Questioning US and other Coalition Military Tactics

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly

Originally posted by TheResurection
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

Aren't the americans supposed to be handing over control to the afghans? If that is the case, shouldn't they (the afghans) be doing 99% of the tactical movement,

Yes...once they have been SHOWN how to do it by the americun troops. At the moment we are going to finish up with Afgan troops who think you need to push untrained people through doors......

So yeah, all of us sat here behind PC's.....you sat behind yours thinking this is the correct way to train people.

They are shown how to do it during training. They are shown many, many, many times and then are made to practice it many, many, many, many times until they have it right. Once they go out into the field with American soldiers theya are the ones who are supposed to be banging down doors and clearing rooms.

The same thing happened in Vietnam. We trained the crap out of them, outfitted them and then when it came time to fight they wanted to stay in the chopper. Instead of us having to push them out of those choppers, like they did back then, we have to force them through the doors.

You want us out of that country then the bleeding hearts need to sit back, close their mouths and let those who know what they are doing administor some tough love or you will be moaning and groaning about this war for a very long time.

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by Logarock

 

Its not if you win that matters, its how you play the game..

Think about that for a while..

So so true, they won't think about it though it's not their culture, I don't mean that as an attack, but it's all about the winning in Merkah.

What gives Al-Qaeda the right to run about the earth judging other cultures with death and distruction? Its all about taking the world for Islam and the super Iman will come.

meanwhile

To H### with these criminal minds. They day will come when they will rejoice at the day we liberated them from the maddness of their fathers.

Taliban bombed Girls High School Sulman Khel and Girls Primary School Sulman

Originally posted by Logarock
Think awhile about who started this game. What may bother you is that americans want to play at all. Al Qaeda wants to go the world over blowing things up and then thinks to hide out with its Taliban pals in the Afgan outbacks. Then what cry when they wake up one day and find the US has brought the war to their backyard? One would think that Al Qaeda should have its military tactics questioned here. And who are these dumba##es that will fire on US troops from a house full of women and children? Gee dad thanks!

Who started it? I am curious when Al Qaeda started this by attacking us? Can you please elaborate on that?

reply to post by bigyin


If we do not win the hearts and minds we are doing nothing but creating a very powerful enemy...



Make no mistake things are being way mishandled..

I will use my present divorce as an example...

If I wait for the response I am going to get she will bury me. Out of my childrens own interest I have no choice...

I have given peace every oppurtunity available. I have bent over backwards including insuring that the bills are still being paid.

even now I still hold out the option of peaceful settlement. Make no mistake I still advance what I feel is the best cause for my children.

The same issues still apply. In the course of this conversation you like to play the 'you are a war hawk shame on you.'

It does not work like that in the real world. Individuals will constantly attempt to push there agenda and use whatever means available to do this. The only way to secure this nations freedom is through influence. The only place influence comes from is power. At the end of the day you can negotiate whine and cry but your competition if it has more power will level you as you wait on peace.

If we really want this war in Afghanastan to be over we need to make friends and build allies. They have to believe they are free. They have to believe we offer them a better deal. And most importantly we have to maintain some form of their security so that they can get addicted to this freedom.

Trust me once they get addicted to freedom they will turn thier hearts and minds on our side and destroy whoever tries to take it from them.

To do all this the Taliban must be destroyed and neutered. The only way is to strip them from all their access to the materials of war. Prevent their ability to strike and kidnap. They must know that they will be hunted until they quit. Leave them no resources to fight with, while all those on your side have your full protection.

Trust me as time goes by the people themselves will turn on them. That is your goal.

If not, glass them now. You have no choice, in the end they will retaliate and we will all pay the price...

Originally posted by Curiousisall

Originally posted by Logarock
Think awhile about who started this game. What may bother you is that americans want to play at all. Al Qaeda wants to go the world over blowing things up and then thinks to hide out with its Taliban pals in the Afgan outbacks. Then what cry when they wake up one day and find the US has brought the war to their backyard? One would think that Al Qaeda should have its military tactics questioned here. And who are these dumba##es that will fire on US troops from a house full of women and children? Gee dad thanks!

Who started it? I am curious when Al Qaeda started this by attacking us? Can you please elaborate on that?

Well for one they truck bombed the american embasy in Kenya durring the clinton administration.

Kenya

It is not widly known that Al Qaeda Philippines helped Terry Nichols in the Oklahoma City bombing as well as the first WTC bombing.

PHILIPPINES-Al Qaeda

"the Oklahoma City bomb was identical to the 1993 World Trade Center bomb."

