I have come to embrace Socialism!

Originally posted by Magnum007
Denying ignorance should be the first thing we do here, not making sarcastic idiotic remarks... I'm super disappointed that a moderator, who represents the company that they work for, acts in this manner...

Do facts make you feel uncomfortable?

Back on topic, NK is indeed partly the US's fault...

Spoken like a socialist. "Its not my fault that Im poor, its TPTB fault".

You said before that food-shortages came after the fall. The facts:

Soviet Food Rationing

You implied that Russian Food shortage is the Wests fault. But could it be that since socialism provides no incentive for creating value and wealth, it always ends up in poverty?

Could it be that its not a conspiracy by America, but simply inherent in socialism?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Janky Red

 

You`d be surprised at how similar Hitlers rhetoric, strategy and mentality was to that of some of the centuries socialists.

Whats that???

You'd be surprised that Karl Marx and Ayn Rand both ate food and were passionate about politics

You know if the "INDIVIDUALISTS" in American politics didn't do so much blocking, greasing and defending for
Collectivist fictitious business enterprises I could relent a bit. Hell, many of my "liberal" friends are confused in this regard also... The principle of money always seems to be the ultimate concern which is not a good foundation to build principle on in the first place, especially when individuals are virtually ruled by private collectives of individuals.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

That is nonsense, and it shows your poor understanding of what happens in socialist/communist countries...

What socialists countries are you talking about? THERE ARE NONE.

Most people in socialist/communist countries cannot have their own businesses, more so when the STATE/PARTY owns all infraestructure...how can a socialist/communist country be capitalist?... The ELITES do use capitalism, but the country is not capitalist because the people are not allowed to use, or be capitalists...

The elites are the capitalists.

Life is tough, too many people around the world think life should be easy...well it isn't... Try living in the woods for a while and see how fair life is...

You think life should be hard? That is why you support capitalism?

Capitalism allows for peple to exchange their products, or services to help each other. Capitalism has been used for millenia, even many ancient tribes used to trade with other tribes, for products the other tribe did not have, and that is capitalism...

Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production. Capitalism is not money or trading, it is not the only system that has this, socialism can have money and 'free-markets'. This is the lie you have been told, that capitalism is free-markets and anything else is slavery. The markets can not be truly free while the means of production (the means to produce needed resources for survival) are privately owned and controlled, and used to exploit the population. This is why some people are stinking rich, and some are starving from a lack of resources.

If people had access to the means of production, they could produce what they needed, but with capitalism they have to somehow make money first (hard to do when you own nothing) in order to purchase necessary resources from the capitalist. This only benefits the capitalist, not the people.

BTW, are you talking from experience as to what happens in socialist/communist countries?

There have been no true communists/socialist countries. But I have plenty of experience with the capitalist system. Capitalism is not working, someone somewhere is failed by capitalism everyday. The rich poor divide keeps getting WIDER, this indicates failure for the majority of people. 25,000 die a day from starvation, yet we have the ability, technology and man power to feed the world over many many times. Billions made in profit by the oil industry, and supported by the military. People die and communities destroyed so the few can live in luxury, and thousands die from lack of something as simple as food. Countries turned into poverty due to capitalists desire to take the worlds resources to make money for themselves.

Capitalism keeps resources artificially scares in order to maintain market prices at the expense of those that need those resources.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


You would have a good argument if all "rich" people were corrupt, but some of these people only make ca. 250,000 dollars a year, and worked hard their whole life to accumulate such an income; should they be stolen from too? And furthermore, would you have the government, the most corrupt entity of all, deciding who is worthy of their money and who isn't?

Originally posted by thrustbucket
You are omitting one massive and glaring component of what you just said.

Socialistic and Communistic communities DO and CAN work as long as EVERY participant is participating by choice. They have to want to be there, and they have to be able to opt out and leave when they want.

It's clear Jesus was an advocate of such. He didn't try to force that disciple out of his wealth - and that's what socialism is/does in all of history.

