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Roman Church Resurrects Nazi "Final Solution"
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Originally posted by fonenyc
reply to post by Michael Cecil
I do not agree with the Vatican on many things but this is absolutely correct.... biblical claims CANNOT justify the actions in the middle east by any of the opponents... it is sad that scripture is halting peace on earth instead of promoting it... I know that cannot be a loving God's doing... sadly I agree with the globalist elite.... the time for God has passed and now the time for world peace is at hand
It is not the Revelations which are the source of violence and genocide between Jews, Christians and Muslims in the Middle East.
It is, instead, the demonic doctrines and theologies of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religious 'authorities' in contradiction of those Revelations which is the source of such violence and evil.
Michael
reply to post by jheated5
wow good analogy... that is basically what is happening... only God can answer that question lol; see the problem ?
wow good analogy... that is basically what is happening... only God can answer that question lol; see the problem ?
I agree with that... hmmn that answers everything, but the answer doesnt solve anything... I guess it is up to God to intervene.... I do not like this one bit
Originally posted by Michael Cecil
Originally posted by fonenyc
reply to post by Michael Cecil
I do not agree with the Vatican on many things but this is absolutely correct.... biblical claims CANNOT justify the actions in the middle east by any of the opponents... it is sad that scripture is halting peace on earth instead of promoting it... I know that cannot be a loving God's doing... sadly I agree with the globalist elite.... the time for God has passed and now the time for world peace is at hand
It is not the Revelations which are the source of violence and genocide between Jews, Christians and Muslims in the Middle East.
It is, instead, the demonic doctrines and theologies of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religious 'authorities' in contradiction of those Revelations which is the source of such violence and evil.
Michael
Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by snowen20
PS In theological terms, I don't think the statement is a radical departure from what the church has said traditionally. From the Church's viewpoint, "God's people" expanded from the the Jews in the OT to include Gentiles in the NT. And the Church has traditionally re-interpreted the OT "promises" to Israel in more spiritual ways. So the comments are actually consistent with what the Church has been saying before.
It's just that the timing of the declaration is very, very interesting
Of course it is not any radical departure from what the mother of Naziism has been saying for the past 1500 years or so.
That is why I used the word "resurrects".
This kind of doctrine is precisely the doctrine that first led to the Holocaust.
This is merely more of the same.
Michael
reply to post by Michael Cecil
Many of faith, and hopefully it is the majority, actually do live by these revelations. They help each other, seek peace, and live in love. And in their lives, they follow the doctrines and revelations.
But there are others who seek the opposite, and tend toward violence and extremism (whether in terms of religion, political ideology, etc.) Maybe it's just a part of their human nature, or a combination of their human nature and being indoctrinated into a violence that has no place in faith.
Many of faith, and hopefully it is the majority, actually do live by these revelations. They help each other, seek peace, and live in love. And in their lives, they follow the doctrines and revelations.
But there are others who seek the opposite, and tend toward violence and extremism (whether in terms of religion, political ideology, etc.) Maybe it's just a part of their human nature, or a combination of their human nature and being indoctrinated into a violence that has no place in faith.
edit on 23-10-2010 by Ariel because: (no reason given)
edit on 23-10-2010 by Ariel because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Michael Cecil
In contradiction of the Revelations in the Torah; in contradiction of the Revelations received by Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel and Zechariah; in contradiction of the Gospels; and in contradiction of the Revelations received by Mohammed and conveyed in the Quran; the Roman church is now saying that the Jews are not the “Chosen people”:
www.ynetnews.com...
This assertion, effectively, resurrects the “Final Solution” of the Nazis; this time applying that “Final Solution” the conflict over Jerusalem.
This will not succeed.
Michael
The Catholic Church and Christians in general believe that the Jews were chosen, but that Christians are the fulfillment of that choice. Christians believe that in order to be saved, one must accept Jesus as their savior. The current Jews are those who have not accepted Jesus as their savior.
Originally posted by jheated5
reply to post by Michael Cecil
Let's have a jew come into your house and hold you at gunpoint and say get the heck out because I own this house now.... You say I'll see you in court buddy and he just laughs at you, you go into the courtroom and the judge says yup it's his house now he's one of god's chosen people it says right here, that would be no problem for you because it says it in the good book right?
