What about Scientology?!!

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by jfj123
It matters not how many pages you can post of the negative effects, if this is all you intend to do and you, as you have shown, refuse to acknowledge the positive effects

AGAIN, what positive effects??????? Post them or stop lying about them. You're making yourself look foolish.

You are outright lying with this statement. The fact is you refuse to acknowledge, or do any research that might contradict your bias. As I have all ready stated, I did not enter this thread to defend any religion and simply provided some quotes of Hubbard that indicate religious teachings, since no one else seemed to have any intentions of doing so while cherry picking data to push forth a vitriolic agenda. You're invitation to me to go ahead and post the good they do is quite disingenuous since you seem intent on framing me as one who is defending Scientology.

As long as you insist on only presenting negative data regarding this church, and steadfastly refuse to offer any positive data, then your bias will remain evident, and your agenda clear.

I've read quite a bit about scientology and have weighed all the facts. But again, why don't you go ahead and post some facts that contradict all the info I've posted.

You are more than likely lying.

PROVE IT

The only people I ever hear talk about this supposed belief in an alien is from non Scientologist's. I have asked Scientologists about this, and all the Scientologist's I have asked don't know what I am talking about.

This has already been explained. Don't believe me, simply LISTEN TO L. Ron's own words. Is L. Ron lying too ????????

Precisely, unlike you, I have bothered to read Scientology literature, and once again you are being disingenuous by declaring "aha!" You don't honestly think I was able to quote so many of Hubbard's religious aphorisms because they are well known and easily accessed by memory, do you? I have books given to me that I used to post those.

Actually I'm suggesting you are a scientology plant. You see, you are using the same phrasing as a typical scientologist agent Thus the AHA

Scientologist's have for years now attempted to draw me in and register for courses and pay for auditing sessions,

Why you?

You don't have any problems at all with your own extremism.

I'm not an extremist. I don't agree with anyone who abuses power, hurts others, steals, etc... How is that being an extremist? Please be detailed.

huh??? How am I suppressing you in any way ?

I respond to another poster's quote of Hubbard claiming the money is in religion by pointing out the reality that many religions hold vast amounts of wealth, and you jump in and demand I can only talk about Scientologists, and if I want to talk about Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, or Jews, I should start a different thread. This demand is a form of suppression.

And yet here you are talking about whatever you like Looks as if you've not been "suppressed" in any way, shape or form Go ahead...call me an SP....you know you're dying to

Isn't that the whole basis of discussing subject matter on ATS?

Where are you having any discussion?

I'm posting. You're posting. I'm responding. You're responding. This is a discussion my confused friend

You flat out made it clear you have no intentions of discussing the fact that very many religions have amassed great amounts of wealth.

It's irrelevant to this thread. If you'd like to discuss that in another thread, I'd be more than happy to.

You want to proselytize about the evils of Scientology, but refuse to acknowledge that pretty much all religions can be demonstrated to have caused some harm. You aren't interested in a discussion, merely using this thread as an opportunity to post your propaganda.

Again, the discussion is about scientology and not about other religions. You're suggesting that because other religions may be bad, it's ok for scientology to be bad. This is laughable and sad at the same time.

You're not discussing all viewpoints, and when I attempted to expand the discussion into a wider viewpoint by pointing out that more than Scientology is interested in wealth, you attempted to shut me down.

Did I delete your post? Did I censor your post? You can post whatever you like. If you feel I'm only posting one view point, post another viewpoint. What are you waiting for??????

You cannot suppress me because I won't allow it,

You just said I was suppressing you. You've said it several times. Now you're saying I'm not. So then what's the problem?

On a side note, I find it interesting you used the word "suppress" OOPS You've been outed !

"Outed" have I?

YES

Are you now implying that the word suppress belongs to Scientologists?

No I'm implying that the way you are using those words and forming your baseless arguments to deflect factual statements is a typical scientologist tactic

Uh-huh. Now there's some irony for you. Sort of like gay people "outing" people. Care to explain what an SP is?

