*The Impersonal Life* ...of IAM

reply to post by NorEaster

As I stated, the presented God contradicts the God who shows up when its impact is examined. And this contradiction is profound. Too profound to be reasonably plausible.

The one that you THINK showed up, is a illusion, and effect, and we, the cause ...what we think, we create.

We can THINK that there seems to be a 'evil' god....but that doesnt make it so.

What seems to show up, is a distorted creation of man. All cultures have done this, and this still, has its place, in our discoveries of our true self, as one.

The one that seemingly showed up, helps us sift out what one truly is and is not.

There was only ONE that always was and is....the other only 'seems' to be. In true self, it doesnt even exist. Only in this phase of souls existence and experience, does it seem to be there or ever was there. A way for man to explain what it doesnt understand...is all that it is (the god you 'think' showed up that is).

We are constantly creating distorted views of IAM> But, this is needed. Many paths that are not...lead us to the road that is.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by NorEaster

 

As I stated, the presented God contradicts the God who shows up when its impact is examined. And this contradiction is profound. Too profound to be reasonably plausible.

The one that you THINK showed up, is a illusion, and effect, and we, the cause ...what we think, we create.

We can THINK that there seems to be a 'evil' god....but that doesnt make it so.

What seems to show up, is a distorted creation of man. All cultures have done this, and this still, has its place, in our discoveries of our true self, as one.

The one that seemingly showed up, helps us sift out what one truly is and is not.

There was only ONE that always was and is....the other only 'seems' to be. In true self, it doesnt even exist. Only in this phase of souls existence and experience, does it seem to be there or ever was there. A way for man to explain what it doesnt understand...is all that it is (the god you 'think' showed up that is).

We are constantly creating distorted views of IAM> But, this is needed. Many paths that are not...lead us to the road that is.

edit on 16-10-2010 by LeoVirgo because: (no reason given)

Okay, then God didn't design physical existence then.



We may just have a point here that we agree on.

reply to post by bogomil

Oh darn it; brethren and sistren, I have been temporally displaced. Again. I got lost in between the nows, and chose the wrong metaphor. So like a whirling dervish, a mad linguist or a primal-screamer suffering from excessive oxygen, I'll try another outlet.

Language, our slave and our master, our freedom and our prison, our.....sorry, got carried away......anyway, the art of trying to describe the greater by the smaller. An arbitrarily chosen turtle, much in vogue these days, in this now: Labelling.

Its possible, that its our consciousness that is being shackled, with continual bombardment, and various controllers vying for that control.

Are you also saying that its the sound vibrations, the creational harmonics, the "magic" of our words, that also can hold us down or free us?

Funny things happen in the strangest of ways. This truly is a magical existence.

In 2001 I was separated from my daughter due to the 9-11 incident. I searched for her often to no avail. So much has happened since then, so much necessary growth to be able to accept things as they are, and let God drive the bus. So many treasures have I found since doing so, I do not even know where to begin. I gave up everything I owned not long ago in submission to God's plan. I picked up and relocated with just my dog and some clothes. No money, and no possessions. I went where the good lord told me to go.

Today, I found my daughter. She is in the town I went to.

Words cannot describe the power, the love, of submitting to God.

I am humbled every day.

I'd say more, but words fail me.

With Love,

Your Brother

Hi Leo,

you wrote:

"The one that you THINK showed up, is a illusion, and effect, and we, the cause ...what we think, we create."

There's strong reason to believe, that the universe is rather uniform. I.e. only with small local variations of the basic 'natural laws'. But even if we're only talking about the planet we live on, the patterns presented in the subatomic world, the molecular world and further on to complexity are the same.

If these patterns are influenced by human observation (and please don't carry the observer-created universe hypothesis too far..that's a new-age myth), there would be a break in the physical, geological or biological patterns, when mankind turned up on the scene. There don't seem to be.

