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originally posted by: sy.gunson
reply to post by mad scientist
No it is not completely backward at all...your understanding is.
You are trying to compare yourr flawed understanding of postwar H-bomb methodology with the Schumann Trinks concept. Another name for the Schumann Trinks weapon is Plasma Pinch ignition which is a concept the Manhattan Project was also aware of in 1942.
Fusion is created by causing a deuteron beam (X-rays) external to the fissile target (Uranium).
To create a Deuteron beam (X-rays) you have to collide a stream of molten Lithium-6 with Deuterium. The collision strips electrons from the Lithium and creates a powerful electrical charge called a Plasma. This Plasma then excites the discharge of neutrons from the Deuterium through collision of Protons with other Protons.
The condition requires Lithium above temperatures of 800 degrees Celsius to collide with Deuterium at pressures of at least 100,000 atmospheres.
The Nazis figured in a series of experiments from 1941 by Dr Otto Haxel and then from 1942-43 by Schumann & Trinks how to focus a supersonic jet of molten Lithium onto a Uranium 233 target, coated with Lithium Deuteride.
They did this with two opposed Hollow Charge (shaped charge) explosives with conical Lithium-6 liners. When detonated the molten lithium was heated in an instant to 24,000 degrees C and the Uranium target was compressed by 100,000 atmospheres. The Lithium atoms collided with Deuterium atoms at 11 kilometres per second causing a flash of X-rays. These excited the emission of neutrons from the Deuterium. The highly localised neutron flux exceeded the neutron flux required in a critical mass of uranium to caused detonation.
Furthermore returning to your original point modern H-bombs begin as you say with small atomic weapons, but just how do you think they trigger those small A-bombs?
They are not 64 kilograms of Uranium (critical mass) or 4.5kg-9kg of Plutonium either being carted around in Trident missiles. They are miniature pellets of Plutonium coated with Scandium-Trittide ignited in a Plasma pinch by an X-ray laser to cause exactly the same kind of fusion ignited fissile weapon as developed by the Nazis in 1943...only difference is instead of hollow charge explosives, now they just fire X-rays from a charged klystron tube at the target (ie X-ray machine)
Duh - modern nuclear weapons are today ignited by the same process only the method has altered due to technological improvement.
originally posted by: Aleister
I haven't read the whole thread. Does anyone know if Otto Hahn was involved in this. Hahn was credited with much of the research into nuclear fission, and was in Germany during the war. Thanks.
originally posted by: HattoriHanzou
reply to post by hellobruce
How would you even know what ignorance is? Clearly you are averse to any investigation of the historical record.
The fact is that, since the early 1950s there have been reports of Japanese and German nuclear bomb tests. Eyewitnesses have come forward, the materials and scientists were requisitioned, etc. Whether or not the bombs were actually tested is of course up in the air, but it is not beyond plausibility.
Revision of history is necessary if ou want to treat the subject more like a science and less like a loose packet of fairy tales. Of course, admitting to yourself that you swallowed the pack of lies disguised as history involves swallowing your pride, first. Many, seemingly including you, don't have the balls to do this, but let me ask again - why are you here? You are prolific and your entire overarching theme seems to be "trust the man and go back to sleep." A very strange message for this place. As I suggested, maybe you are lost and ou think this is MSNBC or Huffington Post or Jezebel? HBGary in the house.
originally posted by: hellobruce
Very true, like some people claiming Germany and Japan had the capability to develop a nuclear bomb..... very silly indeed!
originally posted by: deessell
I think it's definitely possible that the US claimed much of the Nazi' research at the end of the war, just as it is believed that General MacArthur claimed all the medical research that the Japanese has conducted on the Chinese in Unit 731. This was in exchange for impunity from war crimes.
originally posted by: buddhasystem
Fissile materials are of course necessary for being able to build a nuke. However, they are completely useless unless you create a vast infrastructure to convert them into weapon-grade fuel. As you know, there are two primary ways to go about that:
a) Uranium enrichment to separate U-235
b) Making plutonium-239
Either of this requires vast infrastructure and build-up, and it's pretty impossible that any of the facilities needed would have just disappeared after WWII. The former usually requires tremendous bank of centrifuges, the latter a decent nuclear reactor and sophisticated refinement facilities.
