I have come to embrace Socialism!

A couple things: the mod who commented naming the dictators from the authoritarian/communist governments is completely misinformed. Communism and Socialism are COMPLETELY different things.
If they were the same thing the mod would still be using logical fallacy called straw-man.

Socialism is way different than capitalism. And social programs are extremely different from socialism and communism.

Jesus a socialist: Well he had socialistic qualities, but I wouldn't call him a socialist. He was certainly not a CAPITALIST as many on here are suggesting. More of a liberal on the libertarian side.

The amount of logical fallacies on this thread is outrageous and it is sad to see a mod use them.

Another reason why countries like the USSR and China failed with communism is because; Marx predicted communism to be the next step after a capitalist industrial society, China and the USSR went straight from an agricutlural society into a communist society. They never had their own Industrial revolution.

Also; in capitalism there needs to be a lower class in order for it to work, that is one of it's many flaws.

Poverty causes many things like violence. gangs, robberies etc.

Capitalism creates a materialistc view of the world.

How materialistic was the Jesus character?

Everyone that is really interested in these topics should research it more. Many of you make incorrect statements to demonize what you don't agree with.

Cool thread; S&F

Originally posted by nickspm
Darkmask-

In Scandinavia, for example, one probably doesn't feel the need for a gun for protection from the government. However, as the U.S. has become increasingly (essentially) Fascist, a gun provides a certain sense of security against a growing tyranny that has taken root here, in particular after 9/11.

Your medical care sounds fantastic. One of the greatest problems in the U.S. is that it doesn't matter how much taxes are raised to supposedly cover health care and even build new infrastructure. America is so corrupt at this point, that the money will just be siphoned away to pay for some ridiculous war that will drag the country down even further.

If we ever saw our tax dollars go for anything that actually improved our own lives that we could see, then Americans might be less reluctant about having a heavier tax burden. However, it's hard to get excited about paying more when you never see anything for your tax money, except for a few more kids being butchered by Predator Drones in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

this is socialism for dummies: a capitalistic nation goes to war so socialism must be the answer.

are you suggesting it makes sense to keep a gun because of the tea party? are you aware that fascism is such a broad term that it is almost absurd to equate it unequivocally to the right wing as you did? and apparently you are under the age of 20 because there was hardly any backlash against muslims until obama stoked bad blood.

If we ever saw our tax dollars go for anything that actually improved our own lives that we could see, then Americans might be less reluctant about having a heavier tax burden

if government spent less NOW than they already do, our lives would be improved WITHOUT raising taxes.

Originally posted by nickspm
Darkmask-

In Scandinavia, for example, one probably doesn't feel the need for a gun for protection from the government. However, as the U.S. has become increasingly (essentially) Fascist, a gun provides a certain sense of security against a growing tyranny that has taken root here, in particular after 9/11.

Your medical care sounds fantastic. One of the greatest problems in the U.S. is that it doesn't matter how much taxes are raised to supposedly cover health care and even build new infrastructure. America is so corrupt at this point, that the money will just be siphoned away to pay for some ridiculous war that will drag the country down even further.

If we ever saw our tax dollars go for anything that actually improved our own lives that we could see, then Americans might be less reluctant about having a heavier tax burden. However, it's hard to get excited about paying more when you never see anything for your tax money, except for a few more kids being butchered by Predator Drones in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

The idea that a gun can truly protect you against a tyrannical government in this day and age is absolutely ridiculous.

Let's just say the fringe right PCT (paranoid conspiracy theorist) dream of a government declaring martial law and attacking citizens really happened. What is the "armed citizen" with a pistol or a riffle or a shot gun going to do against tanks, stingers, grenades, assault riffles, biological weapons, drones, air strikes, bombs etc?

These militias wouldn't stand a chance and it is an absurd statement to make.

So you don't see your taxes going to anything but wars huh?

