Bigfoot/Sasquatch Fact or Fiction?

i would like to add that this thread has been the most civil and interesting i have read here on ats. so much so, that i would like to add my .02 cents.

please read the following with an open mind.

i have had my own bigfoot sightings and experiences and i would like to address some of the questions posed so far and my current line of thinking based on my research of the topic.

for those who are deeply interested in learning more about bigfoot and their behavior, i highly recommend these two books for starters: "the locals" by thom powell & "enoch" by autumn williams. excellent reads.

"why haven't we found a body?"
people have but they quickly get hidden from public view. more on this later.

"people don't really care about finding bigfoot these days..."
they sure do, so much so that that's their main profession and it's their job to find out the latest research. some even contact those who may be getting too close. more on this later.

"why don't hunters just shoot one?"
the majority that have seen one get so scared by their experience with seeing a real-life bigfoot, shooting one is the last thing they want to do to it.
there are also many accounts of hunters stating that these creatures are so human in their appearance that they would feel like they committed murder instead of a killing regular animal, such as a deer.
and lastly, there are reports that the bigfoot "communicate" with them and quickly the hunter knows that killing one is a BAD idea because they are then afraid for their own life.

"why would the government start a hoax regarding bigfoot? when did this hoax begin and why?"
unbelievable but true, this has been going on for a while now. don't take my word for it, do more research and you will come to similar conclusions.
bigfoot is neither human nor animal based on what we think of as "human" and "animal". this is the one main piece that many people have yet to understand.

"trap cams?"
these will not generally work to prove bigfoot exist as they can detect when these are setup by humans and they can "sense" their presence and avoid them.

"what do they eat?"
both meat and vegetation and other interesting stuff.
they are excellent hunters and work in groups. they are extremely agile. they are excellent rock throwers and can use wood as clubs to knock out their prey. note, where you find one bigfoot, there is a good chance at least one more is close by. this is how some tend to operate.

"what do they do with their dead?"
they bury them. if one member is on the verge of dying, the family group tends to care for that individual in a secluded area such as a cave or an underground dwelling. whether death be due to illness, old-age, or even still-birth, the family unit mourns their loss and buries them according to their available natural resources. for instance, if a baby dies, the family may dig a big hole, fill it with leaves, lay the corpse, plot some dirt, and then place a young tree, about six feet in height or so with its roots still attached and carefully bury it and conceal the burial site with more leaves and brush. alternatively, they may bury their dead in remote caves, natural or deep in abandoned mine shafts.

"where do they sleep?"
in relatively remote and difficult to reach areas away from humans.they will use whatever natural resource they have to make a bedding of sorts.

"Sure people find a couple tracks but never follow them?"
tracks are difficult to follow for most people. only the obvious ones are the ones you tend to hear about. the bigfoot creatures know how to hide their tracks if need be.

"inter dimensional beings?" yes one race is...
the more common race known here in the u.s. as bigfoot is more "human-like".
and a second race is more "ape-like" and is your "skunk ape"
and a third race is known as "thought" forms and is "inter dimensional" in nature.
out of these three, the least understood is the "thought" form kind that do not "live" in this dimension. they appear for a short amount of time here. more on this later...

"A hunter would have shot one by now, or at least gathered a carcass,skeleton,hair,scat,blood,etc. for scientific
study for real."
again, do some more research and you will find numerous cases of folks finding hair/scat/blood for scientific study. the problem with all of these (aside from an actual body) is that scientists will only tell you what it ISN'T. since scientists don't have an actual body to examine, they cannot compare these other bigfoot findings and say that it IS a bigfoot. in this case it will always be inconclusive at best.