Ofcourse unless you mean we carry it all around in our heads. So that when I say: "This is water" and you say: "This is stone", it's only because of cosmic conditioning we disagree. Or that some people fall downwards from a mountain, while other fall upwards. This is pure solipsism, and is totally meaningless.

And in the context of 'suffering', an important point in most religion and philosophy, this existed a long time before mankind, and I'm sure the primates and other animals existing then, experiencing pain etc. didn't 'invent' a cosmic force or entity to explain it. Nonetheless they did experience pain because of the less attractive part of existence. Predation.

So who are the 'we' you talk about? It must by necessity include non-human complexities.

And as NorEaster said, the cosmic results of its architect are observable, and can to some degree give some hints as to him/her/it, while a possible entity, being at ultimate reality, is far beyond the reach of human experience or comprehension. Even through the use of epinoia.

In all respect, you postulate means, ways and motives, which in no way can be approached except through guesses.

Re Unity_99

I'm trying to pinpoint the origin of illusion/duality. And as I said in my post above, cosmos was dualistic long time before any complexity (e.g. biological life) turned up to 'observe' it.

So either cosmos is intrinsically dualistic or possibly its architect is.

As to language, my main concern is, that it apart from a convenient way of giving, transferring, storing or recieving information, also increasingly is getting a life of its own. No longer only describing things which exist (insofar as anything exists), but also creating an imaginary existence of things NOT existing.

I can e.g. talk about the famous Mars-flower, and its fantastic medical or hallucinogenic effects, and if this caught on, the web would be filled with conspiracy theories about NASA actually owning such flowers, but keeping them for the world elite alone. (Take a look at 'Ong's hat', one of the most charming social experiments ever made).

Or to take an example relevant to the idea of 'observer created reality'. A lot of people use this hypothesis in a very sweeping way, probably believing, that it's some kind of accepted scientific concept. The truth is, that this hypothesis is very restricted in its scope, that no decent scientist would touch it with a ten feet pole in its new-age version, and that a lot of fanciful 'theories' are 'proved' on this new-age fantasy.

It's all a question of semantics.

Hi IAM

no matter your theological implications, I can understand how happy you must be. My warmfelt congratulations.

Re NorEaster

you wrote:

"So much perfect symmetry with a complete and overwhelming contradiction as the end result."

It's not, that I want to take a single sentence out of context and start a nitpicking analysis of it. It's rather that this sentence is the essense of what your posts are about.

You see, cosmos is NOT in perfect symmetry. It's the slightest bit a-symmetrical. And the best argument for this is, that cosmos does exist. A perfect symmetry would lead to all dualistic polarities cancelling each other out, a kind of super-enthropy. Even a just static cosmos wouldn't be possible (and we know cosmos is far from static in any case).

This slight a-symmetry is part of the original construction, and is the reason for dualism. The fragments will stay fragments as long as they can't harmonize in a total balance.

reply to post by IAMIAM




As often as the world seems to just 'to and fro' in its own chaos, so often I have to pay attention to what other would call 'happenstance'.

Im so very happy for you, what an amazing thing for you and your daughter!

I would love to know all the how's where's and why's if you ever want to just babble...u2u is always open

reply to post by bogomil


Hello bogomil

You have brought great thought provoking thoughts to the thread, I thank you for being you.

I understand this perspective, I do.

Who is to say, that the things we observe, were not purposely placed how they are to effect us (instead of us, the observers seemingly, to effect it)?

So true, duality, as long as there is a world of matter forming and being (seemingly)...was here in the cosmos. Before we, as beings, could of 'observed' it and labeled it as 'duality' what purpose could there of been for it besides energy breaking down and reforming again, and again.

Could it not be, that this 'god' people want to speak of, is not so much an entity, but a energy that is within all life...and what we think of as 'life' to be a matter that is alive or a organism or a cell that 'holds life'....could be our own limited understanding of what 'true life' is. Beyond our comprehension, then it would be yes, certainly.

