It's impossible

(wiki) •Cognitive dissonance - An uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously.

For most a comfy lie is preferable to a harsh truth. Especially one that demands you redefine your world view. Most are happy to believe something because they've been told it, especially by
"an authority figure". Not because they've done any homework of their own.

I've experienced it many times since I started paying attention to the opera going on around us. So I can imagine how fired-up you guys got defending your ideas. Good thing you walked away or I'm sure the paper would read "Conspiracy Theorist Starts Bar Brawl" not "Disagreement Starts Bar Brawl".

Okay so maybe they're lame headlines, but you get my point

Originally posted by Alfie1

WTC7 looked nothing like a controlled demolition.

Point proven.

The answer is patience Realeyes. I recently moved back to my old home town after 15+ years away and was hanging out with some old friends. The nickname they gave me way back was "weird". Without any prompting, one friend said "here;s the guy we all thought was wierd, he was always telling us stuff that none of us believed. The thing is, it's turned out over the years that he;s been right".
That was mostly in reference to what I thought of the Reagan/Bush administrations and what the NWO was up to. They didn't believe me when I told them they were shipping our industries off to China and Mexico, or that the government was spying on all of us etc. I'm no prophet, I just read the writing on the wall. Those who know history can see when cycles are being repeated.
Stick with your guns and be patient. Not everyone takes the time to deeply reflect on current events and their greater meaning. People have had a lifetime of brainwashing to overcome so don't be condescending or impatient.
If they seek the truth they will come around eventually, or we will.

reply to post by Asktheanimals



When are these debunkers going too ask themselves any real questions about the day, instead of trolling like everything just happened, and there is nothing to see...and when are they going to offer any proof towards there arguments.

At least they make the threads more seen, and certainly help convince people they are crazy by the statements they make...that is one positive aspect...and they expose the incredible, well-designed Matrix provided for them that makes an impossible event seem,, well possible....

I do know buildings do not collapse when made from steel, unless strategically planned out, and i know that floors and steel actually cannot disintegrate themselves while not being touched from above...and that super fine powder does not spread for 100's of square miles due to gravity's all DESTROYING POWER...

I invite them to show me how unchecked fires and miniscule damage causes another building to fall down and why they do not care that there is no pictures of a jet flying into a ridiculously difficult area.

But after saying all that, i realize they are here for enjoyment, and have no honor...and none of them believe in ANYTHING that is not told to them...by there government gods. LOL@ not being religious.

reply to post by realeyes
Actually, it's not impossible! I have personally changed about 1000 peoples minds on the matter, including another yesterday. If you wish to have some suggestions on how to go about this Realeyes, feel free to PM me and I will help you out.

reply to post by GrinchNoMore


When will the debunkers stop? When the Pentagon quits paying them. $40 billion/yr for cyberwarfare and some of it gets spent right here on ATS.. Some of us should be flattered.
Of course, that's just another Conspiracy theory; like the one the 9/11 Commission came up with.
Then again there are probably some die hard OS fanatics that can't quit the official meme - doing so would endanger their minds to God-knows-what. Once the official truth dies you have to wonder about everything they ever told you and that is not a small job or for the weak of heart.
(don't bother replying to this, some of you. I'm not going to bother to read them but feel free anyway........
)

My take on this is that the OS and CD are distractions to mask a third hypothesis which is the whole thing was an insurance scam. My late father always told me "if you can't understand why something was done, follow the money." Larry Silverstein is the one to follow, IMHO.

reply to post by Alfie1


Listen, it takes more guts to go against what we are being told by the mass media...So if it seems as if we are on a horse, we deserve to be there... Also please show me a video to compare this to a fire that made this collapse...

You probably think Lee Harvey Oswald shot him....

Z

Originally posted by psikeyhackr

Why doesn't Richard Gage and his buddies talk about the distribution of steel in the towers? I have been to one of his dog and pony shows. Gage is a propagandist. He is not trying to get people to COMPREHEND this scientifically.

So as long as most SCIENTISTS remain silent we are stuck with this bull#. But it means they are helping to propagate ignorance to the next generation.

PSik,

Much respect to you and your experimental videos. I have followed your posts and YouTube channel for
quite some time.

With respect to your comment on Gage, I don't believe the general public is educated enough to follow
scientific terms at the level that someone like yourself could handle.

AE911 does a good job of explaining the free fall concept and how an object will fall to the ground just
as quickly as the tower descended. If that simple test isn't turning on the light bulb, I don't believe "Joe Public"
is going to grasp mass distribution.

The scientists who understand the heavy math, and physics already know what's going on. They just need
to grow some and step forward as you mentioned already.

To whoever made the comment about me and thanking the guy:

First off, this man was a retired NYPD officer. I was sitting with three current NYPD officers having a discussion when this guy came over and called me a retard.

