Questioning US and other Coalition Military Tactics

In another thread talking about the Aid Worker who was killed a few days ago in Afghanistan when US Marines attempted to rescue her, posters who criticised the tactics and methods used by US or other coalition troops came under fire themselves.

It's as if you are not allowed to point out things which have happened which maybe shouldn't happen.

I thought after Abu Ghraib we got past this and were able to admit that sometimes we get it wrong and make the necessary adjustments.

In my book two wrongs don't make a right. There is no point complaining about 'terrorists' if we do things that are just as bad as them in our operations. We should at all times strive to hold the moral ground by working within the rules by maintaining human rights and dignity.

My particular complaint came from watching a Channel 4 documentary which followed US troops as they tried to clear a town of Taliban fighters. Something I noticed was that the US troops had Afghan troops along with them and as the video shows whenever the troops came across a dangerous situation such as going into a building or checking out a suspicious looking package, the US troops would force the Afghan soldiers to go in first.

The video can be seen here Despatches though I'm not sure if it can be watched outside of UK. It's about an hour long.

Personally I don't agree with this treatment of Afghan soldiers happening. That doesn't mean I don't support the troops, I have friends out there. I don't agree that we should be there at all. I don't blame the troops for that, I blame the politicians.

I'm interested to know what others think of the way the Afghans are treated in this video, and I also want to know why I can't point out mistakes without being called some kind of traitor.

reply to post by bigyin


I watched it too. Those marines man handled those Afghans like you would a detainee and physically pushed them to check out choke points like human sheilds. It was disgusting to watch and no excuse will justify it..

Yes, absolutely terrible, it's like they are saying "It's your part of the world, even though we insist on being here, your gonna be blown up first"

Here is a rather fitting clip from the South Park movie which I think fits perfectly here:

(please note, quite quiet, and don't let the title mislead you)

reply to post by woogleuk


" have you ever heard of Emancipation Proclamation ? "

" I don't listen to hip hop "

Originally posted by woogleuk
Yes, absolutely terrible, it's like they are saying "It's your part of the world, even though we insist on being here, your gonna be blown up first"

Here is a rather fitting clip from the South Park movie which I think fits perfectly here:

(please note, quite quiet, and don't let the title mislead you)

edit on 12/10/10 by woogleuk because: (no reason given)

Excellent !

Many a true word spoken in jest.....

I'm sorry but wouldn't you want the Afghanis to to go first and take over their countrys security, so we can bring our troops home? I mean isn't that most everyones goal to bring all of them home? They way some post about the military, its almost damned if they do damned if they don't.

reply to post by rakkasansct


There is a huge difference between training and cowardice

reply to post by Yissachar1


So in your mind... the only correct way to handle it, would be to let the afghans sit tight while american troops check the choke points? I am not going to watch the video.

I am sure you gents sitting behind your pc could have done a better job?

Aren't the americans supposed to be handing over control to the afghans? If that is the case, shouldn't they (the afghans) be doing 99% of the tactical movement, with the americans as an advisory roll? I am prettty sure that is what has been said.. So when they do this, they are abusing the afghans? And this act paints them as cowards?

Would you call the soldiers that volunteered to "attempt" to rescue the journalist a coward? This all come down to forgivness..

Each and every soldier is a human- with the same loves,likes and fears that we all share.. Why is it, on this site folks seem to have no flaws at all. Or at least feel that the people that they "type" about should be exempt from error? I am only to assume that the arrogant, opinionated posters in this thread are without flaw. It is the only reasonable deduction.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by rakkasansct

 

There is a huge difference between training and cowardice

Its cowardice? No you are just fearfull that they will learn to take on the task for themselves and then tears, you wont have much to cry about.

Originally posted by TheResurection
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

So in your mind... the only correct way to handle it, would be to let the afghans sit tight while american troops check the choke points? I am not going to watch the video.

I am sure you gents sitting behind your pc could have done a better job?

Aren't the americans supposed to be handing over control to the afghans? If that is the case, shouldn't they (the afghans) be doing 99% of the tactical movement, with the americans as an advisory roll? I am prettty sure that is what has been said.. So when they do this, they are abusing the afghans? And this act paints them as cowards?

He knows they are not cowards. And he also knows that if the Afghans take on the task themselves it will be a large victory for the US. Thats what he is afraid of.

Oh cool, another anti American troop thread with arm chair experts offering up cool words like cowardice. Sure to be another star and flag fest. If those troops don't want to learn and do the job that we are training them for, why shouldn't they be treated roughly? Personally, I think they should have to take point in everything, it's their country. Oh well, I'll leave you guys to your madness, have fun.

reply to post by TheResurection


Typical response

I HAVE done better! Done my time and trained plenty of troops both foriegn and domestic.