As much as we see this world that is all based on the same design from little things to big....we can feel it, observe it, touch it, taste it, ect.....I can not say that I understand the things that I have witnessed beyond our laws. I can not say for sure that watching my mother climb a tree as she laid in a bed with kidney failure, really did not exists in some state of being. I can not say that my son who claims to of had a light being come to him at age 5...did not exists in some way beyond the laws that we understand. I can not say that watching someone move an object before my eyes while my mind said 'no, its not real', did not exists in some way. I can not say, that when my family was getting confused while seeing a 'form of me' in my house, besides ME....that this was like you said 'all in our minds'. So I can not say, all things are bound to the laws we thing we know, or the design we thing we know, or the purpose we think we know.

Yes, it may indeed be beyond our comprehension....but I feel that while we 'dont know' we sometimes do seem to know, there is something more to this.

On the talk of gnostic...good god and bad god. When I said 'we' I was referring to the human perception of the world. We see things as bad and good....while in Spirit....these things may all be of equal importance for this seemingly, emanation of existence. Just another way that man personified the world around him/her....a way to start to sort out, what we see, as duality. A way to start labeling things. A way to start 'weighing and sifting' their own self amongst the world.

But what if duality, is not really a duality at all. What if its all perfect in its emanation of each other. What if the bursting of a planet is just as important as the forming of one. Just the same as a birth, being just as important as the death or vice versa. Before humans, this could of been just as important and after humans, no more important then it was before.

Who is to say, in Spirit, processes must 'flow' and must 'be'. As much as people use the word 'creator' or created....I think its more 'emanated' or emanator....something that 'just is' and 'just does' which leads us to the 'impersonal life'. Through a conscious being like man, it not only 'is'.....it 'sees' itself, it 'knows' itself' it becomes 'personal' to itself. It may all be, for just a split moment, to 'awaken' and then only to again sleep. I do not know.

I think 'life, spirit, this 'god'....is very quantum in its 'emanation' and 'being'. There may be a quantum level that we cant see, that we can touch, that we cant know of while in this 'material body'. It may be just as important for the spirit of life to be in the bird, not knowing any values but only knowing 'being' as it is for life to become consciousness for a brief time. I for one, do not find 'humans' as higher then any other form of life. I find them all of equal, to life, spirit, 'being'.

My words are not as nicely written as your and your use of vocab by far....but I am loving the challenging thoughts. If anything, I love things and people that make me think.

Do you believe in 'ghosts'? Do you believe in a world that we cant see? Do you believe in energy connections between all life? I guess these are the personal questions that arise in me while reading your wonderful thoughts.

So many things have happened to me, that causes me to 'look beyond' our laws, our understandings, our limits of our eyes, ears, hands, mouth, and nose.

To me, in this great design of what we call duality, I see things of matter and within them, a spirit of life. I see constant cycling and constant order with these cycles. We can wonder what use a Sun has light years away from us if it does not have a planet with life to keep warm and help grow...but we cant imagine what stability this may be providing the 'energy of spirit' in the 'unseen' world.

Fantasy....? It may seem that way to many. Much of this may be aimless babble to you...and you can let me know if that is what it sounds like by all means.

My best
LV

reply to post by bogomil


The observer affect is also supported by the pixels they found in this system. The findings are in full support of the holographic universe. Sound, vibrations, are creational as well. Some things you have to be your own detective for and search for on your own. For example, one day, when I was feeling inspired, and the sky was very odd, a strange violent stormy pink with an overlaying sheet of dark clouds moving swiftly. I just stood at the door thinking, Now that won't do at all! And I insisted that pink hearts would fill the sky. For 20 minutes roughly I focused intently on creating them out of clouds. That didn't work so I went inside and made a pot of coffee. About 20 minutes later I was at the door again and what I saw, I've never seen in my life. The sky was filled with hearts, and abstracted hearts, partly broken hearts, white hearts, and pink hearts. There were no black ones, and the black sheets were all gone.

As to the Mars flower, I don't know exactly what this means, but, it seems to me its a blue color, and surely its underground here as well.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Will do, hopefully I can get round to it sometime.

