perhaps, what has already been specifically written for him to say. In other words, it seems quite obvious to me that this messiah has already had his script written for him by either the Jewish or the Christian theologians; and that any messiah who goes ‘off script’ is, of course, not any messiah in the first place.

Now, the reason for this should be obvious: That is the job of the Jewish and Christian theologians in the first place: knowing what the messiah will say when he arrives or returns. That, after all, is why they have been paid so many trillions of dollars over the past 2500 years or so: because what they are claiming is a Knowledge of Truth fully equivalent to the Knowledge of the messiah. So, in reality, this messiah can never say anything other than what has already been said by either the Jewish or the Christian theologians…

Which, of course, means that there is no real need for the messiah to arrive or return in the first place; since, allegedly, the Jewish and Christian theologians already know what he is going to say; which is why there are no Prophecies of the messiah saying anything different than what these religious ‘authorities’ are saying in the first place.

And this prompts me to make the following suggestion:

If the Jewish messiah were to arrive tomorrow—or, even if Jesus were to return, literally, on a white horse out of the sky tomorrow—it would make absolutely NO difference whatsoever to this civilization.

Why not?

Because, eventually, after getting off his white horse or whatever, he would actually have to SAY something.

And, at that point, the fox would be amongst the chickens.

What if this messiah were to contradict even one of the fundamental doctrines of either Judaism or Christianity—or even one of the fundamental beliefs of the Jews or the Christians?

What if he were to say that he had been here before--more than once?

What if he were to affirm that Mohammed was a prophet, for example?

What if he were to contradict even one of the ‘universally-recognized-as-the-Absolute-and-undeniable-Truth’ interpretations of the Revelation of John vomited out by tens of thousands of televangelists, Ph.D. theologians, or ‘do-it-yourself’ theologians?

What if he were to say something that was, in the least degree, ‘off script’ about either the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Gospel of Thomas, the Treatise On Resurrection, the Holocaust, the scientific method, the Eastern religions, Greek mythology, or the whole subject of consciousness (for example, the findings of the Jungian analysts); things which the Jewish or Christian theologians do not understand because they are completely unacquainted with that language?

The conclusion would be both obvious and necessary:

Even riding a white horse out of the sky is not sufficient proof that one is the messiah.

In fact, any messiah who contradicts even so much as one of either the fundamental doctrines or beliefs of the Jews or the Christians—even a messiah who arrives on a white horse out of the sky—is, in fact, nothing but a false messiah; riding a white horse out of the sky being merely another “lying wonder” to convince “even the elect”.

In other words, even if the messiah were to return on a white horse out of the sky—but then deny or contradict anything said by either the Jewish or the Christian theologians—those religious ‘authorities’ would COLLECTIVELY decide to wait for the NEXT messiah arriving ‘on a white horse out of the sky’ who did NOT contradict anything said by either the Jewish or the Christian theologians.

Michael

You are speaking of "Self Fulfilling Prophesy",as in,it is written,therefore it shall be done.

It's not prophesy,....

The supposed prophet to come also negates any prophets between the time of it's writing,and the time the "True One " ,is supposedly going to come.

Kind of a...Never mind,he's a crazy old man.....kinda thing.

Religious texts are personal things,as are beliefs.

now, now.....actually if the messiah or appointed one arrives.....twill be history....Jesus is the only one to promise to return for us, that will be historical goodness. what He needs to say is not critical, He just needs to show....and then something HUGE will happen.....guess what that is!! every knee !! on the planet

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
You are speaking of "Self Fulfilling Prophesy",as in,it is written,therefore it shall be done.

It's not prophesy,....