Everything Jesus taught was first qualified by one very important thing - individual choice. You can't compare his teachings to any political doctrine without putting it through that filter first.

Socialism is not a political doctrine, it is an economic system whereby the means of production are owned by those that work them.

And yes it is a choice. No need to force something that will make you better off (unless you earn from the exploitation of labour). No one would be forced to give up anything unless it is considered wrong, exploitation of labour is wrong. If you own a factory for example and use that to exploit labour to make you money, that is morally wrong. You are taking resources from people and then selling it back at a higher price, that is nothing but theft. You the private owner are the unnecessary leach on society. The millions taken in profit sitting in private bank accounts, or financing more exploitation, could be used to better our world. For all of us, not just the exploited.

Capitalism is enforced and protected by the state. The legal exploitation of labour. As a world we are getting nowhere fast. Where is the technology that is really helping us? Nothing is developed unless it makes money for someone. This means we will never see any kind of cheap clean fuel, we will see ever more 'processed' food etc., because we are driven by the desire for 'profit' rather than bettering society and the world as a whole.

We will simply collapse as a society if we continue as we are.

Originally posted by endtimer
reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet

 

You say you are a person just like everyone else? In what sense? Do you really
think that everyone else embraces this sick stuff? Socialism has never worked
in any country on this planet in any time of history. Don't compare yourself to
everyone else.

And to compare Jesus to Socialism is really, really sick.

I think Canada needs believers like yourself. Get packing !!

You really need to learn more about the world before you speak.

Education > Fox News

In many cases, social democratic parties are the dominant (India, Portugal, Australia) or second-placed (Italy, Sweden, Germany, United Kingdom) players within their respective political systems, though in some cases they are minor parties in federal politics (Canada, Ireland, Russia).[25] The United States is the only industrial nation that does not currently possess an official major social democratic party, although many consider large portions of the Green Party and some liberal factions of the Democratic Party (United States) to be social democratic.

Wikipedia

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Gakus
Jesus was in fact a socialist, anyone attempting to argue otherwise is downright full of ignorance. He did nothing but preach for mankind to give and help their fellow man and to share with them as if they were their own kin.

Care to even say otherwise? ROFL

Stop thinking like tools.

Can you tell the difference between giving freely and being forced to give? One feels like giving, the other feels like rape.

When the majority of people decide they want to give freely and vote as such, should the world continue to be held back by the minority of those who still seek selfish ends?

What if 99% of the world converts to a humanitarian utopia. Should they all bow down to the 1% who don't want to help others?

Are you not forced to wear cloths in public, not kill people, pay your bills, etc? These are all forced with the leverage of their specific consequences, do you feel raped? These policies FORCED on you are in place for the good of all.

Let's say you have a group of kids at the babysitters. One kid gets there before the rest and hoards all the toys from the other later arriving children. Does the babysitter not say to the child "please share with the rest of the children?" Do we pity the child when he's forced to share? Do you equate his being forced to share to that of being raped?

By the logic of capitalism, that child worked hard to gather the resources and no one else deserves any of them. We could easily say the same thing about the natural resources which capitalist proclaim as their own on a daily basis. Ever hear that song "This land is your land, this land is my land, from the.....?"

This world needs to grow up and recognize that the land and resources really do belong to ALL of us and we need to share them, not allow a very small percentage of the population control them while the majority of those on the planet toil in filth, starvation, and poverty.

But this is all common sense, isn't it? Does this really need to be explained?

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Does your wife have Alzheimers or something?

Really? You really thought it was necessary to say this in a debate?

Jesus does not support mandatory confiscation of one's assets, in order to allow politicians to hand it out to their chosen few. This is socialism.

If you want to help others, do it voluntarily.

reply to post by Riposte


That is not socialism. Have you looked at any of the links offering to explain what socialism is?
socialism 101

reply to post by Tryptych

*ahem* it is a proven fact of history that socialism only leads to widespread poverty, productive inefficiency, etc. etc.

reply to post by Ruffian


As opposed to great US capital system that keep comrade rich, happy, healthy, and will never fall for thousand years...



