It's impossible

That's right folks, I said impossible! Impossible to change the minds of people that believe that these buildings actually collapsed because of a plane crash and a fire. I just got into a very heated debate that almost ended up in a physical fight because someone who was there on 9/11 claimed that "I'm no scientist" and therefore I have no knowledge of the subject. But I'll assume he believes he does know what temperature steel melts and jet fuel burns because he was a cop in the NYPD and was there when it happened. I tell ya, we're fighting a losing battle trying to expose the truth. I've read the 9/11 report, watched countless hours of video, sifted through thousands of documents and these people won't even have an open mind about the myriad phenomenon that occurred that day. For things to happen the way the official story says, NY hit the lottery at least a dozen times in one day. How do you deal with blatant ignorance? I just got up and left.

Listen mate; there are two sources of confidence in this world. One is eduction, training, expereince, and research, ..... the other is ignorance.

It should not take long to learn which one your dealing with and if your dealing with ignorance back off, try planting a seed instead.

cheers

reply to post by bussoboy


To be honest Im usually very calm and collected when facing adversary such as this. I don't stumble or choke on my words and I gather my thoughts and rebuttals quicker than most people thanks to ADHD. It's just that the fact that someone can look at this event and not scream about how many things went wrong is beyond me. I got a little too involved and then became angry so I guess it's kind of my fault that it went as far as it did. But out of the 5 people I was with none of them could fathom an event so sinister. As a wise man once said: "There's always 3 sides to a story. Yours, theirs and the truth." In my defense there was 5 of them refuting every claim I had, I was bound to lose it sooner or later. That's why I love ATS, the truth will out

reply to post by realeyes



Most people only know how to beleive what they see and hear from the news and never 2nd guess or question. It is also easier / comforting to believe that your government is out to help you.

But I am with you, this subject can be very frustrating to talk about.

reply to post by realeyes


It's the way humans are.
We believe what we want to believe, and there's no way of changing their perspective on things.
Some people are very ignorant, they think their way is the only way.
I like roughing these people up, makes for a good show.

Cheers
Brady

The worst and most alarming aspect of the ignorance is that people really don't even seem to care about their lives. Even if our lives are not a direct target (like the 3,000+ on 9/11), the sheer amount of taxes and loss of personal liberties should be enough to get people to wake up and smell the coffee. Sadly this isn't the case, as most are more concerned about something as unimportant as a "Mosque"/Faith Center. Or Jersey Shore. Just about anything but the very core of our "freedom", not that there was much in the first place.

reply to post by Topsy_Cret

Topsy_Cret; I got to dissagree with you there a bit. my wife and I sat up and watched 911 on TV for 2 hours until it beyond my bed time. It was even advert free. I watched it past the both buidling collapses.

I gotta say that nothing really struck me as odd about the events I watched unfold accept that Osama Bin Lardens name got mentioned about 50 times in two hours of watching. The only other thing I noted was the amount of dust that was generated when the buidlings fell, even then it didnt seem particualry odd.

I only become interested in 911 when I happend to vist Youtube after hearing the website mentioned on TV a few years later. Mind you; we in Aussiland never even heard that anyone in the US was questioning the event. Anyway, I downloaded some videos on 911 and my interest or awakening if you will, started from there.

Since then I have accumulated heaps of videos on 911 since and I have since come to the view that it was an inside job based upon all the videos I have seen.

I only found ATS a year or so ago.

Most people are sheeple because they are "taught" to be that and are seperated away from conspiracy theory's by the use of goverment ridicule as it has the added advantage that not only does it discredit the conspiracy theorists by making them look silly but that in a round about way it makes the goverment look "right". I know this sounds a bit weak but it's also difficult to explain.

There is an excellant article on how people are minipulated without even knowing it in a magazine called nexus which is published in Queensland Australia. I would put a link to it if I knew how. Must learn how to do that.

cya

Originally posted by realeyes
... I just got into a very heated debate that almost ended up in a physical fight ...

Oh wow, did you push each other and who actually started?

There is a difference between shouting and yelling and actually become physical.

If some people are out of arguments, they start using their hands - that is so sad.

There is no shame in saying "okay, you outdebated me. It might not mean that you're smarter than me but you're probably more informed on this current subject than I am, and I'm now interested in trying to explore your points of view. We should exchange phone numbers and I'll give you a call once I have MY facts straight."

Exactly!

That is why the problem is the engineering schools and all of the people with the DEGREES and CERTIFICATIONS who should have been explaining why it was IMPOSSIBLE years ago.

Why doesn't Richard Gage and his buddies talk about the distribution of steel in the towers? I have been to one of his dog and pony shows. Gage is a propagandist. He is not trying to get people to COMPREHEND this scientifically.