Another tactic. implied guilt of a lifestyle to deflect from factual information.
You know what an SP is my friend

I offered that fair and balanced data by supplying several quotes of Hubbard's that I believed had some wisdom to offer.

No no no my friend You've stated my posts are factually incorrect. Now you need to either post real factual data that contradicts my data or you lose You've stated that I'm cherry picking only the bad things. So go ahead and post all the good things. If you can't, you have no argument

My original post did not offer much of my viewpoint at all!

So is the rule: Nobody can respond to your posts and offer a viewpoint that you may not like? Does that make you feel like king of the sandbox?

Liars usually have a hard time believing anyone.

Ah yes and once again deflection from the actual discussion. An attempt to discredit me as opposed to offer any real alternative information. Typical scientology tactic Poorly delivered by the way.

Posting on a public forum does mean that I will have to learn to deal with people who rely solely on logical fallacies,

AGAIN, PROVE ME WRONG I'm still waiting

You refused to speak to the wisdom, or lack thereof, of the quotes themselves and instead tried to dismiss them by attacking the person who was quoted. This is an ad hominem.

Ok so here is a response to those quotes. They are disingenuous at best. L. Ron had a plan to make money and he used his charisma to lie cheat and steal from people. Those quotes are a direct reflection of his ability to use his charisma to....again....lie, cheat and steal. Is that better? Now why not actually post factual data you claim to have that directly contradicts what I have posted?

Further, as I keep saying, you are far less interested in discussion, than you are in posting propaganda.

It's only propaganda if its a spin, twist or outright deception. What I've posted is simply factual data with some opinion sprinkled in. Go ahead and prove the factual data is false.

Your pomposity is telling enough. You are clearly interested in harassing.

Well I haven't been banned yet have I ? So I guess your suggestion that I am harassing you is an outright lie

When I posted those quotes, I did not do so as a reply to you,

AGAIN, irrelevant. This is an open discussion board where anyone can respond to anyone else' post. If you don't want this to happen, don't post here as it happens to EVERYONE, ALL THE TIME.

Scientology is not more legit than believing in the force. They are both science fiction stories, that provide a belief system.

Actually, that's unfair on Star Wars fans - I don't see them doing what the Scientology crowd get up to.

There are many ridicules beliefs, but in an infinite universe they should be mandatory. In an infinite Universe not only is anything possible, but everything should be mandatory, no matter how weird, or plausible it sounds.

A few more examples of nutty stories...

Originally posted by derfred33




Personally I find amazing that supposedly well informed people buy this bad sci-fi story and even pay fortunes to have access to this story and accept it as an hidden truth. You can read about it in the link above.

Is there any cult like this but based on Dune or Star wars? ...Lord of the rings...

Yea. there is this cult where the whole religion is based on the teachings of this one crazy guy. He was able to walk on water. He also came back to life three days later. But, the book wasn't even put together till this thing called the council of nicea. Here the ruler at the time decided what chapters were going to be in the book. My favorite story is in the beginning when there was this married couple, but the had never had sex, so the woman was a virgin. However, she got pregnant somehow by and invisible guy. Then the baby grew up and died and came back to life. But, his parents never had sex or produced any other children while they were alive.

I know it is hard story to believe. I can't believe cults are started from books.

Originally posted by mateandbucky06

Originally posted by derfred33




Personally I find amazing that supposedly well informed people buy this bad sci-fi story and even pay fortunes to have access to this story and accept it as an hidden truth. You can read about it in the link above.

Is there any cult like this but based on Dune or Star wars? ...Lord of the rings...

Yea. there is this cult where the whole religion is based on the teachings of this one crazy guy. He was able to walk on water. He also came back to life three days later. But, the book wasn't even put together till this thing called the council of nicea. Here the ruler at the time decided what chapters were going to be in the book. My favorite story is in the beginning when there was this married couple, but the had never had sex, so the woman was a virgin. However, she got pregnant somehow by and invisible guy. Then the baby grew up and died and came back to life. But, his parents never had sex or produced any other children while they were alive.