2nd

Just wanted to sum up something of why finding these writings meant so much to me.

When one finds something 'familiar' to them, its like finding another self to them. Through all my seeking and guidance within...and then to find, someone discovered all of this and was able to put it so well in writing, years ago before I was even born...brings a oneness to me, with a fellow being, be whomever it was who wrote it, it brought me familiarity, a sense of my own self, within another being.

In the last few years, my ideas of a soul mate changed from not seeking another person anymore for that perfect match, for there can be no more a perfect match then the Spirit, for my soul. In the writings, it was like feeling that 'match' or when we meet another who is on the same path and line of thinking, they too give that familiarity, reminding us, we are not alone, the path though it seems like something of 'only the self' is not. When we see another on the same path and finding the same discoveries, there is reassurance, of the oneness within you that you see in them.

Seeing the God within you, in another, is one of the most beautiful things one can experience. Ive been blessed enough to not only find it in these writings, that my guidance was not something only I have witnessed and discovered, but also through a few other people in this world....and this, gives me much peace, and allows me to see the Spirit that is within me, in another.

These writings may not be for all on their path....but for me, they brought much needed....harmony. With the help of another, this is what I discovered was so beautiful about finding others that discover the same things.....a sense of 'harmony'.

Isnt that what we all seek...when we hear a song we just are familiar with even if its the first time we heard it, we feel harmony between the self and the song....or a great poem that you can relate to every word, as if it describes your very feelings and thoughts....it brings your self a harmony with that poem....or even when a smile and eyes meet one another, and that connections happens between two beings...a sense of harmony occurs, and for that moment, you can feel, perfection.

There is another thread going on that I just now paid attention to called 'Hi, Im God, how are you'.

Before, even though I do see the Spirit in every person, I could not of really related to such a thread. Course I do have a little small issue with the 'hi, I am God' part.....I would of related to it better with it saying 'Hi, I am God, and so are you'.

My best to all....just wanted to sum that up, why it all meant so much to me....it reminds me, even though with Spirit Im not alone....that Im not alone in 'self' for others have found the same path I have found, not that its right or wrong, but its right for me, for the moment.

I also had to come to the understanding, why others are not reading it. And that is ok...but if people are not really going to read it in full....what is there to talk about here anyways.

Thanks to all for the great thoughts!
LV

Re Leo

You wrote:

"Who is to say, that the things we observe, were not purposely placed how they are to effect us (instead of us, the observers seemingly, to effect it)?"

True. Who is to say anything about anything (no offense). That's why mankind has developed methods for examining existence with the possibility of finding regular patterns, as e.g. 'natural laws'. Phenomena outside the scope of present science also requires some examination, experimentation etc to validate themselves, and such methods do exist to a certain extent; and can without doubt be advanced considerably, if the interest existed. Though I can't see any ultimate-truth-finding-methods at the immediate horizon.

I'm all for metaphysics myself, which means, that I accept the evidence of phenomena outside materialistic philosophy. But I certainly require more than blind faith to accept anything as even relatively 'true'. Individual faith and/or guesses are no problem for me...as long as they are presented as such, and not elevated to the status of 'truth'. Zeus, Oden, Jahveh et al share some similarities, but they also differ in some important aspects. Anyone claiming any of these individuals as 'supreme' god, must demonstrate why. They can't all three be supreme god.

You wrote:

" Could it not be, that this 'god' people want to speak of, is not so much an entity, but a energy that is within all life...and what we think of as 'life' to be a matter that is alive or a organism or a cell that 'holds life'....could be our own limited understanding of what 'true life' is. Beyond our comprehension, then it would be yes, certainly."

I completely agree with you. If we talk about an ultimate 'god', it would be unrealistic to model him/her/it after human standards. And unless we talk about a pantheistic 'god', 'god' couldn't even have cosmic attributes, as e.g. energy. I prefer the asian models of 'awareness' (you don't have to be buddhist or hindu etc to use this concept) as the closest we understand to 'reality'.