So as long as most SCIENTISTS remain silent we are stuck with this bull#. But it means they are helping to propagate ignorance to the next generation.

www.youtube.com...

9/11 is the Piltdown Man Incident of the 21st century.

psik

Its enough when a "Expert" from our beloved Telly to tell us what happened.

But when you do your own research, you are finding out its alot questions that was never accounted for.
Its then people are asking and on the other side its the people that are living their ignorent lifes that cant really accept their flats screens are lying to them.

reply to post by psikeyhackr

That is why the problem is the engineering schools and all of the people with the DEGREES and CERTIFICATIONS who should have been explaining why it was IMPOSSIBLE years ago.

Unless, of course, and this is just a guess here, they know it was NOT IMPOSSIBLE and therefore you are wrong.

And since we are on the subject of possibility and probability, which of the following scenarios has the greatest probability of being correct?

a) You are smarter than everyone else in the world.
b) Everyone but you is "in on it".
c) You are wrong.

Take your time and think about it for a little while.

Originally posted by realeyes
That's right folks, I said impossible! Impossible to change the minds of people that believe that these buildings actually collapsed because of a plane crash and a fire. I just got into a very heated debate that almost ended up in a physical fight because someone who was there on 9/11 claimed that "I'm no scientist" and therefore I have no knowledge of the subject. But I'll assume he believes he does know what temperature steel melts and jet fuel burns because he was a cop in the NYPD and was there when it happened. I tell ya, we're fighting a losing battle trying to expose the truth. I've read the 9/11 report, watched countless hours of video, sifted through thousands of documents and these people won't even have an open mind about the myriad phenomenon that occurred that day. For things to happen the way the official story says, NY hit the lottery at least a dozen times in one day. How do you deal with blatant ignorance? I just got up and left.

Instead of arguing with the cop, did you ever consider THANKING HIM for putting his life on the line every day to make sure you can wallow in your "the gov't is plotting to murder us all" conspiracy stories in perfect comfort? I'm sorry for sounding belligerant, but Jeez, Louse, that NYPD cop almost certainly knows at least one fellow policeman who was killed on 9/11. How can he NOT become irate over this?

All reports agree the towers collapsed becuase of irregular thermal expansion of the steel exploiting an achilles heel within the design that noone knew was there, so when you say, "fires melted the steel" right away it means you only have the Wile E. Coyote cartoon version of 9/11 that Dylan Avery, Alex Jones, et al are foisting on people,. If there is disagreement with the NIST, FEMA, MIT, Perdue, etc reports (which, incidentally, DID come from scientists), fine, I can accept that, but don't be making up your own details to suit your own purpose and don't complain when you encounter someone who was actually there and can you on it.

If you're so emotionally attached to these conspiracy stories that you're willing to even argue with cops over it, this isn't being motivated to learn the truth about 9/11. It's motivated by a blind ideology to convert others into believing what you yourself believe regardless of what the truth is, and NYPD cops who most likely lost a colleague on 9/11 is a BAD BAD BAD place for you to be doing this.

That is why the problem is the engineering schools and all of the people with the DEGREES and CERTIFICATIONS who should have been explaining why it was IMPOSSIBLE years ago.

So all the people with the degrees and certifications are wrong?
So all the people who touched and examined the evidence are wrong?

Do you have a degree or certification that qualifies you as an expert?
Did you touch and examine the evidence?


Whom should the public believe the investigating experts or the Youtube experts?

reply to post by samkent


Very good point.

The original poster says its impossible to change our mind from the plausible and realistic theory that the attack was performed by terrorists.

Its the same the other way round. I have still not seen heard anything that will make me believe this was orchestrated by the U.S government. I guess i am a dis-info agent/plant whatever you call us.

Whenever I try and have a civilised debate about this subject I recieve hostility.

At risk of upsetting someone, perhaps it wasn't wise having a youtube based argument against somebody who was there. I don't want an argument myself, its just an observation.

PEACE.

Originally posted by jexmo
reply to post by samkent

 

Very good point.

The original poster says its impossible to change our mind from the plausible and realistic theory that the attack was performed by terrorists.

Its the same the other way round. I have still not seen heard anything that will make me believe this was orchestrated by the U.S government. I guess i am a dis-info agent/plant whatever you call us.

Whenever I try and have a civilised debate about this subject I recieve hostility.

At risk of upsetting someone, perhaps it wasn't wise having a youtube based argument against somebody who was there. I don't want an argument myself, its just an observation.

PEACE.