Ironically, Germans used a lot of uranium for armor-piercing shells in WWII.
Whether they managed to build one will probably never be known
It may never be known whether your liver is receiving signals from a distant neutron star, on a subspace frequency, and dictates to you what to write on ATS. However, my opinion is that it's pretty freaking impossible.
originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
reply to post by HattoriHanzou
Progress that left no footprint at all??? No paper chain at all, no evidence, no eyewitness and no physical proof. This is getting ridiculous. The V-weapons used up a fraction of the resources that a fully-funded and successful Nazi nuclear programme would have used. The former was detected via Enigma decrypts and other intelligence years before the first V-1 or V-2 was launched. No sign at all of the latter. I wonder why?
originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: williamjpellas
So you want to use a more compliicated procedure as alternatives? Yeah that makes sense Germany was incapable of developing an atomic bomb during World War II. They did not have the people. They did not have the cooperation among the people they did have. They did not have the money. They did not have the laboratory or factory space.
They were also heading down the wrong track trying to use heavy water as a regulator. Beyond the tangible reasons that the German effort never succeeded, the personalities of the German scientists inhibited their efforts. They did not work together its scientist had their projects and would not share their work with others. If you believe Heisenberg german physists were directly working against creating a bomb. And there is some evidence to support this. As documents were found with incorrect math. And other documents showed plans that any pLike the one they showed of the german nuclear bomb it would not have created an atomic blast. Creating the pressures involved is not an easy task you just cant slam radioactive material together and get a blast.
With the bombing of the heavy water facility in Norway that effectively ended any possibility of Germany producing a bomb.
originally posted by: hellobruce
No, there is not - just claims that there is "evidence" but when that "evidence" is examined it turns out is is just silly claims not based on any fact. - Just look at some reviews of that "evidence"
A close examination by myself and other historians of the Manhattan Project have found many of the claims in Mr. Hydrick's book to be without foundation. The main argument that captured German uranium taken from U-Boat 134 in May of 1945 ended up in the Little Boy bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima never happened. The best evidence to prove the case comes from General Leslie R. Groves' Appointment Book of August 13, 1945 (a week after Hiroshima) where in a telephone call a Navy admiral asks if the material from the German submarine was of any use to the program. General Groves "advised it wasn't as yet but it will be utilized." This would seem to undermine the major claim of the book.
and
The linchpin of Hydrick's convoluted theories about the bombs involves his claim that the infra-red detonators that came from the U-234 German submarine were used in the implosion device. He describes the "detonator chimneys" that Russ mentioned in his book along with the use of "hypodermics" to vent radiation from the plutonium core and that somehow these were used to "allow the free flow of light waves throughout the device." He continues, "...the new system allowed waves-including infrared waves-to race at the speed of light through the "detonator chimneys" and "hypodermics" to the other infrared fuses to "simultaneously" ignite them all" and these all "...were used to compress the plutonium core at the speed of light and thus creating a very powerful explosion." This is absolute nonsense and shows a complete lack of even the most basic knowledge of how these weapons functioned, or for that matter, even a rudimentary knowledge of physics itself!