Thus for me, in an idealist sense (beyond comprehension) there's no life/not-life duality. For me cosmic 'life' is just awareness pressed into a cosmic form of great complexity. Science and (some) religious cosmologies can actually communicate meaningful on this point.

You wrote:

"Yes, it may indeed be beyond our comprehension....but I feel that while we 'dont know' we sometimes do seem to know, there is something more to this."

I've had many extreme anomalous experiences * in my own life, but before I draw any conclusions, I ask myself (and try to examine with what means I have): Is this a hallucination something in me has cooked up, or is it an actual phenomenon originating from some other source? If it's not a hallucination, how correct have I perceived this outer manifestation? (E.g. for a non-tech person an airplane could be a 'god' or a very big bird). Finally: What conclusions can I draw?


Concerning the gnostics. They didn't speak much of good/evil, but rather of truth/error. Instead of moral values based on various kinds of theological speculations, they strived for verification in a way parallel to science (though they included a non-materialist exitence level).

Instead of citing you, I'll just continue in my own way on your speculations on duality, which I find very insightful and relevant. To start with the simplest approach: The new-age 'anti-dualism' crusade. It's as if these people believe, that the rest of us have a religion called 'dualism'. To acknowledge the existence of cosmic duality isn't the same as accepting it as a final 'truth'. And it can't be talked away with the help of ritualized semantics, as the new-agers seem to believe (they have a great faith in talking).

Next level. Duality is one way or another manifested. The real question is: WHERE-HOW. In the individual mind, in the collective cosmic mind or in the mind of the cosmic architect? (The cosmic architect isn't necessarily 'THE god' if any such exists).

The gnostics answered that through their 'demiurge' (=an insane architect) model. But as the gnostic methodologies are lost (thanks to the paulines), we can't verify their conclusions the same way as they did. Though we have science these days, and according to present knowledge, it seems that chaos (in the scientific sense) is non-dualistic, and when chaos is transmutated into cosmos via quantum foam (one of the latest scientific bids) it's 'unsullied' by duality until it is formed by cosmos.

Think of those small cakeforms (stars, hearts etc) with which you cut out a rolled-out dough. Or a casting-form. This is graphically what happens in the transmutation from chaos to cosmos. Chaos is the basic material formed by a mould (cosmos), getting a distinct cosmic, dualistic identity as it is cut loose/separated from its original state of unity/totality.

All this is fairly simple. Duality arrives on the scene in the breaking-point between chaos/cosmos. Thats a relative truth good enough for me (though I don't intend to start any invasive crusades around it). The really, really interesting thing for me is: "What next?".


Because obviously (if my hypothesis is 'true'), then the breaking-point of chaos/cosmos implies 'intent' (i.e. an architect). If cosmic form is an enforced duality (remember the quantum foam resorts to chaos very quick and is 'recaptured' and so on), it says something about the architect. He/she/it has intent, the intent leads to duality (implying 'suffering'), cosmos is (scientifically) an unstable system, which eventually will break down one way or another and in the meantime it needs a lot of patchwork repairing to keep going (E. Schroedinger, but that's beyond this post).

Still for me, this suffices; but being extremely curious by nature, I have even speculated beyond this. Mind you, speculated. Sofar the only comprehensive concept I have found is: What IS duality? Because as long as there is 'intent' (and maybe an alleged ultimate 'god' have intent), there will be duality.

The for me most attractive concept/methodology is that only from a platform of experienced non-duality can we relate meaningful to the REAL beyond. So for me, it's 'doing' time. I trust my map enough now to start moving into the territory.

*I have a post about my own spooky experiences on another thread. Send it to you later.

Bogo

Re Unity_99

Right you are mate.

Personally I'm all for the holographic model. What I can't abide is the 'What the bleep do we know' (famous movie) observer-created-reality model. It's pure bunkum. There's no anthropocentric supreme observation excellence, which makes our observing especially influental on e.g. cosmos forces.

