The claim is - Defense Dept group Collins Elite says 'UFOs are demonic'

Firemoon makes some good points about Nick Redfern.

He's researched the book over some years and doesn't, at any point, claim the Collins Elite (CE) are more knowledgeable about UFOs than anyone else. He doesn't make any bold claims that these guys were dictating policy or anything more than a think tank with an agenda...same as any think tank.

It's entirely possible that the story he's been given is more AFOSI BS disinfo and he freely acknowledges the possibility. I think Nick Redfern is teflon in the way he's brought this story out.

The CE have no more validity in their opinions on UFOs than any of us. They say 'demons' where others say 'space brothers.' Likewise some people assume UFOs represent visiting ETs from other planets/moons with good or bad intent. I'm Swiss on the idea of what might be happening and leave the door open to many interpretations. UFOs could be anything until we have more or better information.

Being human, it's only natural to favour some scenarios above others. The 'demonic' idea doesn't appeal to me at all, but I haven't been raised in a religious setting and can't relate to soul farmers and demons. That others believe this to the extent that it is part of their 'reality' is only disturbing at the point of the CE's positions in power or influence. I don't like the idea that someone with any influence at all will interpret the world through the filters of good/evil and Old Testament BS.

The CE apparently believe in 'End Times' and Biblical prophecy. Armageddon and 'end times' is an unhealthy notion. It's dictated by a self-destructive, nihilistic surrender to the 'fact' that the world will come to an end. Any guys who believe the end of the world is a good thing will rush headlong into mass destruction and total war.

There's a great interview over on the Paracast with Nick Redfern talking about the book...www.theparacast.com...

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I fully agree that aliens are nasty buggers who don't have out best interests at heart.

just looking curiously at that statement...a sort of huh over me.

I wonder if thats what primitive civilizations thought about other civilizations they encountered.

oh, them native americans are nasty buggers who don't have our best interests at heart.


Actually...-humans- have proven to be nasty buggers whom have no other's interest at heart. Reflecting our traits on unknowns only continues to fuel our own devolution of reason.

a advanced race of "nasty buggers whom don't have our best interest at heart" would have crushed us like bugs long, long ago...

besides, what is our best interest anyhow? to create nuclear winter, warm the earth to a toasty 130 degrees, and rape all lesser cultures and resources?

I HOPE they don't have our best interest at heart collectively...because our best interest is self inflicted armageddon

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I fully agree that aliens are nasty buggers who don't have out best interests at heart.

just looking curiously at that statement...a sort of huh over me.
I wonder if thats what primitive civilizations thought about other civilizations they encountered.

It's simple really ...

The nasty critters come here .. don't introduce themselves ... perform painful and humilating experiments on humans ... mess with our memories .... implant unwelcome chips in our bodies ... mutilate and/or kill our livestock ....

That's not just a matter of being afraid of a new civilization that is encountered.
That's us being taken for a science experiment and the 'scientist' doesn't care about our pain or emotional well being.

Big difference.

reply to post by FlyersFan
If the aliens are "nasty buggers" how is it that if they have been here all through human history that we are still thriving as a species?would they have farmed us long ago when the population was much easier to handle?I don't understand the whole situation I'm just trying to put it all together.has anyone figured it out?

I don't believe the blog or book. It's entertaining, but it's fiction.

They want to steal and farm our souls? According to the Bible, denying Christ is what sends your soul to Hell. Humans need no help giving their souls over to wickedness, so it seems ridiculous to me that demons would masquerade as aliens to prevent people from finding Jesus. People naturally reject Jesus, especially with science and the school system, the pop culture, all things lead away from holiness - the demons would be better off staying completely unseen in any manner if they wanted to prove God and Satan do not exist.

Originally posted by TWILITE22]If the aliens are "nasty buggers" how is it that if they have been here all through human history that we are still thriving as a species?

Dunno' why we are still here.
- Maybe we are an experiment and they want to see how we turn out.
- Maybe they are waiting until we evolve to a certain point before harvest.
- Maybe we are just a curiosity and they run experiments every so often but other than that .. we aren't interesting enough to care about.

All know is that they aren't nice to us.
But they are solid and not spirit (demonic).
Demons don't need physical vehicles to fly around the universe in.
Flesh and blood critters, however, do need them.