Read the article.
Even the article affirms that the Revelations cannot be used to justify injustices against the Palestinians.
This is one of the principal problems with the entire Zionist enterprise: the expropriation of Revelations for the purpose of proliferating EVIL in the world.
In any case, this is not in any way the purpose of that Revelation in the first place.
Michael
I think the article shows the church being rather pragmatic.
I don't get into the religious stuff so I don't believe there are any "chosen" people. When these books were written, the world was a smaller place. I doubt the Jews knew there were Indians a half world away, as an example. So, in that region, there were warring tribes, and they all they thought they were the best(chosen). They had beliefs(religion), there were prophets, they wrote books, and those specific books were preserved, and now we cling to those fights, which we probably should not. They were era specific. They have historical significance, and deliver some good messages, but we should not be running our world based on them, in my opinion.
I don't get into the religious stuff so I don't believe there are any "chosen" people. When these books were written, the world was a smaller place. I doubt the Jews knew there were Indians a half world away, as an example. So, in that region, there were warring tribes, and they all they thought they were the best(chosen). They had beliefs(religion), there were prophets, they wrote books, and those specific books were preserved, and now we cling to those fights, which we probably should not. They were era specific. They have historical significance, and deliver some good messages, but we should not be running our world based on them, in my opinion.
Originally posted by Ariel
reply to post by Michael Cecil
Many of faith, and hopefully it is the majority, actually do live by these revelations.
Really?
Do they understand and believe that the Doctrine of "resurrection" taught by Isaiah, Daniel, Jesus and Mohammed and implied in the Torah is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'?
Millions of Jews and hundreds of millions of Christians and Muslims have no such understanding and no such belief at all.
Michael
Originally posted by IamCorrect
The Catholic Church and Christians in general believe that the Jews were chosen, but that Christians are the fulfillment of that choice. Christians believe that in order to be saved, one must accept Jesus as their savior. The current Jews are those who have not accepted Jesus as their savior.
Well, you have the floridly anti-Semitic doctrine down perfectly...
The question being whether, in your previous life, you were actually a Nazi or not.
Michael
reply to post by Michael Cecil
Disagreement on matters of doctrine is another issue. I was reacting before to the sentiment that religion promotes violence, which I must have misread into what you were saying before by your talking about "satanic docrine". Maybe my mind went to that interpretation because I keep coming across people blaming religion for violence.
Anyway. So, this is a totally different, and quite interesting topic. You're talking about reincarnation? I have no idea what the Muslim faith has to say about it. I thought I'd heard that Jews believed in it, and that originally the early Christians did as well. Certainly there are many who don't believe in it, but then, there are so many of these things we're just not going to know during this lifetime but will find out for certain afterward!
Disagreement on matters of doctrine is another issue. I was reacting before to the sentiment that religion promotes violence, which I must have misread into what you were saying before by your talking about "satanic docrine". Maybe my mind went to that interpretation because I keep coming across people blaming religion for violence.
Anyway. So, this is a totally different, and quite interesting topic. You're talking about reincarnation? I have no idea what the Muslim faith has to say about it. I thought I'd heard that Jews believed in it, and that originally the early Christians did as well. Certainly there are many who don't believe in it, but then, there are so many of these things we're just not going to know during this lifetime but will find out for certain afterward!
When are people going to understand that the term JEW is not a kind, the JEW is a term, a definition for someone, it's not a race of people, it's just
a fairth like christianity or islam or budism.
The jew in general is the persecuted one, it can be black white chinese and so on.
Now are we talking about israelites, latins, blacks, whites ? or jews as in an individual that does stuff on his own ?
The jew is the little guy that is not left alone, always on the run, persecuted by these people that impose their rule by force, that is the real jew, a jew can be from any nation. The jew is the individual, just my opinion.
I see these people are obsessed with order, what the hell is wrong with this people. They are like robots.
Live like we tell you, walk like we tell you.
The jew in general is the persecuted one, it can be black white chinese and so on.
Now are we talking about israelites, latins, blacks, whites ? or jews as in an individual that does stuff on his own ?