I know it is hard story to believe. I can't believe cults are started from books.

I'm an atheist but I think the point is this:

Real religions = Weird stories and beliefs adopted by millions. Church gets rich through donations and charity. Spend their time helping the poorest in society.

Scientology = Equally weird story and beliefs adopted by many. "Church" gets rich by charging its flock extortionate sums of money for more information and greater spiritual enlightenment. In effect, only the rich can reach true spiritual happiness.

reply to post by derfred33


Genome scans have turned up single nucleotide polymorphisms associated with different responses to treatment, but efforts to uncover the mechanism have drawn a blank

Genome scans have turned up single nucleotide polymorphisms associated with different responses to treatment, but efforts to uncover the mechanism have drawn a blank

Genome scans have turned up single nucleotide polymorphisms associated with different responses to treatment, but efforts to uncover the mechanism have drawn a blank

What the heck scientology topic doing on this board. Can a mod move this to.. 'conspiracy' lol or somewhere else.

reply to post by Morgil


I am glad somebody understands me

Line 2

reply to post by korats


Not sure, but maybe because Scientology is associated with Aliens....flying spaceships...

So are Mormons...

So are most religions for that matter...not the space ship part

Originally posted by korats
What the heck scientology topic doing on this board. Can a mod move this to.. 'conspiracy' lol or somewhere else.

what do you mean?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


You want a positive?
Scientology has made a few people at the top, very rich and I'm sure they like it
There's your positive

Fact of the matter is our constitution (something some people on ats care nothing about) gives us our right to religion and the right to assemble. The fact that I see alleged masons attacking Scientology shows me just one thing: That the NWO is threatened by the worlds first individual oriented religion in the history of the west. To a mason individualism is reserved for those in their ranks and even then they answer to someone else and must adhere to the spiritual teachings of another rather than be fulfilled with the knowledge which is there inherited right.
Scientology not only hold a stake as the worlds faster growing religious group but scientologist are proving every day that they are the most important part of western spirituality, diplomacy and the all and all greater good in the world.

It's funny how most people who attack Scientology are either atheist, lucifarian and people who are social degenerates who pass around child pornography, attack various governments world wide over insignificant issues such as their right to have access to a certain type of pornography. Fact of the matter is Scientology is the worlds most open and well intentioned religion in the world who do not (unlike other immortal being based groups) spiritually brainwash their parishioners or force them to sell their souls to Lucifer or satan in order to gain occult knowledge. NO! Scientology puts forth a well intended solution to fight these ideals and help free humanity of the works which bind them to a life of misfortune and control which our governments have quickly accepted as the norm of the modern age.

If you want to know about Scientology many of the online bookstores have used copies of every Scientology book put out by LRH and they cost anywhere from 1 to 5 dollars! The ideals of Scientology can save lives and lead to a better understanding of the needs of the human being and his spirit.

Originally posted by Seveen
Fact of the matter is our constitution (something some people on ats care nothing about) gives us our right to religion and the right to assemble. The fact that I see alleged masons attacking Scientology shows me just one thing: That the NWO is threatened by the worlds first individual oriented religion in the history of the west.

1. Who here is a mason? How do you determine this?
2. Does the Constitution allow for criminal activitiy, murder, harassment, etc.. ? Because this is what scientology is involved in. Please go back a few pages and read my long post which shows some of the things scientology has been involved in over the years.

Scientology not only hold a stake as the worlds faster growing religious group

Could you post the statistics that support this statement? If you can't, we must assume the statement is false.

but scientologist are proving every day that they are the most important part of western spirituality, diplomacy and the all and all greater good in the world.

How are they proving this? Please post evidence to suggest anything you've just said, is true.

It's funny how most people who attack Scientology are either atheist, lucifarian and people who are social degenerates who pass around child pornography,

Wow another scientologist Obviously this is standard scientologist practice. Attack and make false accusations to suppress decent.

attack various governments world wide over insignificant issues such as their right to have access to a certain type of pornography.