This is exactly right. I can't even count the number of times that, after posting information showing it was a terrorist attack, that the opposition here started inventing accusations on his own that it was all gov't disinformation and the people reporting it were secret gov't agents. This ranged from as little as a taxi driver in a cab by the Pentagon to as grandiose as every video footage of the plane striking the WTC in existence. Not a single person could ever actually show how they knew it was gov't disinformation or the witnesses were secret gov't agents, so it's obvious they're just making up the claim off the top of their head as an excuse for why they don't have to believe it.

How many people are involved in this supposedly "secret" conspiracy, anyway?

Instead of arguing with the cop, did you ever consider THANKING HIM for putting his life on the line every day to make sure you can wallow in your "the gov't is plotting to murder us all" conspiracy stories in perfect comfort? I'm sorry for sounding belligerant, but Jeez, Louse, that NYPD cop almost certainly knows at least one fellow policeman who was killed on 9/11. How can he NOT become irate over this?

All reports agree the towers collapsed becuase of irregular thermal expansion of the steel exploiting an achilles heel within the design that noone knew was there, so when you say, "fires melted the steel" right away it means you only have the Wile E. Coyote cartoon version of 9/11 that Dylan Avery, Alex Jones, et al are foisting on people,. If there is disagreement with the NIST, FEMA, MIT, Perdue, etc reports (which, incidentally, DID come from scientists), fine, I can accept that, but don't be making up your own details to suit your own purpose and don't complain when you encounter someone who was actually there and can you on it.

If you're so emotionally attached to these conspiracy stories that you're willing to even argue with cops over it, this isn't being motivated to learn the truth about 9/11. It's motivated by a blind ideology to convert others into believing what you yourself believe regardless of what the truth is, and NYPD cops who most likely lost a colleague on 9/11 is a BAD BAD BAD place for you to be doing this.



Yes! This is the most intelligent thing I have read on this subject on this site. I know its a conspiracy site, but a lot of folks on here want to believe 9/11 was a conspiracy that they ignore the accounts of people who were there.

I think you're right in a way.

The more both people argue their points, the more they believe what they said in the first place.

Let's be honest. You can all say "I take both sides fairly", but do you? Or do you wait for the person to reply, so you can reply and just say more about your opinion?

Reminds me of the Hilary Swank argument in 'The Office'



The more truthers argue about 9/11 the more they believe it was CD.

The more debunkers debunk, the more they believe in the OS.

It's a never ending cycle.

i think..everyone who believe the plane story ..when the towers fall...will believe it for allways...

for me it was impossible to believe a plane could bring down a tower like this in the moment i saw it fall...

we have to face it...they get away with it...

reply to post by realeyes
I think it says more about our education system than anything else and people's slavish, unquestionable trust in authority. Some people just aren't sufficiently educated to understand what near-freefall is, the conservation of momentum, or how a building can be blown to smithereens in mid-air due to gravity alone. Some would rather believe authority than trust their own eyes. Just yesterday someone told me that WTC7 looked nothing like a controlled demolition. In their efforts to bamboozle people NIST will lead them on a phantasmagorical trip around the universe and up the garden path until people's minds are exhausted and lost in bewilderment underneath the mountains of nonsensical, self-contradictory pseudoscience while the media will constantly drum it into their patsy heads that whoever questions the OS are nuts, until they emerge a pre-programmed zombie, who goes fourth into the world to repeat mindlessly and unremittingly the dogmas with which they have been brainwashed.

Originally posted by Nathan-D
reply to post by realeyes

 

I think it says more about our education system than anything else and people's slavish, unquestionable trust in authority. Some people just aren't sufficiently educated to understand what near-freefall is, the conservation of momentum, or how a building can be blown to smithereens in mid-air due to gravity alone. Some would rather believe authority than trust their own eyes. Just yesterday someone told me that WTC7 looked nothing like a controlled demolition. In their efforts to bamboozle people NIST will lead them on a phantasmagorical trip around the universe and up the garden path until people's minds are exhausted and lost in bewilderment underneath the mountains of nonsensical, self-contradictory pseudoscience while the media will constantly drum it into their patsy heads that whoever questions the OS are nuts, until they emerge a pre-programmed zombie, who goes fourth into the world to repeat mindlessly and unremittingly the dogmas with which they have been brainwashed.

I agree, WTC 7 looked nothing like a controlled demolition. The building experienced unfought fires all day, It was leaning, creaking and bulging and all firefighters were pulled back from it. When it collapsed the penthouse fell in first , the roof line crumbled and then the rest of the building. There were no demolition detonations as in this case of a real cd :-

www.youtube.com...

While you are at it, perhaps you could try to argue the facts and cut out the moronic we truthers are so much superior to anyone else attitude. My observation on here is that truthers are frequently ignorant of basic facts and almost totally lacking critical faculties.