So it would almost be guaranteed that the "Messiah" would have self-fulfilled one or more prophecies.
What if the "Messiah" is locked up in a white-padded room wearing a straight-jacket?
In that case, we'll only know for sure who is who if the "Messiah" suddenly comes floating down from the sky or something bizarre like that, but even then we wouldn't ever really know.

what if the return of the messiah means us never having to live in this physical dimension anymore? What is the true messiah really is going to change everything, just by showing up, and nothing will need to be said, because language and the way we communicate will instantly be changed, and we'll be able to speak from our hearts again because the messiah will have helped us to wake up and remember who we all are and were. Kinda like that spiritual rebirth you were talking about in your other thread (that was you, wasn't it?).

When the true messiah comes (if such a person does exist) then every family member of the messiah will know (and that should be everyone on planet earth, minus the cyborgs and evil aliens).

reply to post by Michael Cecil


I think you need to read more than Jewish or Christian ancient spiritual texts. When taken on the whole through many of the world religions, they in fact say all the same things. Although religious leaders tend to perform rituals and mandate you perform them as well. There is actually scripture in the bible that says when Jesus descends from heaven that most of the world will reject him. So this might be proof of your statements. That whatever the messiah states will cause people to rebel against him and the angels. And you are right it will probably be many of the Christians that reject God as a false God because much of what is written in the bible has been twisted into some material world reading, instead of a spiritual world reading that I believe it was intended.

I don't think we will have to worry about any allegory about Jesus on a white horse, you beat it to death in your OP. Nowhere does it say that everyone has to know everything before it can happen. These prophecies were written by men of limited vision, they could only try to depict what they thought they saw. You might want to remember that the Son of God is more than just a character in a story, anywhere you find a conflict between the Bible and the Christ, the Christ supersedes the book.

If one were to arrive from the clouds riding a white horse one wouldn't need to say much.

The heavenly cortege never before witnessed by human eyes would speak for itself, no?

Besides, I don't think the prophesies say he will be doing much teaching next time around. Pragmatically, perhaps if one were to look at it that way. He would be looking to crown himself king after being so thoroughly disrespected the first time. No, I don't think he will feel hollow words to confirm the bible will be in order.

Just my thoughts though.

So the story goes..

reply to post by Michael Cecil Hello Michael, hope you are keeping well. Im sort of hoping that the so called return of the son of God is a metaphor for a human spiritual revolution. I wish we'd stop trying to find answers outside of ourselves and take responsibility for our actions. Should the return on a white horse happen however, there are those who will say he's from The Pleiades. By the way, please never stop posting, your threads are intelligent and well written.

Originally posted by CeasarKhanTheGreat
If one were to arrive from the clouds riding a white horse one wouldn't need to say much.

The heavenly cortege never before witnessed by human eyes would speak for itself, no?

No, it would not "speak for itself".

The Jewish and Christian religious 'authorities' would not allow it to "speak for itself", just as they have not allowed the original Revelations to "speak for themselves", or the Dead Sea Scrolls to "speak for themselves", or the Nag Hammadi Codices to "speak for themselves".

They would be questioning whether it was merely a "lying wonder". They would be grilling that person who rode a white horse out of the sky very closely as to what EXACTLY he was going to say. They would demand to be given prior EDITORIAL CONTROL over anything that he was going to say, so as to not threaten either their power or their wealth. And the media would agree NOT to cover the event at all UNLESS he agreed to the demand of the religious 'authorities'.

I am talking about the real world here; not some fantasyland created out of magical 'thinking'.

Clearly, you do not understand how much of a scam the Jewish and Christian religious 'authorities' are pushing.

Were the messiah to arrive or return, who would even want to listen to them anymore?

Who would buy their books and video tapes?

How would they make their money to pay for their health insurance?

And, even worse, what would they do with all of their TIME?

And, certainly, these are things that the MEDIA would take into consideration in deciding whether or not to broadcast or cover the return of Jesus on a white horse out of the sky.

Who knows?

Maybe it has already happened someplace, and the media decided NOT to cover it at all because of the economic threat it would pose to the Jewish and Christian religious establishments.