The belief that what we view as UFO's and aliens are in fact ancient demonic entities that travel inter-dimensionally and not inter-galactically is nothing new and in fact I believe has quite a following. I am not too closed minded to consider the possibility.

Originally posted by cj6
Aliens are demons??? lol really? Im not buying into that religious psychobabble

aliens are definitely NOT demons thats ri-goddam-diculous!

Exactly. People make up all sorts of BS. I have read Nick Redfern's "On the Trail of Saucer Spies" and it was quite well written. I'm surprised he would surround himself in talk of "demons."

We are not facing demons. Why would demons need UFOs to fly. I thought demons had wings? I mean cmon.

What I believe we are facing is a Type 2+ civilization and it is here for a reason. That is what all the signs point to IMHO.

reply to post by FireMoon


You know Nick personally? Awesome!

This touches on the big debate about *UFOs extraterrestrial or inter dimensional objects". It's one thing to have them dropping by from the stars, but the inter dimensional explanation really does scare a hell of a lot of people witless, with the ramifications it brings with it,

First, we don't need to envoke interdimensional objects. I believe the UFOs can be explained in terms of Kaku's Type 2 or Type 3 civilization. You don't need interdimensional objects to get scared. A Type 2 or 3 civilization is nearly Godly compared to our young technical civilization. It should be sufficiently scary. Everything these beings can do is explained in Michio Kaku's book: Physics of the Impossible. Let us explore what this man postulates. Keep in mind Kaku built an atom smasher when he was 17 so he's a smart guy to at least consider...

Class I Impossibilites:

1. Force Fields
2. Invisibility
3. Phasers
4. Teleportation
5. Telepathy
6. Psychokinesis
7. Robots
8. UFOs
9. Starships
10. Antimatter

Any of these sound familiar in context of the Alien/UFO phenomenon?

reply to post by Scramjet76


As the author of Final Events, I can assure people that the book is not a hoax, and the idea that I would do this for money (as one person suggested) is laughable. UFO books hardly sell enough copies to pay the rent, never mind anything else. And, I certainly would not perpetrate a hoax anyway! Nor would I spend nearly 4-years of my life (I interviewed Ray Boeche in early 2007 and that's what set me on the trail) investigating this if someone was trying to hoax me.

All of the interviews (Ray Boeche, the former members of the group etc) were audio-recorded, and there are even some of the group's files reproduced in the book. And I'm not the only person who has met with representatives of the group - Ray did so too, but way back in 1991. So, in other words, this is a decades-old story and a decades-old group.

For the record, as several people have pointed out here I personally DO NOT agree with the theory that the Collins Elite reached, namely that UFOs have demonic origins. In fact, I don't hold any particular religious beliefs at all. If we die and it's just the complete end, game-over, lights-out, I would not be at all surprised.

So, I'm NOT promoting this theory as fact, as some have claimed or assumed. Instead. what I have done with the book is to relate the story, history, goals, beliefs etc of the group as they relate to UFOs and their beliefs on the subject.

The most important aspect of this demonic conclusion is that this think-tank, the Collins Elite, was comprised of Christians, and in some cases deeply fundamentalist christians, so it's not at all surprising they reached the conclusions they reached!

In simple terms, the book is a look at the belief-system and history of a very small think-tank body in the US Government that, as a result of its beliefs in the heaven/hell christian teachings, came to believe UFOs are demonic. And that's all.

The FOIA has shown that the Government has sponsored all sorts of wacky think-tanks over the years, and this is just one of many.

reply to post by Nick Redfern


Hey Nick! Is this the real Nick Redfern? I loved your book "On the Trail of Saucer Spies." Very interesting read. I have not read your latest though, Final Events. There's alot of material to review regarding the subject matter.

So, I'm NOT promoting this theory as fact, as some have claimed or assumed. Instead. what I have done with the book is to relate the story, history, goals, beliefs etc of the group as they relate to UFOs and their beliefs on the subject.

I'm sorry if my post came across that way. I know you're too smart for that. You are simply reporting unbiasedly what they're saying. Again, I haven't had a chance to look at your latest book yet.