The jew is the little guy that is not left alone, always on the run, persecuted by these people that impose their rule by force, that is the real jew, a jew can be from any nation. The jew is the individual, just my opinion.
I see these people are obsessed with order, what the hell is wrong with this people. They are like robots.
Live like we tell you, walk like we tell you.
edit on 23-10-2010 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)
I think the whole thing is stupid.
Ok there's a rock there. That rock is the center of the world or some crap.
Science teaches us now that we are all the center - each point is the center.
I wish someone would just blow that rock up and then nothing would happen and maybe people would see that we are all holy, that all land is holy and can be sacred if we decide it is.
I'm glad I am pagan so I don't even have to PRETEND I am interested in Jerusalem.
I agree with the pope on this one. (Helen Thomas too)
Ok there's a rock there. That rock is the center of the world or some crap.
Science teaches us now that we are all the center - each point is the center.
I wish someone would just blow that rock up and then nothing would happen and maybe people would see that we are all holy, that all land is holy and can be sacred if we decide it is.
I'm glad I am pagan so I don't even have to PRETEND I am interested in Jerusalem.
I agree with the pope on this one. (Helen Thomas too)
Originally posted by Ariel
reply to post by Michael Cecil
Disagreement on matters of doctrine is another issue.
Please understand that R. Ovadiah Yosef was advancing as a DOCTRINE that Gentiles are nothing more than donkeys.
You're talking about reincarnation?
The correct term is "resurrection".
I have no idea what the Muslim faith has to say about it.
Precisely the same as the Pharisaical Jews and Christians.
I thought I'd heard that Jews believed in it,
Typically, it has a racist interpretation: Jews are the only true humans; and, thus, they will be raised from the dead as Jews for all time; whereas Gentiles have a 'soul' which is, of course, no better than a donkey; and, thus, will always be 'raised from the dead' as Gentiles.
and that originally the early Christians did as well.
Christians never did.
Those that believe the Teaching of Jesus about the Doctrine of "resurrection" were termed "Gnostics".
The Pauline Christians termed the "Gnostics" heretics.
Certainly there are many who don't believe in it, but then, there are so many of these things we're just not going to know during this lifetime but will find out for certain afterward!
The only "afterward" in which one can receive such knowledge is in one's next life.
Michael
Originally posted by hadriana
I think the whole thing is stupid.
It is irrelevant whether it is stupid or not.
Assume that it is an argument over the color of tiddly-winks.
But these people are so stupid that they are willing to start a nuclear war over the disagreement over the color of tiddly-winks.
All of a sudden, the color of tiddly-winks--which I really do not care about at all--becomes important to me because there will be extremely negative consequences if a nuclear war erupts over such an issue...
STUPID OR NOT.
Michael
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
The 70 weeks ended 3.5 years after the death of Christ, and fulfilled Gods covenant with the Jewish people:
Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
It was only Gods promise to his chosen people to bring about the Messiah through their bloodline, which he fulfilled. At that point the “Age of the Jews” ended and the “Age of the Church” began. The only chosen Jewish people after that point, are ones who embraced Christ and became Christians. This is shown in the "First Fruits" or 144,000 mentioned in Revelation.
Any interpretation of end time prophecy that claims that there is a requirement for a rebuilt Jewish temple in the end times, or that the last week of Daniel is cut off to a future point in time, comes from Futurism; a school of prophecy brought about by the Jesuit Order as part of the Counter Reformation, and supported by Zionists because it helps fulfill their ultimate goals of retaking Israel.
There is no longer a need for a Jewish Temple, and God will not accept animal sacrifices made at that temple anyway, as his son made a sacrifice that is far superior to any that were enacted on the temple mount by man. That is what Daniel means when it states this:
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one
week; But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
For 7 years Christ would confirm the covenant of God with the Jewish people that God would send them a savior, but in the middle of that 7 years (3.5 years into his ministry) Christ would be cut off (put to death). His death being the ultimate sacrifice that would replace the temples animal sacrifice and bring and end to it. This is further mentioned in Luke:
And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
So at the time of Christ death the temple veil that separated the Holy of Holies from the rest of the world was torn in half. The veil was only entered into once a year by the high priest to drip sacrificial blood on the mercy seat of the arc of the covenant for forgiveness of Israels sins. Now that was no longer needed or accepted by God as necessary.