Magnum

reply to post by Tryptych


When we bombed most of the world it was after we were attacked, It's called W A R. Maybe not all that America has one in the past was perfect but we have provided over 25% of the worlds wealth. We have fed 3rd world nations that had nothing to offer, we just did it because it was the right thing to do. We are the police against the thugs of the world who attack and enslave their own citizenry. We were the beacon of freedom and the envy of the world and are now being destroyed by idiot one-worlders and supported by misguided useful idiots.The world was a hell of a lot better off with us as a strong nation and unless people start paying attention we will be desperately missed. There will always be plenty of people who believe the tripe off the stable floor about how bad and oppressive we are but for 200 years we were where people wanted to be. I'm sorry you have such bad feelings about your nation but it sounds like you have been sold history revised by the radical left.

reply to post by Misoir

All governments take through the use of force. It is the nature of man and wanting. Our government and country exist because our government used force to take land from Native Americans. It kidnapped and sold people and it stole resources from other countries. All the wealth that has been created in this country started with violence against others. Real violence and not just the distribution of wealth. Capitalism and free enterprise are just a sales pitch from the wealthy and haves to say please don't do to us what we did to acquire this. Now that we have it, it would be unfair to take it from us. Although fairness was never a word that came to mind when they were taking. Didn't the Rockefeller family start by selling snake oil remedies and defrauding people?

reply to post by Skyfloating

Whether you are aware of it or not, this is subtle neo-marxist propaganda and also not true. Historically some systems have proven to lead to more wealth, health and happiness overall. Capitalism is one of them.

Yeah I guess you are right...if you like basing claims on opinion and not fact.

US Wealth GDP Rank: 6-10 Depending on how you want to rank it.
US Health Rank: 37th according to the WHO
US Happiness Rank: 19th

The US also has one of the worst wealth distribution scales.

In the United States at the end of 2001, 10% of the population owned 71% of the wealth and the top 1% owned 38%. On the other hand, the bottom 40% owned less than 1% of the nation's wealth.[14] According to this 2006 study by the Federal Reserve System, from 1989 to 2004, the distribution in the United States had been changing with indications there was a greater concentration of wealth held by the top 10% and top 1% of the population

Now if you check my links you will see that many of the countries that rank higher than the US are socialist leaning countries. So your claims seem to be based more on opinion vs. fact.


Wiki GDP
WHO Health Rank
Happiness Rank
Wiki Wealth Distribution

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


Why is Jesus not a Communist and only a socialist.

Socialism/Communism/Capitalism are just schemes which are advantageous to a certain section of a society over the other. All of these have failed because of selfishness of the people. Man/society is not some object which can be perfected through processes like these because they do not address the root cause of conflict in the society. These and laws derived from these ideas cannot solve problems created out of selfishness.

Jesus was about ' love thy neighbour/enemy '. If you can do that, whatever philosophy you are forced to adopt, things would just be fine. His message is true irrespective of whether he is a God or if he ever existed.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage

Now if you check my links you will see that many of the countries that rank higher than the US are socialist leaning countries. So your claims seem to be based more on opinion vs. fact.

Social Democrats in Europe are universally considered centrists, not "socialist leaning".

And I never said USA is doing the best. They did better decades ago, back when the Reps and Dems still practiced Capitalism.

Originally posted by Janky Red
The principle of money always seems to be the ultimate concern

Being a Capitalist I will reveal the following: Once you have money, it means nothing anymore. All that has meaning then is making the community a better place and serving mankind.

Money only means a whole lot to those who have none and project their internal suffering onto some outside boogyman "evil capitalist".

Originally posted by brianmg5

When the majority of people decide they want to give freely and vote as such, should the world continue to be held back by the minority of those who still seek selfish ends?

This very question is the beginning of authoritarianism. Its the idea that individuals need to be put in line with the collective. Its based on the notion that you should or even can control everyone all the time. But they cant. Attempting to do so is a waste of time and the cause of conflict. You are more likely to be held back by Collectivist Governments than by single Individuals.