The most important aspect of this demonic conclusion is that this think-tank, the Collins Elite, was comprised of Christians, and in some cases deeply fundamentalist christians, so it's not at all surprising they reached the conclusions they reached!

Yep whacky conclusions. Not surprising given the group's mindset.

The FOIA has shown that the Government has sponsored all sorts of wacky think-tanks over the years, and this is just one of many

Doesn't surprise me at all. I believe at this point the government knows that "the truth" will come out sooner or later. They are just trying to keep the system (as we know it) functional and running as long as they can. One can hardly blame them for thinking this way and taking such actions given the probable circumstances.

I think some officials within hushed circles have realized that we are up against a superior intelligence. There are huge ramifications involved and they know it. The gov't may be hoping that the phenomenon simply "goes away," but I don't believe that will happen. So it wouldn't surprise me if they do everything they can to distract us. They are dragging our collective feet because they realize we might be getting close to the edge of a cliff....

Finally, someones awake.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I agree it is likely a hoax.

Even if I were to accept the source really comes from a group at the Defense Department there's no reason to begin believing in boogeymen or spacemen based on such a source if they present no evidence. Plus a government source would never be accepted by the conspiracy theory community and anything they have to say would be branded mis or disinformation.

However the Demon alien cross-over does remind me of something...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4e8465ae0f72.jpg[/atsimg]

Anybody up for some Doom?

reply to post by Scramjet76


Good points and definitely a possibility. That said, how does that explain the ability for us humans to visit *their* world under the influence of meditation/medication? That is unless, travel is not always what we might perceiver it as in the *real world*..

We are walking towards the debate over magic being merely that science we don;t understand, which really deserves a whole thread to itself as it throws up a whole slew of possibilities and interpretations. The problem with such a thread is it is almost bound to be derailed in to some sort of internecine warfare between religion and realists.

Without wishing to start a flame war, i'd, for simplicities' sake catalogue experiences as the following..

Open minded "adepts"...treated, if at times begrudgingly, as equals during an encounter

Religious obsessionals... Either view the encounter as Demons or Angels

Skeptics... Presented with something akin to and Alice in Wonderland, totally out there completely *mad* experience.

Truth is, as most of us fit somewhere between these categories we often come away confused/annoyed/heartened/upset/intrigued... all at the same time.


PS..Good to see you Nick , hope all is well.

reply to post by jjkenobi

I am not too closed minded to consider the possibility.

I would close my mind to that possibility because it is not required to explain the phenomenon. There is no reason to envoke a power coming from "outside our universe." The aliens have form and function JUST LIKE US. They're 3D intelligent beings just like us. It's their (far) superior technology & neurology that makes us ponder "god, spirits, the devil, angels, extra dimensional beings," and all sorts of other stuff that is based on superstition and not observation and the scientific method.

Why would you trust such a crazy source? These are fundamentalists who only think one way.

Why not trust a reputable "smart person" who built an atom smasher when he was 17? Let me introduce you to Michio Kaku.

What we are facing is likely a Type 2 or Type 3 civilization. It is their job to transition "higher level" Type 0 civilizations like our own to Type 1 status. Look at the problems the world is facing. And we are still arguing about Obama vs Bush. It's pathetic. Human beings are unfit in our current form to continue to care for the planet and advance our own abilities. In short, our math/engineering skills are outpacing our social skills. Our individualism takes priority over the whole.

The aliens know this because they've seen it before. This isn't "supernatural." It's natural. They are required to assist us in taking us to the next level. They don't view us as "right" or "wrong." They view us as "Type 0" and worthy of genetic modification which will assist us in forming a true "Type 1 society" (global civilization). Without their help we will sit here and argue about dumb nonsense like left wing vs right wing until we go the way of the dinosaurs. We are children. They are the adults and will modify us so we start behaving like adults.

This is why contact has been called "Childhood's End."

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


I don't personally think I was hoaxed. Rather, I think the scenario most likely to be true is the most logical one: namely, that this think-tank was full of people who ALREADY believed deeply in the whole heaven and hell, armageddon, fullfiment of biblical prophecies scenarios etc. So, when they began looking into the whole UFO-demon angle, of course (given their firm fundamentalist beliefs) it's inevitable that they are going to come to a conclusion that sits well with what they already believe.