By the summer of 1996, bin Laden himself may have sensed that the American public had been seeded with enough innuendo and suspicion to merit a bona fide declaration of war - and perhaps care enough to pay attention. On June 25, 1996, the Khobar Towers facility in Saudi Arabia was attacked, resulting in the deaths of 19 U.S. servicemen. Little more than two weeks later, on July 10, 1996, journalist Robert Fisk of the Independent managed to track down bin Laden at his tent headquarters somewhere in Afghanistan (after being booted out of his base in Sudan a few months earlier at U.S. insistence). There, Fisk recorded for posterity bin Laden's proclamation of "the beginning of war between Muslims and the United States."

I am posting this read for its good info but do not hold with the conclusions.

Originally posted by Logarock
Well for one they truck bombed the american embasy in Kenya durring the clinton administration.

Kenya

...and why did they do that? Because we wear blue jeans and read Vogue Magazine?

It is not widly known that Al Qaeda Philippines helped Terry Nichols in the Oklahoma City bombing as well as the first WTC bombing.
I am posting this read for its good info but do not hold with the conclusions.

Well since you cannot stand by the conclusions this is just a conspiracy theory to distract from the topic. Why would Al Qeada attack us to begin with? They had reasons, remember what they were?

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by Logarock

 

Its not if you win that matters, its how you play the game..

Think about that for a while..

Think awhile about who started this game. What may bother you is that americans want to play at all. Al Qaeda wants to go the world over blowing things up and then thinks to hide out with its Taliban pals in the Afgan outbacks. Then what cry when they wake up one day and find the US has brought the war to their backyard? One would think that Al Qaeda should have its military tactics questioned here. And who are these dumba##es that will fire on US troops from a house full of women and children? Gee dad thanks!

Al qaeda, the taliban, all labels for the newest bogeymen that our leaders want us to fear and hate..

Get some perspective.. Our leaders want us to believe that a few badly trained terrorists took over a few planes with pen knives. Planes filled with gung ho americans who take no crap and am not scared of a swiss army knife. Then pull off moves in an airoplane that most fully trained combat pilots couldnt do. Smash them into the wtc and then the most guarded place on earth, the pentagon... Sheep and goat herders in afghanistan.. Tribal warriors armed with ak's but apart from that tech, their lives have been unchanged for 2000 years... Except for constant war... However their way of life is mostly nomadic, pre history tribesmen who are kicking our ass..

Do you honestly believe the crap that these goat herders could bring that to america? Remembrering those same politicos told us iraq had wmd's when they did not.. Do the math..

Get there as quick as your educational system allows..


America went into afghanistan, we followed like sheep... However american tactics are all about peace through maximum fire power..

Wars are never won that way.. Battles are.. You should have learnt that lesson in Vietnam, but your culture is arrogant. You think people will just roll over for you because you have bigger guns..

In the end of the day you can win all you like but without integrity your victory is meaningless, hence why it aint if you win its HOW you win..

I know because i have won through some dirty crap, lost my integrity and honour and have to live with it.. Experience dude...

reply to post by bigyin


You know what....

First off, I don't see the mass killings like what the world witnessed under the Soviet invasion. Second, you don't see the mass support against NATO and the US like you saw the masses in Afghanistan against the Soviets and third! The majority of Afghans they don't want the Taliban to return with their twisted view of Islam.

reply to post by ripcontrol

The flag is reversed WTF?
I don't remember that!
That's not the speech. I know it's popular. True speech with reversed flag WTF?

For the reality crowd

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by bigyin

 

You know what....

First off, I don't see the mass killings like what the world witnessed under the Soviet invasion. Second, you don't see the mass support against NATO and the US like you saw the masses in Afghanistan against the Soviets and third! The majority of Afghans they don't want the Taliban to return with their twisted view of Islam.

Daisy cutters

How many vapourized people can you count? JDAM? Any other assorted air fuel bombs you want..

That vast majority also think that life was better under the taliban too.. They play both sides because we have weapons that will kill them... The wee fella in the vid was beheaded by the taliban a few weeks later for saying "f@@k the taliban" and getting smokes off marines.. he looked about 10 years old..

I have to say that i am pissed..

Im a proffessional soldier. I have been a infantryman since leaving school at 16 and am now 37... We cant just keep folliwing our c in c without question anymore. ..

We cant justify orders and ops on a lie... We supposed to have honour..

Originally posted by Yissachar1

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by Logarock

 

Its not if you win that matters, its how you play the game..

Think about that for a while..

Think awhile about who started this game. What may bother you is that americans want to play at all. Al Qaeda wants to go the world over blowing things up and then thinks to hide out with its Taliban pals in the Afgan outbacks. Then what cry when they wake up one day and find the US has brought the war to their backyard? One would think that Al Qaeda should have its military tactics questioned here. And who are these dumba##es that will fire on US troops from a house full of women and children? Gee dad thanks!