Michael

Originally posted by xiphias
So it would almost be guaranteed that the "Messiah" would have self-fulfilled one or more prophecies.
What if the "Messiah" is locked up in a white-padded room wearing a straight-jacket?
In that case, we'll only know for sure who is who if the "Messiah" suddenly comes floating down from the sky or something bizarre like that, but even then we wouldn't ever really know.

But that is the PLAN.

The Jewish, Christian and Muslim religious 'authorities' want to maintain their power and their wealth FOREVER.

EVEN in the event that the messiah or the mahdi returns.

They don't want you EVER to know that there is any authority higher than their 'authority'.

All they want is your MONEY.

And for you to submit to their POWER

In saecula saeculorem, Amen.

Michael

reply to post by Michael Cecil


I get what you're saying. But I would think someone as knowledgeable of human nature as a messiah would know how to navigate the treacherous waters of media misrepresenting him and his message, religious authorities doubting his divinity because of their narrow reading of scripture, or even those who would want to silence such a person to control wealth and maintain power. I would certainly hope if Jesus returned he wouldn't author a self-help book or direct an inspirational videotape. Could you really see him begging the local news station for 15 minutes of coverage? Or converting people to a religion he didn't create, one that masses of people are waking up to it's lies and doctrines of control?

People who just talk always want to sell you something you would be better without. A do me a favor, don't do me no favors kind of thing. It's all scheming. Bad intentions. We all know that actions speak louder than words. Certainly a Jesus reinvented and born to a new world wouldn't assume people are stupid and still need to be preached to or sold.

Perhaps a messiah of a darker more wicked essence is needed to make changes in such a sinful and conniving world as you describe. I don't think the systems of power and control in this world are as absolute as you seem to think. Like some jerks with a bible and a radio station could stop a man with divine authority. Please.

Originally posted by thedoctorswife
reply to post by Michael Cecil

 

Hello Michael, hope you are keeping well. Im sort of hoping that the so called return of the son of God is a metaphor for a human spiritual revolution.

Well, of course.

But there are tens and hundreds of thousands of "gate-keepers" as they are referred to in The Matrix: media officials who will not allow the publication of any Truth or truth which threatens TPTB; religious 'authorities' who have NO authority at all because they have NO Knowledge of Truth; but who are prepared to exterminate this ENTIRE civilization to maintain their wealth and power; and politicians who do their bidding.

By the way, please never stop posting, your threads are intelligent and well written.

I really do appreciate this.

Generally, my writings--I've been doing this for 34 years--are considered to be nothing more than absolutely INCONTROVERTIBLE evidence of 'mental illness'.

Michael

I think you fail to understand an important fact regarding Christ.
"And the WORD became flesh".
Jesus was the original word. If what the Bible says is true, then the prophets were inspired/communicated to write the scriptures by God/Holy Spirit. The 'Word" of God. I John 5:7 tells us " For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one". Most have a misconception that Christ all of a sudden just magically appeared on the scene in a very brief period in our history. Once you come to an understanding that Christ was/is God incanate, its easier to understand.

Originally posted by CeasarKhanTheGreat
reply to post by Michael Cecil

I get what you're saying. But I would think someone as knowledgeable of human nature as a messiah would know how to navigate the treacherous waters of media misrepresenting him and his message,

How, exactly?

I want details.

And why do you make such an assumption?

Could you really see him begging the local news station for 15 minutes of coverage?

Not a snowflake's chance in hell.

Any local news station would instantly recognize the threat such information would pose to the multi-billion or trillion dollar interests of Judaeo-Christianity, Inc.

I don't think the systems of power and control in this world are as absolute as you seem to think.

This is not something that I "seem to think".

Just like I do not "seem to think" that the "resurrection" is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

There is a difference between Knowledge and belief, or 'seeming to think'.

There is a difference between the map and the actual territory that the map is intended to describe.

Those who have not actually seen the territory do not really have any idea whatsoever of what the map is representing.

Like some jerks with a bible and a radio station could stop a man with divine authority. Please.

WHY NOT?

Even after some 32 years at this, I still have been unable to find ANY media willing to publish one single Truth: that the Doctrine of "resurrection" is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

Why should it be any different with any other Truth?