Taken individually mankind is rather dumb, as a species we can't even regulate our scientific toys with a functional ethics, our planet is in an insignificant corner of a rather modest galaxy. It's seems to me, that some people still live in a geo-centric universe, with mankind as the crown of creation.

But that's not the mainpoint. While we in our endless egocentria observe the universe and expect miracles to happen in return (if we observe in the proper way), the sad fact is, that the rest of the universe in its turn observes US, which makes for a completely different situation. The subject/object roles are reversible.

As to your personal cloud experience, I absolutely believe such things possible. But that's not the same as 'creating reality'. It's re-arranging already existing components of it. That's what any scientist does, when he makes a scientific discovery or what a carmechanic does, when he adjusts the fuel-flow.

It ofcourse depends on, how 'reality' is defined.

For me, my relative reality (sorry, haven't got an ultimate one) is the 'natural laws' of cosmos, plus something outside this, which we don't know too much about. To change or create reality would be a 'miracle', breaking these basic laws.

In ordinary life, there are many things regulated by natural laws, which we don't know much about yet. E.g. socalled anomalies. Most of these are only para-normal, just unexplainable at the moment, but still inside cosmic 'reality'.

Hi Leo,

here's the post. Hope this functions (I'm not good with site-navigation).

www.abovetopsecret.com...


If it doesn't function here's the manual way. Mysterious forum-paranormal studies-"I saw a 8 foot tall shadow thing....."-page 5-bogomil

Originally posted by bogomil
Re NorEaster

you wrote:

"So much perfect symmetry with a complete and overwhelming contradiction as the end result."

It's not, that I want to take a single sentence out of context and start a nitpicking analysis of it. It's rather that this sentence is the essense of what your posts are about.

You see, cosmos is NOT in perfect symmetry. It's the slightest bit a-symmetrical. And the best argument for this is, that cosmos does exist. A perfect symmetry would lead to all dualistic polarities cancelling each other out, a kind of super-enthropy. Even a just static cosmos wouldn't be possible (and we know cosmos is far from static in any case).

This slight a-symmetry is part of the original construction, and is the reason for dualism. The fragments will stay fragments as long as they can't harmonize in a total balance.

edit on 16-10-2010 by bogomil because: spelling

Actually, the only way to see a-symmetry in the whole of physical existence is if you're still standing too close to it to view the whole of it. Like those tile patterns that contain internal patterns, too often we assume that we are looking at the largest pattern when we're still looking at an internal pattern and dismissing the one or two irregularities as anomalies. There are no anomalies. There are just improper perspectives. Physical existence can't persist if there are any breaks in the structure, and that's enforced from the bottom to the very top in all senses. Physical existence is a solid - like a steel ball. It progresses - yes - but it doesn't do it randomly or without precision.

As far as a designing and engineering god, that doesn't exist. Our god - the author of our slice of physical existence - simply initiated the progressive development, and allowed it to do its thing.

Re NorEastern

you wrote:

"Actually, the only way to see a-symmetry in the whole of physical existence is if you're still standing too close to it to view the whole of it"

As far as I can see, this is also my opinion. I want my perspective as removed from the individual, part-taking cosmic fragment-position as possible.

The inside-cosmic-perspective is dualistic. The outside-cosmic-perspective is non-dualistic. IMO.

You also wrote:

"As far as a designing and engineering god, that doesn't exist. Our god - the author of our slice of physical existence - simply initiated the progressive development, and allowed it to do its thing."

Personally I try to avoid the concept 'god' as it's to semantically loaded. So if you'll allow me the indulgence of referring to 'it' as the architect or just 'intent', I won't get into any semantic knots.

Concerning the development of cosmos: Are you familiar with the concept 'Negative enthropy'? (I seem to remember you mentioned a recent interest in cosmology).

reply to post by bogomil


Actually, I was downloaded a lot of information by my Higher Self, which I shared in my thread in my signature. A friend who had a nde was really challenging me with questions about what "time", "no time", "gravity", the "sun" was, and even Infinity. I did this meditation catching the wave inside me, the Infinity within and the Quantum experience was profound.