Okay next time you see a government employee, hear about police saving someone's life, see a new light on your road, see your road paved, get your mail delivered, see anyone in public education or prison etc; try to invent some kind of conspiracy theory to explain how that money got there.

Taxes are WONDERFUl for society.

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
TWhat is the "armed citizen" with a pistol or a riffle or a shot gun going to do against tanks, stingers, grenades, assault riffles, biological weapons, drones, air strikes, bombs etc?

go down with a fight.

Please study up on socialism somewhat, the fact of the matter is, there is no such thing as a strictly democratic or capitalist society. We have been in one form or another of socialism since our creation. The government's involvement in all aspects of our society is evident. The governments taketh and giveth back, look at the tax. Look at insurance, and the list goes on and on. Our business dealings are strictly controlled by the government. So for people to say that socialism doesn't work, well maybe there is some truth to that., Look at our economy now.
Anyways, just being real on here.

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
A couple things: the mod who commented naming the dictators from the authoritarian/communist governments is completely misinformed. Communism and Socialism are COMPLETELY different things.
If they were the same thing the mod would still be using logical fallacy called straw-man.

Socialism is way different than capitalism. And social programs are extremely different from socialism and communism.

so far so good...

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
Jesus a socialist: Well he had socialistic qualities, but I wouldn't call him a socialist. He was certainly not a CAPITALIST as many on here are suggesting. More of a liberal on the libertarian side.

oh well.

assuming he existed, and was anything like his father, he was not a libertarian. freedom is not 5 commandments demanding devotion.

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
The amount of logical fallacies on this thread is outrageous and it is sad to see a mod use them.

Another reason why countries like the USSR and China failed with communism is because; Marx predicted communism to be the next step after a capitalist industrial society, China and the USSR went straight from an agricutlural society into a communist society. They never had their own Industrial revolution.

as if THAT is the reason communism fails. and do you know the rest of marx's steps? how about that bit about anarchy at the end? communism is supposed to grow government so big that it...falls away? i know a faster way to get there!

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
Poverty causes many things like violence. gangs, robberies etc.

a myth. when you're poor you don't hurt people, you spend less. violent crimes down the past 3 years:
www.cbsnews.com...

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
Capitalism creates a materialistc view of the world.

HUMANS create materialism. if you don't think there is some rickshaw-envy in commie china think again.

Originally posted by Ignorance_Defier
How materialistic was the Jesus character?

not very. how materialistic is the church in his honor? as long as humans are involved, the communist ideal will never be reached because limited government, freedom, and capitalism are NATURAL.

being a man of many religious practices in his lifetime, I chose pagan ways and according to the practices it involves 70k socialists to conjure up and use in the evolution of ones outlook or enchantments. jesus is just one of them in the christain religion, but he does not exist as anything more than a disciple in the jehovah witness,
Socialist- people sharing views over the course of time to achieve a better way of life beyond the grave

Originally posted by Skyfloating
To learn more about Socialism I also recommend you Wikipedia

Stalin
Lenin
Mao
Pol Pot
Castro
Mugabe
Chavez

the socialist "heroes" of the last 100 years.

If people really want to learn about a socialist agenda in the original unadulterated and purest form... they should study Christ.
Of course the original version has lost a lot in the translation over the years...and we have not been able to make it work.

Greed has always been a sticking point and where we completely lose total focus.

Lets roll the dice on socialism.

Could it be any worse than capitalism?

Jesus was definitely a radical pacifist. I mean do you really believe that Jesus wouldn't object to the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan or in Chechnya or western China. And by the way Jesus was not a christian he was a jew.
Described in modern terms his philosphy was pacifist anarchist.

I think that a lot of people are willing to dabble in socialism as a solution to the corporate power over politics in the western world.
The problem that I see is that socialism still centralizes power. Yes it's for the working class this time and not for the corporations and the bourgeoisie. But this is to me just a justification. It will not really be the working class who will rule after the revolution. You usually end up with a political class at the top of the party that pulls all the strings with planned economics and conspire against each other. I think history has proven this. You just end up with a new elite.