But is it ok for scientologists to infiltrate governments and steel?

Fact of the matter is Scientology is the worlds most open and well intentioned religion in the world who do not (unlike other immortal being based groups) spiritually brainwash their parishioners or force them to sell their souls to Lucifer or satan in order to gain occult knowledge.

No instead they sell their souls to XENU
And brainwash through "auditing" .

NO! Scientology puts forth a well intended solution to fight these ideals and help free humanity of the works which bind them to a life of misfortune and control which our governments have quickly accepted as the norm of the modern age.

Prove it.

If you want to know about Scientology many of the online bookstores have used copies of every Scientology book put out by LRH and they cost anywhere from 1 to 5 dollars!

Yes, if you want to know about scientology, here are a few good ones which can be purchased at amazon.

Scientology - Abuse At the Top - Hardcover (May 9, 2010) by Amy Scobee

My Billion Year Contract: Memoir of a Former Scientologist - Paperback (Oct. 26, 2009) by Nancy Many, Chris Many, and Jefferson Hawkins

Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology - Hardcover (Nov. 5, 2009) by Marc Headley

Hollywood, Satanism, Scientology, And Suicide - Paperback (Feb. 3, 2009) by Jerry Staton

Understanding Scientology: The Demon Cult - Paperback (Feb. 24, 2010) by Margery Wakefield

Deceived (One Woman's stand against the Church of Scientology.) - Paperback (June 12, 2009) by Bonnie Woods

The Complex: An Insider Exposes the Covert World of the Church of Scientology - Paperback (Oct. 7, 2008) by John Duignan and Nicola Tallant

The ideals of Scientology can save lives and lead to a better understanding of the needs of the human being and his spirit.

How? Please be specific.

OK, so Scientology sucks

All religions suck

Has any Scientologist been caught young boys?

If some people want to have their religion that is fine by me, I have my own beliefs thank you...

MM

is there any religion where there's not some fantastical tale in it?

I mean speaking as a Christian, can you imagine how comical it sounds that a large invisible person, made the entire universe in 6 days, then pops down and makes a woman out of a guy's spare rib. Then he plants a fruit tree in the middle of this garden he's left them in and tells them don't touch! So it all goes wrong when they both eat some fruit offered to them by a talking snake, and oh yes the guy is omnipotent so should have seen the whole thing from the start.

when you sum it up, all religions, and I do mean ALL religions have some bonkers stuff in it

So Hubbard used planes and hydrogen bombs, is it honestly any better/worse than the others?

Some Creation Stories

OM was originally instigated by Ho Chi Zen, of the Erisian Liberation Front, who is the same person but not the same individual as Lord Omar Khayyam Ravenhurst, author of The Honest Book of Truth. The guiding philosophy is that originally proposed in The Theory of Games and Economic Behavior by von Neumann and Morgenstern: namely, that the only strategy which an opponent cannot predict is a random strategy. The foundation had already been laid by the late Malaclypse the Younger, K.S.C., when he proclaimed, "We Discordians must all stick apart." This radical decentralization of all Discordian enterprises created a built-in random factor even before Operation Mind# was proposed. To this day, neither Ho Chi Zen himself nor any other Discordian apostle knows for sure who is or is not involved in any phase of Operation Mind# or what activities they are or are not involved in as part of that project. Thus, the outsider is immediately trapped in a double-bind: the only safe assumption is that anything a Discordian does is somehow related to OM, but, since this leads directly to paranoia, this is not a "safe" assumption after all, and the "risky" hypothesis that whatever the Discordians are doing is harmless may be "safer" in the long run, perhaps. Every aspect of OM follows, or accentuates, this double-bind.


All Hail Eris..... you know it does/doesn't make sense

Scientology is a dangerous Cult, founded by a somewhat unhinged and awful science fiction writer :-)

reply to post by Shminkee Pinkee


Most religions are after two things: POWER and CONTROL

Scientology just took it a step further and added money