We don't create the Hologram, its streamed in, which implies Higher Ups, and in fact, my friend shared that this is one of the infinite simulated/holographic, interactive (his words), schools, for our infinite souls that only grow larger and brigher as consciousness rays, as we learn self control and love, how to be the "adult'", who would not respond in kind to a less aware or more traumatized, "child" who was harming another even. To yearn for equality and a loving kind world. He said our universe was akin to an biobot suit, like ours, an biological being, smaller than a grain of sand, with the infinity within, almost sounded like an organism. Another time, akin to a lap top.

And yes, my downloads confirmed this entire thing, especially relating to Infinity itself as a Quantum Mechanics Platform in which everything in it was Infinite. Inanimate matter recycles, consciousness progresses. And in No Time, this means an infinite number of us, Higher Self being Future Self, yet holistically as "time" is a construct, we're all as global selves, equal in volume, no matter what grade this current consciousness is in. We all exist at the same time, for everything that is, was, and will be. However, your global infinity measures the same infinite volume as mine, so we're equal.

The pyramids have to be inverted.

So the universe has pixels, alot like dot matrix printer pixels floating around. The stars act like zero point influx centers/lasers that erect the hollogram, the pixels make it a shared expereince.

So youre right, we at this stage certainly dont program the pixels or collective experience, but our Future Selves are the Creators/Programmers/Designers/Artists/Teachers and Guides, they are "Parent" to our "Child".

Another thing my friend brought up was, in Infninity, this is without beginnign or ending, even if you created a new soul tomorrow from your infinite self, that new "child" would stretch infinitely without beginning or ending and would be = to your infinity. So there cannot ever truly be a ONE. He calls us all the Infnite Family of Light, or One-1, short for, One (infinity, and if there is a Creator then that is the Infinite Ocean of Consciusness that we all make up as individuals, and yet will never rejoin either), and the 1111111111111111.................., us. For infinity is boundless, and beyond the beyond is another beyond, forever, so One would be a limited idea.

My thread, came out a discussion with my 19 year old on, on Infinity, and how as a construct, since it is, and since it is streamed in like a broadcast, waves of energy that are erected on our tv screens in our mind, a Matrix, streamed in live, with pixels that create the shared experience, how following along logically, one could almost figure this out without an nde, simply by examining nature, and what it takes for us to live well, and be happy, love and kindness for example, and equality, if we know its streamed in, then we can start to figure out the school easily.

Re Unity_99

You wrote:

"my friend shared that this is one of the infinite simulated/holographic, interactive (his words), schools, for our infinite souls that only grow larger and brigher as consciousness rays, as we learn self control and love, how...."

This presupposes some non-cosmic motives, which are purely speculative. Such speculations may or may not be 'true', but according to mankind's present level of understanding (including epinoia experiences) the only sensible implication is, that we're a smaller part of some midway station. That an ultimate 'god' or 'reality' demonstrates a need for learning something, is bored or 'dream' are suppositions of completely beyond-comprehension nature and only based on anthropo-centric standards.

Apart from that, I agree with you. Even very hypothetically on the possibilty of "there cannot ever truly be a ONE". Because as we get closer to an alleged primary source of existence, the question will always arise: 'Somewhere, somehow intent manifests'.

If there exists an ultimate 'god' or 'reality', he/she/it must have made the decision to 'create' secondary emanations, like e.g. angels, aeons, etc. with possible 'demiurges' as a second- or third-generation emanations. If I have a really good day, I can make guesses on this. Usually I prefer to stay with what's inside my possibility to make sense of or work with. Which includes paranormal or epinoia experiences (as I've had myself). Even they must be be scrutinized, as they as easily as any 'normal' experience can be faked, imagined, mis-interpretated and possibly misused.

I reserve my answers, until I've learned to ask the right questions.