Al qaeda, the taliban, all labels for the newest bogeymen that our leaders want us to fear and hate..

Do you honestly believe the crap that these goat herders could bring that to america? Remembrering those same politicos told us iraq had wmd's when they did not.. Do the math..

In the end of the day you can win all you like but without integrity your victory is meaningless, hence why it aint if you win its HOW you win..

I know because i have won through some dirty crap, lost my integrity and honour and have to live with it.. Experience dude

Oh yes and Al Qaeda and Taliban are virtuous warriors. Yea right. Yes that the earth should find the virtuos path and Shangri-La amoung the poppy fields there. That a Thoreau should rise up and write about life there. Lets see he could call Poppy Fields Forever....just never mind all the heroin addicts in Iran for they support a virtuos war fought by a simple people who are so noble and so uncorrupted that they would rather see thier people walk about with abscessed teeth and to allow an american dentist to live let work among the simple hill folks. Oh yes such is the magnitude of thier noblity! And that a woman would want to read there! Let them cleanse thier earth of such foul and base western ideas. Let them cut off the hand found with voting ink for it is the hand of corruption for they are a simple and noble people full of justice and integrity.

reply to post by Yissachar1


What army did you join 20 years ago that let you join up when you was 16?

I've been around just about as long as you claim and I have never heard of or seen anyone younger then 17 join and that was with a parents signed release form.

You are either blowing smoke about being in the military or about your age.

So, to get back on track, those of you who fully support the coalition's actions and the campaign itself, can you tell me if it's possible to criticise anything at all about our actions and not be called a traitor. Or do you just accept everything and anything as ok, no questions asked ?

reply to post by bigyin


There are several things we did wrong.

1. We let people think the only reason we went to Iraq was because they had WMDs.

2. We let people think this would be a standard war with people in uniforms. Now they see a dead insurgent on television and all they see is civilian clothes and boom to them we just killed a civilian.

3. We didn't have a back up plan before we went. It took several years for us to finally get control of Iraq.

Those are just a few mistakes.

reply to post by adifferentbreed

The only "Armchair experts" l know of, are the ones who sit in the comfort and security of their units in the US. directing the Drones that blow up innocent men, women and children, Then return to the comfort of their own homes. Such Brave men. How can anyone call them cowards?

Originally posted by Becoming
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

What army did you join 20 years ago that let you join up when you was 16?

I've been around just about as long as you claim and I have never heard of or seen anyone younger then 17 join and that was with a parents signed release form.

You are either blowing smoke about being in the military or about your age.

Certainly 7 years before Yissachar joined guys who left school with me a 16 joined the army I'm sure my cousin was a junior leader or something at 16 and a young guy of 18 died last year in Afghanistan having joined up at 16.

Sooo in answer to your question the British Army, oh and I think you owe a vet an apology.

Originally posted by Becoming


They are shown how to do it during training. They are shown many, many, many times and then are made to practice it many, many, many, many times until they have it right. Once they go out into the field with American soldiers theya are the ones who are supposed to be banging down doors and clearing rooms.

The same thing happened in Vietnam. We trained the crap out of them, outfitted them and then when it came time to fight they wanted to stay in the chopper. Instead of us having to push them out of those choppers, like they did back then, we have to force them through the doors.

So you are saying that what we see on the video is AFTER training ? That this is how people act after they have been trained by the americun troops "!many, many, many, many times until they have it right" and that these incidents in Afganistan are not the first time that 'trained' personnel need to be pushed infront of americun troops. I'm presuming the americuns have had the same training which leads me to think the only reason to 'push people' is because they dont want to go first themselves......which i think is the point we have been making on this thread.

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by Becoming
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

What army did you join 20 years ago that let you join up when you was 16?

I've been around just about as long as you claim and I have never heard of or seen anyone younger then 17 join and that was with a parents signed release form.

You are either blowing smoke about being in the military or about your age.

Certainly 7 years before Yissachar joined guys who left school with me a 16 joined the army I'm sure my cousin was a junior leader or something at 16 and a young guy of 18 died last year in Afghanistan having joined up at 16.

Sooo in answer to your question the British Army, oh and I think you owe a vet an apology.

Why do you think I owe anyone an apology?

Maybe you should apologize for that whole first paragraph, my head still hurts from trying to sort it out.

reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly


If you say so.

Second line.

Originally posted by Becoming
reply to post by Wobbly Anomaly

 

If you say so.

Second line.

I wish all women were as agreeable as you

Most just say 'no'