How does Jesus' death save us?

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


The very first Chapter of John says that Jesus is god. And as for dogma, every religion has teachings that coinciding with their scripture, etc, there's more than one way to pass down information and wisdom from generation to generation.

reply to post by snusfanatic


Well who are you to believe John or God? Jesus to me is not God. God cannot become a human. Which will make God weak.
God in Judaism

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet

Jews do not believe in the doctrine of original sin.

This is a lie. King David says otherwise in Psalms:

"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." ~ Psalm 51:5

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Do you understand what that verse means don't you? That doesn't mean original sin. It most likely means she conceived him before she was married.

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


I understand what you're saying. It's just two different interpretations of the OT God. Jesus's Disciples were Jews and before the Roman Empire became the "Holy Roman Empire" the vast majority of Christians were Jews and a vast number of Jews had converted to Christianity. I respect your take on the nature of God, some people are just going to disagree. They have since the beginning of this whole debate.

Okay, if we have to read all your links, then kindly return the favor and listen to this one and resond:

Jesus Promised in the OT

reply to post by snusfanatic


Of course. I love to argue. Some users just love to bite. Be, you and the other user see God differently. Our logic on God is different. We interpret the Bible different. If me and the other user switched places of worship. I went to his church and he went to my synagogue. We would be scratching our head most of the time and we would wonder where are they coming at.

Originally posted by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Do you understand what that verse means don't you? That doesn't mean original sin. It most likely means she conceived him before she was married.

David was the youngest of 8 sons of Jesse.

His mother was married when he was conceived.

Try again.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Well then I doubt it was original sin. Because Jews don't believe in original sin. She must of did something to sin.
I'm going to view your video and comment later. Since it is an hour long.

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


I'm right there with you on the arguing man. haha. I said I'd leave this page like 5 posts ago. But that's ATS for ya.

reply to post by snusfanatic


True! I need to U2U the other user. We're going everywhere and it was only a personal opinion the OP asked for.

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


Cool, I appreciate you wanting to watch the video. And you gotta realize the Jews altered their Theology after 70 AD when the Temple was destroyed. These Jews were the Messorites. They most likely decided there was no original sin to counter the claims of the Jewish Christians.

What David said is that he was born from his mother's womb a sinner. That he was "conceived" in sin means at the point of conception, sin was passed to him from mother and father.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Thanks! I will be on later. Comment me later today or tomorrow.
I have a lot and I mean a lot of stuff to go over with you!

Originally posted by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Thanks! I will be on later. Comment me later today or tomorrow.
I have a lot and I mean a lot of stuff to go over with you!

haha, that's cool man, and you can share that's fine, just understand it's gonna be a two-way discussion, I have LOTS to share also.

Take care.

I read the first two replies, and couldn't help but respond. Because God Said so, and that's it? Saying such would be like reading the cliff notes on the roman empire and saying it fell because of barbarians because they showed up.

Because God said so. Well, yeah. Quite frankly, the end all be all is because God said so. Over and over, through the Word, which is the Bible, as well as His Creation, over and over and over and over, through example after example after example as well as scripture after scripture after scripture after scripture.

The initial posts make it seem as if the decision were completely arbitrary without any rhyme or reason. The reality is drastically different. The Hebrew texts set this up. There is a precedent of sacrifice being necessary to make us right with God.

However, there's this passage in Romans that says creation supports His Word. That can't be right, right? After all, how can one person's sacrifice bring another person's life? Absurd!

Well, absurd until you look at all of the planet's life cycle. One creature must feed on another to life. There is no example where this does not take place. Cows graze. Their destruction of grass lifeforms keeps them alive. They need to destroy these life forms daily to live. Romans talks about how all of creation reflects God, and no one has excuse.

Yet then there was Christ. He was the perfect sacrifice. He made all other sacrifices unnecessary. He was without fault. How can that possibly work, in so far as reconciliation goes with this planet? When you eat something, don't you use all of it to make yourself "right" with your energy needs? I dunno... Are you the guy who never has to take a dump? Everything there is wasted by you. It's stuff your body can't use.

Christ fits outside of what we understand, outside of what this fallen world provides. Christ is considered the perfect sacrifice, that which needs nothing else. In scripture, He speaks of living water. He says that after you drink from this, you need nothing else. Again, he's using creation to support God's plan -- we waste much, because what we use isn't perfect -- it's fallen. With God, He can provide the perfect sacrament. Something where nothing is wasted, but instead provides.

The only thing that demonstrates we need Christ is Christ's words? No, as the Bible says, all of creation points to God, and all of creation points to Christ. His sacrifice was needed for us because there hadn't been a sacrifice capable of sustaining us for eternity, as determined by day to day observation, commonly known as science.

God worked within the constrains He set upon Himself to guide us to Him. This is yet another example of that. All of creation points to Him. As we learn and discover more, we will reaffirm His Word, time and time again.

Dude, the guy (or lady, dunno) is MOCKING Christians.

Madnessinmysoul is an Atheist.

Thanks for all your replies, most appreciative. Jungle Jake ,yours gave me goose bumps. Although my own conclusion on how exactly Jesus' death saves us is cloudy, somehow it seems undeniable that it does.Ransom,atonement,penal substitute, and sacrifice seem to reaffirm my original thought.

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


As David was the youngest outa many children, I find the "born outa wedlock" hard to swallow.
Also I love how you take so much scripture literally but you feel free to infer when it suits your purposes...

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Hahaha, man, I need to just take the time to keep reading. I posted my comment about David being the youngest before I saw yours
I feel silly.. I just get flustered when I see people taking stuff out of context and spewing out disinformation

Thank you for being informed and sharing with others

reply to post by deanyo




Don't thank me my friend, thank the Lord and His Spirit who guides and teaches us on all truth and knowledge.