So socialism might seem as a good idea because it's opposed to wars. But you must understand that communism is just opposed to bourgeoisie wars. It's not against wars that the working class or a communist state wages against a bourgeoisie state. In this case they think war is justified. So socialist opposition to war is really a false picture. It's not that they are against wars but they just against certain wars. Against bourgeoisie wars. Not against communist wars.

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


YEAH!

Jesus is about caring for people, and caring about people is socialism.

GO FOR IT!

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
North Korea practices Juche philosophy. That is not Socialism.

At the outset of various state systems, socialists always say "This is socialist! This is the Future!"
Decades later they change their mind and say "Thats not socialist!"

If Juche is not socialism, why did the socialist thinkers of decades past proclaim it to be?

Originally posted by inivux
What is to say the island community won't share it? What is to say you won't be getting something in return?

They may or may not. Thats beside the point. The point is that me freely giving it makes both me happy and the receiver happy.. Them taking it makes everyone miserable - them with guilt, me with indignation.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I have to agree with Romantic_Rebel on this one. Juche is a mix of marxist and ancient korean philosophy. It's a very special form of politics that can only be applied to one country. Sort of like Peronism.

Jesus and socialism? Correct me if I am wrong, but Marx was against organised religion for it was an "opuim for the masses"

If you were a socialist, you'd reject the notion of mysticism and embrace rationale thinking.

reply to post by infinite


Yes he was against RELIGION. On the other hand I don't think he would have much objections against Jesus's PHILOSOPHY. But yes maybe Marx would object to it. But maybe not anarchist writers. So I agree with you to a certain degree. I think christianity is more compatible with libertarian socialism or anarchism. Ever heard of liberation theology?

And Jesus preaches against powerfull and rich people.
"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
-Matthew 19:24
Why do christians always seem to forget this important little piece of philosophia?

reply to post by Skyfloating


Stopped reading at ' the neo buddhist embracing capitalism'.
What's a neo buddhist anyways? A buddhist who refuses to give up his luxuries?

Buddhist analysis of capitalist economics reveals many unacceptable features of capitalism to Buddhism, despite the current virtual harmonious coexistence of Buddhism and capitalism. Those conflicts include:

www.stc.arts.chula.ac.th...

OP is half right. Jesus was not a socialist, since he didn't believe in any form of government but God's. But his values were closer to socialism. Giving to the poor, sharing your excess of fortune. I don't think he would like the times we are in, most of the wealth go to a few while the rest suffers.

He didn't promote to force people doing it, I think he hoped people would understand the benefits of a caring society.

Yes it may be an utopia at this point, but we need to start somewhere. Eventually socialism will grow enough for people to make it work like it is meant to.

And Socialism is not about giving up your luxuries, it is about providing, at least, a minimum to the people in need (food, water, healthcare, shelter).

Originally posted by infinite
Jesus and socialism? Correct me if I am wrong, but Marx was against organised religion for it was an "opuim for the masses"

If you were a socialist, you'd reject the notion of mysticism and embrace rationale thinking.

Well for me, as I am agonistic, I am looking Jesus as the "character" in the Bible. And not all socialist/liberals/communist/followers of christ are Christian.

Take away the miracles and the dogma he spat and he had a very positive message.

Many believe he was a good person and a real person but the "elite" mixed and matched what he said to give him a "different meaning".

reply to post by Metallic Monk


Erm, yes he would. Marx was an atheist. The doctrine of Christ is schismatic and Marx was against the idea of the ruling class dividing the people. Please, read the theory of socialism before associating yourself to it.

As for libertarians, Ayn Rand was an atheist and most libertarians I know reject and denounce the belief in god - it's used to repress the ability of man. And more bizzarely, you think anarchists would embrace a religious figure? the anarchists ideology is based on rejection of all forms of arbitrary power - including religion.

I've given your OP a lot of thought. If you have come for socialism, I believe you've come to the wrong place.