This:
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
and this:
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.
Are speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD by the Romans, the finial punishment on those who rejected the Messiah that God had sent them in fulfillment of his covenant with them. Much of what currant Christians, who follow futurism, attribute to the end times, actually was about the “End of and Age”, specifically the end of the “Age of the Jews” or the destruction of Jerusalem.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
Originally posted by defcon5
It was only Gods promise to his chosen people to bring about the Messiah through their bloodline, which he fulfilled. At that point the “Age of the Jews” ended and the “Age of the Church” began. The only chosen Jewish people after that point, are ones who embraced Christ and became Christians.
I understand what you are saying.
The term for it is "Naziism".
And, just because I affirm that the Jews are still the "Chosen people"--as does the Quran--does NOT mean that I am a Zionist.
The secular doctrines of both Zionism and Naziism originate in precisely the same theological error: the denial of the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection" as being a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.
Michael
reply to post by Michael Cecil
The offspring of Abraham were God's chosen people.
Through them the Messiah would come.
The nation of Israel had a covenant relationship with God.
As long as they obeyed God they were invincible as a nation. They were repeatedly warned not to make alliances with other nations.
According to scripture, Israel continually followed pagan gods and were punished. Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylon in 607 B.C.E.. There captivity was prophesied. After 70 years Nehemiah returned from exile with the Israelites to rebuild the Temple.
In 70 C.E. the Romans Destroyed the Jerusalem and the temple again.
Why?
If Israel is God's chosen people and nation.
They would install a king that would be a descendant of David and the tribe of Judah.
They would rebuild the Temple and re-institute the priesthood and perform animal sacrifice.
They would not ally themselves with other nations.
They would be looking for the Messiah, who's lineage would have to be traced back to King David.
The offspring of Abraham were God's chosen people.
Through them the Messiah would come.
The nation of Israel had a covenant relationship with God.
As long as they obeyed God they were invincible as a nation. They were repeatedly warned not to make alliances with other nations.
According to scripture, Israel continually followed pagan gods and were punished. Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylon in 607 B.C.E.. There captivity was prophesied. After 70 years Nehemiah returned from exile with the Israelites to rebuild the Temple.
In 70 C.E. the Romans Destroyed the Jerusalem and the temple again.
Why?
If Israel is God's chosen people and nation.
They would install a king that would be a descendant of David and the tribe of Judah.
They would rebuild the Temple and re-institute the priesthood and perform animal sacrifice.
They would not ally themselves with other nations.
They would be looking for the Messiah, who's lineage would have to be traced back to King David.
Originally posted by Michael Cecil
Please understand that R. Ovadiah Yosef was advancing as a DOCTRINE that Gentiles are nothing more than donkeys.
Yes, that would definitely qualify as satanic, as would any so-called "doctrine" promoting the demeaning of human dignity.
Typically, it has a racist interpretation: Jews are the only true humans; and, thus, they will be raised from the dead as Jews for all time; whereas Gentiles have a 'soul' which is, of course, no better than a donkey; and, thus, will always be 'raised from the dead' as Gentiles.
That is quite racist, and it's something I've never heard before. Unbelievable how the radical extremists who have such a view fail to realize that this is exactly the same sort of thinking that leads to massacres like the Holocaust.
The only "afterward" in which one can receive such knowledge is in one's next life.
There would be little point of that without at least a period between lives to reflect on the experience and lessons learned, etc. and prepare for the next one. Honestly, just as we need rest at night or we don't function well, how in the world would we function without having some time to rest and recuperate between lives! Even in the best of lives, we go through far too much to just be thrown immediately upon death into the next body with absolutely nothing in between. And no end to the cycle in sight? No ultimate reunion with God?
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Originally posted by Michael Cecil
I understand what you are saying.
The term for it is "Naziism".
I recommend that you do some additional research before falsely labeling people like that, because what I am speaking of is actually called Historicism and it the original school of prophecy that all protestant faiths are supposed to believe and teach. They all originally did so, which is why the Vatican came up with the competing schools known as Preterism and Futurism during the Counter Reformation.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
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