What this tells me as the author of the book (re the early comment - yes I am the real Nick Redfern LOL!), is that even within government think-tanks we see belief overriding unbiased study.

If it were all a hoax, I think the people I interviewed would have claimed they could PROVE their theory, to reinforce it as a meme they might want spread throughout society etc. However, they openly admitted they couldn't prove the theory at all, and admitted it was just their personal belief system, based on being Christians, and some being fundamentalists.

Hoax-style disinformation usually involves the disinfo people providing something to deceive the target with, not just belief-driven ideas.

So, again, I conclude that while there's absolutely no doubt this think-tank (of a VERY small membership) existed, their words are no more and no less important than the words of anyone in Ufology. For example, Stan Friedman thinks aliens crashed at Roswell. In his book The Cryptotererstrials, the late Mac Tonnies suggested that the Roswell craft might have been created by an ancient earth-based race. And the Air Force said Roswell was caused by a Mogul balloon.

What this tells us is that different people look at evidence in different ways, and reach different conclusions as a result. And that's all the Collins Elite did. They had some money thrown in their direction, had existing ideas as to what they thought was going on, vindicated those ideas and turned them into full-on belief systems and attracted some interest among religious extremists in Government as a result.

reply to post by FireMoon


That is basically what it comes down to isn't it. A discussion about "magic." Since I'm no magician, this is why I have turned to a reknown scientist (Kaku) who has published superior works among his intelligent peers, yet has Sagan like qualities in bringing this information to the layman.

Using his hypothesis on Type 0-3 civilizations, is how one intuitively makes the connection. If people are magically flown to Venus or Zeta Reticuli I cannot say. What I would say is that leading abduction researchers like Bud Hopkins and David Jacobs point out that the vast majority of people experience the same thing. There may be exceptions to this rule. Could be gov't agents spreading disinformation on the abduction phenomenon. Could be people just developing natural "screen memories" in order for them to deal with the trauma. Could be implanted memories by a higher species. There are alot of possiblities. We don't know for sure. But to the best of my knowledge, the leading figures in abduction research have not presented us data that indicates consistent trips to other planets. And one has to wonder why they would take us to other planets unless they've figured out some sort of "free energy."

Now keep in mind in such a scenario that he (Kaku) describes "Class 1 impossibilities" as "technologies that are impossible today but do not violate the known laws of physics. Some may become possible in 100 years while others might take a very long time."

And just in case you're curious...."Class 2 impossibilities" he categorizes as "technologies that sit at the very edge of our understanding of the physical world. It might take thousands or even millions of years to achieve these things... if they are even possible at all..."

Class 2 impossibilities:

1) FTL
2) Time Travel
3) Parrallel Universes

Anyways, this why the aliens must "upgrade us." In our current pathetic state, we are simply incompatible with their intelligence. I believe they are here to "get us on the right track" to true productivity and true intelligence. Perhaps someday WE will be the Type 2 custodians (for lack of better term) to some other species. We will be the ones invisible, watching, & waiting for a pompous arrogant Type 0 civilization to snap out of their cultural ego-centric daze. But no adult would ever leave a child in charge of such a responsibility! This is why they must make us into adults. But they do have a respect for us I believe. Just like we respect a dog more than we do a fly. We are a very complicated multicellular organism and they recognize this! That is why they have chosen our DNA! We have the potential. But we are still children. We have alot of growing to do.

Just my 2 cents. Of course I could be wrong. Afterall, I'm only human.

Good topic, fit's right into what I believe. I posted something about this whole thing today in the Revelation vs. Disclosure topic:

I think it all ties together in this way: What we think are e.t.'s, aliens, are in fact the fallen angels. The great deception, and the church doesn't know/do anything. In the days of Noah, the fallen angels married human females and it created a disgusting off-spring. God was angered and very sad about this. It was so disgusting that only a total annihilation (the great flood) could solve this mess. Jesus said that in the end of times, it would be as in the days of Noah. This is a scary thing. You see, angels have certain powers. They can use it for good, and for evils. They have a free will too. Throughout history, angels appeared with a message of peace. "Don't be affraid" was the first thing they said (altough people were a bit frightened at first). Satan and his fallen angel folowers are different. They are angels, so they can travel through dimensions (angels would appear out of nothing, through a wall etc.) and it's clear they don't use it for any good. Satan is getting a lot of power in the end of times, and it seems to me that his time is now. Abduction story's are full of fear, almost like those beings (greys?) feed on it. In what is called 'the alien gospel', told by Blossom Goodchild. , Raëlian etc; 'they' were our creators, they come to tell us this, that we are genetically modified beings, modified by them, and that our religion is false. Yes, Jesus Christ existed, yes, He was a good man, but he didn't ressurect. Dangerous stuff people. All these alien channelers tell us this. They want us to think Jesus was not what we think (Jesus is the essention of Christianity!). Another interesting aspect is that those who've been abducted, and called for Jesus, were at peace immedeatly, never to see these beings again. Only Jesus seems to scare them (like the bible says about demons). Why are there abductions? What are these stories about a breeding program about? Are they preparing for something? This stuff is not getting away, the church need to wake up. Why would fallen angels need to rely on phisical crafts (ufo's)? A common question.

2 Thessalonians 2:9: The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the power of Satan. He will use every kind of power, including miraculous signs, lying wonder

Rev. 9/3: 3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

If we go back into the original Greek scripture, it says: The root word of scoripon is: observer, watchman. Power is translated form "exousia", which means: power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases, phiscal and mental power, power of authority or influence and right of privelage. There is even more to it which deserves it's own topic I think. It talks about an authority over the earth. It aren't really scorpions but beings more powerful ("the watchers"). Translation is a hard and important thing if we look at the verse above.

The alien deception is what all of this is called. Satan want's is to believe there are aliens and that Jesus didn't exist. When WW III starts, it's perfect for the fallen angels to come as "space travellers", bringen people together for 'they have made us'. I think a lot of christians will fall for it and they can show us proof via holographic images of 'our creation'. Remember, satan is the master of deception. And the 'watchers' have power. Angels can be good or bad, they've got free will. I'm sorry for grammer and other mistakes, my English isn't as good as it was (and I'm just 19...).

I've got a lot of information from L.A. Marzulli, a Christian who knows a lot about this subject (complete with the hybrids/fallen angels theory).

Be ready for The Great Deception. Satan's time is running out.

I'll attribute unknown powers to demons long, long before I'll attribute them to aliens. I'm not saying there aren't aliens, but I am certain about demonic forces as surely as I consider myself sane. Lately I'm wondering how much can be shown to be the workings of technology instead of either (or in conjunction with either).

Any Christians reading this? One source I've found very helpful lately is Forbidden Gates, by Tom Horn. The blogs are free to read online (and I deeply encourage doing so)! The alien-demon cpntroversy is given a wide address here, and I found it cemented the probable causes categories into beneficial-to-understand direction.

How Genetics, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, Synthetic Biology, Nanotechnology & Human Enhancement Herald the Dawn of Techno-Dimensional Spiritual Warfare.

defenderpublishing.blogspot.com...

reply to post by FlyersFan



I know it isn't the most popular idea, but I think they are correct. I read a bit about remote viewing, and demonic fits quite well the entities that were encountered. Fits a lot of the rest as well, if we think about it. Throughout time, people have had encounters with beings that are evil, that take people, mate with people, have some need for blood, or DNA, or whatever, etc. Look at all the similarities between old fairy stories and modern aliens. Coincidence, or the same beings with a different bag of tricks? I KNOW this much - a friend (now deceased) that believed he had been abducted, said something very interesting to me. He was visiting, along with my mother and brother. The topic came up, and I shared my opinions. he wasn't too keen on the idea, but I went on and told him that, if I was correct, he need not fear while in my home, as I do not allow such things in it. He offered a thanks, but didn't really believe me. However, a couple of days later, he came and told me he felt safer than he had in YEARS, and was very thankful at that point. This guy was never hypnotized, so this wasn't some false memory, and it didn't fit sleep paralysis, either, though I didn't learn all the details. He shared more with my brother, but didn't like to talk about it much. From that, I can't help but believe I am right.

Sounds like a book I might want to buy.