Michael

My friend,

I love where you are going with this thread. Your point is well presented and factual. To make matters worse, those in power have already successfully destroyed any real hope in a messiah. If a Messiah were to show up, the people are already prepared to stone him to death. Many simply would reject the message he brought.

For example, the lessons of Jesus Christ are simple to understand parables. They are the bedrock of spiritual truth that transcends culture and tradition, yet even those who profess to be followers of Christ, fail to live by his simple lessons. Instead, they deify the man and twist his lessons into reasons to carry out acts totally contradictory to his lifes work.

Any messiah figure would certainly have his hands full trying to convince Man to let go for the hatred that has been carefully bred into them. He would have to have a charisma about him that would make even the staunchest atheist look within and find the Kingdom of God at his very own center.

Would any man be willing to make such sacrifices as would be expected of him as a messiah? People would dissect his life looking for every flaw. You see, Jesus being free of sin is another twist to his story. Being free of sin has been taught to mean utterly pure and devoid of natural tendencies. All it really meant was being able to love unconditionally, all man. To be able to see the weaknesses which makes them do that which they do, and not do the same. Being free of sin does not mean you do not lead a life of enjoyment. So much guilt has been put on natural life, that a messiah would most likely be dead of depression before he ever had the chance to minister to the masses.

That is, unless he has an insurmountable amount of inner fortitude. Perhaps, there is hope. He'd be wise to test the waters carefully, and bring his ministry one person at a time.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Michael Cecil
Says who??? My hamster jim could be better at diagnosing mental illness than the establishment doctors. Anyway keep well.

Originally posted by IAMIAM
My friend,

I love where you are going with this thread. Your point is well presented and factual. To make matters worse, those in power have already successfully destroyed any real hope in a messiah.

But do you see how many millions upon millions of dollars that these religious 'authorities' have made under the PRETENSE of eagerly anticipating the arrival of the messiah?

Just look at the tens or hundreds of thousands of video-tapes that the Jack Van Impe Ministries have sold over the last 50 years or so.

Writing books and producing video tape 'explanations' of the Revelation of John is a cottage industry for the Christian religious 'authorities', who, of course, are accompanied by any number of 'do-it-yourself' 'explainers' of the Revelation of John...

More comments by three year olds on time symmetrical quantum mechanics.

And, at the same time, millions of people eagerly awaiting his arrival are FULLY prepared to incite a NUCLEAR war in the Middle East in order to 'hasten' his arrival...

The word for which I would probably be prevented from saying by the "T & C".

Michael

reply to post by Michael Cecil


A messiah by nature would be preordained to succeed. Failure is not an option. If you assume that Jesus Christ failed in his mission on earth by being crucified you are wrong. He successfully made himself the most popular figure in all of history. It was the false prophets, as one could call them, that repeatedly failed because their teachings were not based in truth , 1, and 2, because they were not perfect. You want to juggle ideologies, but ideologies cannot change the world. People change the world. Men lead other men. Soldiers fight for a leader and not a piece of text.

The fact that this world is based on the precepts of force, power, and control will probably never change. Nature has decreed this. It's not the ultra machinations of evil power mongers out to whip the people. All those absolutes you let stifle your creative thought are symbolic of higher processes that don't recognize the tragedies of day to day human life. The things in this world that manipulate, lie, and cause suffering represent their own eternal truths. You can't just have your one-sided interpretation and say that alone is truth. In that way you are much like the diabolical religious persecutors you have dreamed up in your head. It's like you are a prisoner in a dungeon being tortured by men dressed as the pope and not realizing the door to your cell is wide open and you can walk out at any time. Then of course you would have to take responsibility for yourself and your free mind, but for a lot of people that is the greater torture. Many people like their chains and the whips of their overseers, be they people, ideas, or one-sided truths.

Everything created by nature has it's own truth and it's own purpose. Don't let the dilemmas blind you.