I told him I don't know you and you don't know me so don't do that. He then sat down and procedded to tell me how he was there and now he can't breathe right because of the dust and debris etc.

I DID THANK HIM FOR HELPING PEOPLE, A HOLE. I just didn't get into detail in my OP. Go bother someone else.

Secondly, he said he was there three days later. I'm pretty sure that anyone who was there and saw the carnage has made up their mind and will refute any evidence written, spoken or seen that the real story was fabricated. Even if we come across the real smoking gun and find a video of the CIA planting devices someone would cry foul and dismiss the TRUTH saying it was a "drill."

I should have made the title this: It's IMPOSSIBLE to show people who were on scene at the twin towers on 9/11 any other story than the one they lived. But alas, hindsight is 20/20

One day we will not be known as liberals, anti-Americans or plain crazy. Stick to it guys (and gals)

PS. No one pushed or shoved, I said "almost" wound up being physical. I left before anything got too out of hand.

The Site Moderator posted a topic about blatant attempts to start arguements and direct insults at others. From my perspective this topic is in the same boat as pro life/pro choice, and you have two opposing factions that will never step foot into the others level of understanding or belief.

I highly doubt even 0.001% of this sites visiting members understand the structural quality/conditions of those towers or building 7 down the block, much less the below ground infrastructure of NY, NY, which documentaties show some pretty crazy stuff.

I personally believe planes hit the towers, and do not have to prove much on that topic. The news were releasing video clip of this WORLD WIDE minutes after it happened, showing planes (well the 2nd plane after people started video recording from the first explosion) then the other footage came later. I was eating my McDonalds fatty breakfast sandwich in the parking lot to the College I was attending at that morning around 7 a.m. I went into the College and informed my teacher, the class went from the subject material of education to TV directly on and watching NY, NY burrow under a pillar of smoke, ash, and emergency crews dying and going crazy to save real peoples lives that were decimated that day.

I do not hvae a problem with people formulating ideas of other alternatives to the destruction of 3000 lives, and the twin towers (also pentagon, and downed liner in a crop field) the sheer coincidence of all this happening, only puts more faith in reality. I do not want to hear about acid powders, control detonations, etc etc. it does not line up with the overall happenings of that day. It is unrealistic and as you like to call "ignorant" to stand ground based on assumptions and peoples "theories" as there are theories that aliens are coming too, I am making popcorn now waiting for them to come down and beam up some folks, or share a hotdog with the world leaders.

Having a debate is one thing, this thread is not ment to have a debate, it was created to stir the pot with example of how somebody is right and everybody else that does not see it the same are wrong and ignorant. I have stayed out of 9/11 threads until now because of this situation. I unfortunately had to reply to this one as I see many term violations and another arguementative scenario evolving.

STOP FIGHTING EACH OTHER ALREADY. what I believe and what you believe are not on a spoon ready to be shoved in the next persons mouth that we consider ignorant based on our own lack of knowledge to the topic. It became an opinion topic years ago and regardless of how many 1000's of pages of theories you have read, it does not make you right, just another opinion.

Originally posted by Eavel
The Site Moderator posted a topic about blatant attempts to start arguements and direct insults at others. From my perspective this topic is in the same boat as pro life/pro choice, and you have two opposing factions that will never step foot into the others level of understanding or belief.

I highly doubt even 0.001% of this sites visiting members understand the structural quality/conditions of those towers or building 7 down the block, much less the below ground infrastructure of NY, NY, which documentaties show some pretty crazy stuff.

I personally believe planes hit the towers, and do not have to prove much on that topic. The news were releasing video clip of this WORLD WIDE minutes after it happened, showing planes (well the 2nd plane after people started video recording from the first explosion) then the other footage came later. I was eating my McDonalds fatty breakfast sandwich in the parking lot to the College I was attending at that morning around 7 a.m. I went into the College and informed my teacher, the class went from the subject material of education to TV directly on and watching NY, NY burrow under a pillar of smoke, ash, and emergency crews dying and going crazy to save real peoples lives that were decimated that day.

I do not hvae a problem with people formulating ideas of other alternatives to the destruction of 3000 lives, and the twin towers (also pentagon, and downed liner in a crop field) the sheer coincidence of all this happening, only puts more faith in reality. I do not want to hear about acid powders, control detonations, etc etc. it does not line up with the overall happenings of that day. It is unrealistic and as you like to call "ignorant" to stand ground based on assumptions and peoples "theories" as there are theories that aliens are coming too, I am making popcorn now waiting for them to come down and beam up some folks, or share a hotdog with the world leaders.