The "detonator chimneys" as Russ described them, were actually nothing other than small lengths of brass tubing that were glued to the outer surface of each explosive lens in the implosion device. Each of the 32 Model 1773 Exploding Bridge Wire (EBW) detonators was then inserted into a chimney since the sole purpose of these were simply to properly align each EBW in the exact center of the outer surface of each lens. The "hypodermics" mentioned by Hydrick had a completely different, and equally benign, purpose. The stainless steel hypodermic tube was carefully inserted through a hole in the outer Dural shell that housed the implosion components and then pushed down far enough in between the lenses and the inner explosive charges so that it touched the so-called "nuclear pit" at the very center of the implosion device. A 0.040 inch diameter manganese wire was then inserted into this hypodermic tube and withdrawn every six hours to check to see if it had acquired any induced radioactivity. If it had acquired any, this meant that the delicate and tiny Polonium-Beryllium initiator ("Urchin") inside the center of the plutonium core had somehow ruptured due to rough handling during the assembly process and was emitting neutrons which would cause the plutonium to pre-detonate resulting in a fizzle, or failure of the implosion process.
www.amazon.com...=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R390K0OZ3WLJS2
originally posted by: HattoriHanzou
reply to post by sy.gunson
I haven't heard about activities at Konan, I was under the impression that the Japanese nuclear program was centered around the Riken facilities.
Could you please provide some further information about Konan so that I could read more about it?
originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
I'm sorry, but if you think that the nation that committed mass-murder on an industrial scale was afraid of world opinion you have another think coming.If Germany had had the bomb Hitler would have used it, especially at the end of the war when Hitler no longer gave a damn about anything at all.
Anyway, this is besides the point. There is still no evidence, at all - other than in conspiracy theories and books based on speculation and hearsay - that the Germans built the Bomb.
originally posted by: alldaylong
Originally posted by babybunnies
Almost the entire AMERICAN nuclear and rocket programs were headed by German scientists, who were decades ahead of their time both in terms of nuclear technology and rocket science.
Many of the principle doctrines of physics that we still use today come from physicists who were trained in German Universities in the first couple of decades of the 20th century.
"But our Germans are better than their (the Russians) Germans" - The Right Stuff.
If you had bothered to read my post earlier in this topic you would have seen that The Germans where not "Decades Ahead" in nuclear technology. The lead country during that time was Great Britain. The Americans could not have built the bomb without the aid of Britain (and also Canada)
I will post the information again so you can read it this time:-
en.wikipedia.org...
Anti-American British revisionism is so tiresome.
The British Empire was the first nation to seriously investigate nuclear explosives.
The Bomb was not an American invention; use of the new weapon required approval from Britain, its co-inventor.
originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: williamjpellas
It would not have worked the detonators were one of 3 problems they had to solve. The three main challenges of the implosion design were: generating enough pressure to compress the plutonium, perfecting the timing of the detonators, and achieving a symmetrical implosion.
So will start with the detonators special spark-free detonators called Exploding Bridgewire Detonators (EBWs) were used. EBWs used electrical discharge from a connected powerful capacitator to vaporize their bridge wire. This vaporization produced a small shock wave that detonated the explosive lenses around the detonators. In early 1944, the South Mesa detonator group led by physicist Luis Alvarez began a trial and error process of developing the detonators. The proper combination of bridge wire lengths, diameters, and materials for the detonators was not determined until just a few weeks before the Trinity Test. In order to ignite the detonators in a precise manner, a high-voltage electrical system was required. A main feature of the fireset apparatus was the Spark Gap Switch. Physicist Donald Hornig invented the Spark Gap Switch used for the implosion bombs.
You can see them here
www.lanl.gov...
The greatest challenge for the Los Alamos scientists and engineers was developing and refining the explosive lenses for the implosion bomb. The lenses had to be identical yet cover the sphere. In order to achieve the spherical implosion shockwave, all the explosive lenses needed to ignite at the same time, which is why the detonators needed to fire simultaneously.
Considering that little was known about using high explosives to produce imploding shock waves and even less about shaping and arranging explosives for controlled, predictable waves, the lenses developed by Kistiakowsky and the X (Explosives) Division was a major innovation this is the soccer ball design you see in pictures. They basically invented RDX for this project as the explosive had to react quickly.
So no German anything was used to design the bomb any one that makes that claim is trying to mislead you.