A leader leads by EXAMPLE especialy in training and the fact that you havent bothered to watch the vid just proves your ignorance.
If they were my troops i would say the same thing, in fact if they were my boys treating our allies like that their feet would not touch the ground and they would have my boot up THEIR asses on point doing every entry instead of playing the coward... Yes they have to take over.. Yes they must participate fully in ops, but not in the way those guys were in the vid.!

After being treated that way its no wonder some of them frag the boys back at base.

Watch the vid

Deny ignorance

reply to post by Logarock


Its not if you win that matters, its how you play the game..

Think about that for a while..

Originally posted by TheResurection
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

Aren't the americans supposed to be handing over control to the afghans? If that is the case, shouldn't they (the afghans) be doing 99% of the tactical movement,

Yes...once they have been SHOWN how to do it by the americun troops. At the moment we are going to finish up with Afgan troops who think you need to push untrained people through doors......

So yeah, all of us sat here behind PC's.....you sat behind yours thinking this is the correct way to train people.

Im not sure if american members will be able to view the dispatches documentary. I found it very interesting. It's not the troops fault, they seemed do be doing pretty much as the UK troops when they were in helmand. What was interesting was how demoralised the American troops looked. It looked like the old Vietnam movies, with American soldiers in lands far away, not knowing who the enemy is and what they are doing there.

Cant be easy fighting alongside these Afghan soldiers

In another part of the video US troops speak to local civilians and ask them where the Taliban are. The locals comply with the requests and look bewildered/frightened about whats going on. One says he and his family stayed indoors for several days in anticipation of the US arriving.

Later in the program, civilians state that they don't think the invading forces are doing any good. They were happy with the ways things were before and they don't see anything getting any better while the troops are there.

At the end of the program we are told that some of those that helped the US troops were killed. Didn't say who by, but I'm assuming that when the US troops pulled out of the village which they had spent so long taking, the Taliban must have come back and dealt with those that had helped the other side.

Now whether you agree with any of this or not, the fact remains that unless the US are prepared to keep troops on the ground there forever, things are not looking too good for any locals that help the invaders.

I think this is probably why the Afghan Soldiers were less than enthusiastic. I expect most of those to be claiming asylum in USA before to long.

It's difficult to see how our efforts are helping.

Go ahead and explain to me how it is all going to work out for the good, because I can't see it at the moment.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by Logarock

 

Its not if you win that matters, its how you play the game..

Think about that for a while..

So so true, they won't think about it though it's not their culture, I don't mean that as an attack, but it's all about the winning in Merkah.

I read piece in one of the broadsheets by a Brit officer saying basically his tours in Afghanistan had made him realise he had more in common with his European colleagues than USans this had come as a surprise to him as he'd always been an Amerophile.

I note a number of ex Brit forces have been contributing to the current tactics threads and being attacked by patriotic Merkahns but not the US vets who's views I usually respect on such matters, no doubt having being trained to NATO standard they are scratching their heads about the "rescue" events themselves.

Is it just me....



Damn straight I am PLAYING the patriot card....

This whole war has been mishandled... The Afghanistan People are a very proud people who have resisted invaders for centuries.

The weakness the us troop and coalition military is the first tactical mistake they made....

The doubters need to read over the history of these proud people. Look what they did to the British.... They and we have shared history of stubbornness and strength through adversity...

As for the Taliban... More problems have been caused by the religious idots for centuries on this planet...

Its time the US walked the deck... Sweep the whole country and not rely on allies... Strip all the weapons and supplies from them... Then redo the training programs... Do not accept the current leadership and find another one....

Otherwise the US should glass whole area because all we are doing if we dont is create an enemy...

Originally posted by ripcontrol
Is it just me....


Otherwise the US should glass whole area because all we are doing if we dont is create an enemy...

Dude how many times do we hear us in the west say something like.... oh just nuke the lot of em, or glass the area as you put it ?

It's not the answer.

Fact is that Afghanistan was not an issue before we went in following 911.

We went there to find OBL, that is supposedly still the mission

Of course you have already made hardened enemies of a lot of people from Afghanistan and Iraq and other places too. Nobody takes kindly to being bombed from on high out of their home.

Tell me what you would think if anybody blew up your house with your wife and kids in it ...... tell me

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by Logarock

 

Its not if you win that matters, its how you play the game..

Think about that for a while..

Think awhile about who started this game. What may bother you is that americans want to play at all. Al Qaeda wants to go the world over blowing things up and then thinks to hide out with its Taliban pals in the Afgan outbacks. Then what cry when they wake up one day and find the US has brought the war to their backyard? One would think that Al Qaeda should have its military tactics questioned here. And who are these dumba##es that will fire on US troops from a house full of women and children? Gee dad thanks!