Having a debate is one thing, this thread is not ment to have a debate, it was created to stir the pot with example of how somebody is right and everybody else that does not see it the same are wrong and ignorant. I have stayed out of 9/11 threads until now because of this situation. I unfortunately had to reply to this one as I see many term violations and another arguementative scenario evolving.

STOP FIGHTING EACH OTHER ALREADY. what I believe and what you believe are not on a spoon ready to be shoved in the next persons mouth that we consider ignorant based on our own lack of knowledge to the topic. It became an opinion topic years ago and regardless of how many 1000's of pages of theories you have read, it does not make you right, just another opinion.

You're trying to prove a point about terms violations and an argumentative scenario but you're the one trying to bash me for being upset that people won't have an open mind and listen to FACTUAL EVIDENCE that PROVES the OFFICIAL "STORY" is in fact a flasehood. Go back to eating your McPoison in the parking lot of your COLLEGE

If you'd like I'll be here eating raw organic almonds and drinking purified water whilst awaiting your reply.

reply to post by realeyes


To stay on topic, I have yet to see a concrete theory released. Many nations around the world are sending their own investigators or have sent on this topic just to call out good ole Uncle Sam on another point as they take our aid money. (damn its hard to stay on topic with so much inner twined crap going on these days)

No team has been able to get anything concrete out to the mass media, and trust me, not all media employees are at gun point keeping the information flow from hitting your television.

Point the evidence out if you can or will, youtube videos are not acceptable, its as good as a wikipedia link as all are subject to opinion and theories that are not concrete. If there was a smoking gun in this story (and there might be) somebody that hates our guts would use it in the UN meetings to try and degrade our ability to compete on the global arena. The ability to say the worlds most powerful government (or is it?) has lied, deceitfully withhelp information, and not only that constructed and implemented plans to destroy their own tax paying citizens to continue a war in a harsh middle eastern environment just for the price of easy to siphon crude oil.

With the amount of money, time, preparations, bribes, pay offs, etc. etc. they could have created the technology to mine/process sand oil patches larger than all of the middle easterns capability to output cheap liquid crude.

Point is, I am not here to argue with you or anybody else. You are only asked to take the same stance your requesting and have an open mind to all theories and inputs regardless of your personnal feelings. Is the posibilit that this was a setup to further constrict and control the American people? Maybe, but the global scale of that type operation being perfected and kept secret for this long? impossible.

I am sorry you also attacked my youth and ability to process crap food and maintain thin. I now run 5 miles or bike over 20 a day, so keep eating your almonds. It is good for you

Originally posted by Eavel
reply to post by realeyes

 

To stay on topic, I have yet to see a concrete theory released. Many nations around the world are sending their own investigators or have sent on this topic just to call out good ole Uncle Sam on another point as they take our aid money. (damn its hard to stay on topic with so much inner twined crap going on these days)

No team has been able to get anything concrete out to the mass media, and trust me, not all media employees are at gun point keeping the information flow from hitting your television.

Point the evidence out if you can or will, youtube videos are not acceptable, its as good as a wikipedia link as all are subject to opinion and theories that are not concrete. If there was a smoking gun in this story (and there might be) somebody that hates our guts would use it in the UN meetings to try and degrade our ability to compete on the global arena. The ability to say the worlds most powerful government (or is it?) has lied, deceitfully withhelp information, and not only that constructed and implemented plans to destroy their own tax paying citizens to continue a war in a harsh middle eastern environment just for the price of easy to siphon crude oil.

With the amount of money, time, preparations, bribes, pay offs, etc. etc. they could have created the technology to mine/process sand oil patches larger than all of the middle easterns capability to output cheap liquid crude.

Point is, I am not here to argue with you or anybody else. You are only asked to take the same stance your requesting and have an open mind to all theories and inputs regardless of your personnal feelings. Is the posibilit that this was a setup to further constrict and control the American people? Maybe, but the global scale of that type operation being perfected and kept secret for this long? impossible.

I am sorry you also attacked my youth and ability to process crap food and maintain thin. I now run 5 miles or bike over 20 a day, so keep eating your almonds. It is good for you

I think you meant "intertwined" but heck, you got your education from a government-run institution so I'll let it slide, but just this once.
Let's just stop the nonsense. You believe what you believe and so do I.

Originally posted by realeyes


I think you meant "intertwined" but heck, you got your education from a government-run institution so I'll let it slide, but just this once.
Let's just stop the nonsense. You believe what you believe and so do I.

Serious? Your evidence is only point a finger at some random typo and smear an uneducated equation with 3 lines and nothing to backup the original topic? Have a good day Sir, this is a waste of anybodys time, including your own.

I choose not to edit my post as I do see my typos as well as yours, though you missed a few of mine, maybe you can point them out as evidence to non aerial destruction of the twin towers? Unsure your direction on this topic any longer, its obviously not an open minded debate or agreement. I vote this thread closed as its intended purpose is not to inform of two party peace talks over a critical subject. It is only a cover-up to troll and point out gramatical errors.

Originally posted by turbofanWith respect to your comment on Gage, I don't believe the general public is educated enough to follow scientific terms at the level that someone like yourself could handle.

AE911 does a good job of explaining the free fall concept and how an object will fall to the ground just
as quickly as the tower descended. If that simple test isn't turning on the light bulb, I don't believe "Joe Public" is going to grasp mass distribution.

I asked Richard Gage about the distributions of steel and concrete after one of his shows in May of 2008. He got a surprised look on his face and said the NIST wasn't releasing accurate blueprints. I thought that was pretty LAME.

Some people want to believe most people are stupid so they don't try to explain the simple.

My pledge father was an architect. A standard joke at Illinois Institute of Technology at the time was "architects take funny physics and funny math". If we don't try to explain the importance of the distributions of steel and concrete to analyzing this problem then we will never know how many can. People on both sides of the issue just want to produce BELIEVERS. Not COMPREHENDERS that can think for themselves.

Our economists think that PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE and the Depreciation of Durable Consumer Goods is too difficult for most of us to understand.

Any MORON can hide information.

psik

My take on this is that the OS and CD are distractions to mask a third hypothesis which is the whole thing was an insurance scam. My late father always told me "if you can't understand why something was done, follow the money." Larry Silverstein is the one to follow, IMHO.

If you purchase a house on credit this year and next year it burns down, you still owe the loan amount.

If Silverstein had it excessively over insured, the insurance companies would have screamed bloody murder by now. Otherwise he is entitled to the money. No conspiracy here.

This was never meant to be a debate of any sort. I never mentioned any scientific, empirical evidence on either position so how this has become a pissing contest on who was right and who was wrong I do not know. In any case, the OP was about the ignorance of some people to blindly make up their mind based on news reporting. Science has proven that first-hand eye witness accounts are largely made up of a persons own memories, emotions and people in their lives. The same reason why murderers get away clean when someone can't ID them out of a lineup. People who were there on 9/11 saw what they wanted to and then had the story pounded into their head by the media. For the most part the ones here searching for the truth have stepped back and taken a different look, from a different angle and come across some anomalies that seem way too coincidental or scientifically impossible from a physics standpoint.

Believe nothing of what you hear, and only some of what you see.

reply to post by realeyes


Look, nobody is stating that you are wrong or right. You make a post about how somebody else is agressive about a sensitive topic and close to many. The guy was there, helping people get out for days, and the ones who could not get out he was finding under rubble and probably due to their decaying smell.

I am only trying to say when you come on here and write that people need to open their minds more, you are not doing that as your fixated on one side of the arguement. Regardless of how incompetent I beleive that side is on producing any sort of proof, or explaining the integrity of ALL aspects that day (dead weight of building structure, live weight, g-force impact and its effects on THAT building after a large airliner hits it, fuel loss and weight of fuel now on that weakened structure, fuel ignition and damage caused by different class fires that got so hot it melted the flame retardent off the walls.) Most modern buildings are built on a truss structure system as you can span lots of overhead with little support below. Though this is an impeccable design ment to hold massive down force in dead and live weight, it has to be seriously reinforced to side pressures. I do not know a building that is coded and created to withstand the impact of any airliner. Until 911 no engineer even thought of a single element past wind/rain/snow.

That is all some people are saying, you are preeching to open our minds, but then your very closed minded. Based on how quickly you became offensive to one single person that just questioned your motives here, I do not believe the person was at fault that say you came close to a pushing match. I have a feeling it was a very loud conversaion and instead of pushing reason out of your lips, your voice started booming with passion for your own belief without considering others stances. You might have "insulted" him as he was there seeing/smelling/touching/tasting the real death of people, and regardless of eye trickery, that day happened bud.

Now, your not wrong, your not right, stop making others seem wrong or right, and just express your opinion.

**EDIT** I do not mean for the natural disaster subjects to be limited, just giving most common ones they think about, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, and the list goes on and on. I DID edit this one and no i WILL NOT go back looking for grammatical errors, as people who point those out are just grasping at straws for arguemnetative sake.

reply to post by realeyes


fight a battle you can win. Ask them how a box cutter turned off the missile defense at the pentagon ? did they have magic box cutters? or did the man back in a cave on wifi hack into the US defense grid and turn it off?? then after you get them mind open you can talk about the builds. or use the fact that not one of the 3 black boxes could be found for the first time in history. Even if the plane crashed into the sea, that might make them think. or the fact about Bush (Devil 4) past a bill in july of that year say only one of 3 man could say jets needed to intercept a plane over the US. or when someone told Bush "the US was under attack" he didn't care. Start with something they can't fight about.