"1.5 million, I didn't realise these expeditions were so expensive"
this amount of money is not needed to prove the existence of bigfoot. most bigfoot researchers are approaching bigfoot field research in a inappropriate/unneeded way.

if you want to "prove" that bigfoot exists, you must start with proving it to yourself. most skeptics and some believers alike do not have ACTUAL experience out in the field and thus merely intellectualize the whole bigfoot debate. if you want to "prove" that bigfoot exists, try walking in their shoe-err, feet in order to really understand them. how is this accomplished? go to bigfoot hotspots and spend much of your time living, breathing the entire experience. native peoples and "habituators" are prime examples of the folks who are great resources. do not go there thinking that your high tech thermal/night vision cameras will "catch" them for you. go there and greet your fellow forest neighbors. go in peace, love and understanding and just maybe, you will get more than you bargained for! i speak from personal experience.

bigfoot as a whole will not be proven to the general population until people understand that they must humble themselves to nature and its wonderful offerings. once people as a whole can stop the whole power ego trip they have amongst themselves, bigfoot will be accepted and properly understood. contact will be made as a whole when the general population are ready for this event.

from what i have said so far, please, don't take my word for any of it. do your own field research and see what you find. i have stopped trying to show other people that bigfoot are real. unless they are willing to accompany me to the remote forests, i have little desire in showing them "proof".

thanks again for the great thread!

reply to post by dede95064


No, Thank you.

That was a great contribution. I wish more people would come forward.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Somehow I missed this thread and that's a shame.
Great OP that was all information without any sensationalism..
I must say that I picked the female aspect in the first few second and thought wow,
it it's a hoax why would they do that?

I'm in Australia and here they have found evidence of a giant lizard in the outback.
Scientists have assumed it to be over 10 meters long and obviously by recent tracks, still around.

You'd expect someone would have seen it and taken pictures by now but you know, the world is a bigger place than many realize..
I live in melbourne which has a pop of 4 mill, but just 40 mins drive away there is a gorge that is almost inaccessible to humans...Anything could be there...
S&F

It's not about believing. Not anymore. Giganopithicus is a 9ft humanoid skeleton found in the himalayan mountains. Look it up. It's about 3 thousand years old. So yes it's a FACT they've existed at some point. No reason they'd be extinct, because that is the only skeleton ever found.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Somehow I missed this thread and that's a shame.
Great OP that was all information without any sensationalism..
I must say that I picked the female aspect in the first few second and thought wow,
it it's a hoax why would they do that?

S&F

That alone is worth noting. it amazes me that some would think of faking a female Bigfoot when nobody at the time would have know it was a female.

reply to post by SLAYER69

That alone is worth noting. it amazes me that some would think of faking a female Bigfoot when nobody at the time would have know it was a female.

Yes and just a small point, if someone did make a fake female I'd expect them to have the breasts higher..
They appear lower in the vid than you'd expect them to be. IMO, that's not how someone would envisage them for a costume..

reply to post by backinblack


This is exactly why I disagree with the hoax possibility.

I hear again and again how it's strange that no bodies or skeletons have ever been found. This is indicative of a person who's never spent any time in the wild.

I've spent years and years in the wild, and animal bones just aren't lying out there, even when the animal population is extremely plentiful. Either they are covered, or more often, scattered and consumed.

And that's for what I would classify as non-hominids.

We've dug up enough Neanderthals to know that they buried their dead, so it isn't outside the realm of possibility that other hominids also bury their dead.

I have watched many of these so-called Bigfoot hunters, and these guys couldn't put the sneak on a cemetery. I've never seen such a bunch of loud, clumsy, idiots. Note too, that they rarely get off the roads. That's REALLY going to get you some looks.

These infrared trap cameras, and infrared cameras? To some species, especially those who are primarily nocturnal, it's just possible that they can see into the near infrared spectrum. In that case, the infrared cameras to THEM would seem as a spotlight - not an undetectable means of vision.

Whether this film was real or not - I don't know. Too many details unaccounted for to toss the entire thing away because some guy says he made the suit.

Maybe I did Lady Gaga.

Twice.

Spending lots of time in jungles, forest, and tundra, I can tell you that if you're going hunting, you need to play on the behavioral characteristics of your prey.

Bigfeet are reported to be primarily nocturnal. Communicate like other apes with wood knocking. Many, many reports of them approaching human females. Territorial. And we know infrared is as useful as breast-es-es on a Tomcat. Indications are they eat venison, berries, apples, and creek critters. In other words, natural food found locally. The reports indicate they are curious as well.

So the next question would be, studying and classifying all the reports, what characteristics keep manifesting themselves, and seem to be more common among the population?

I'm going thermal, in an intrusive manner, with hind quarters hanging nearby as bait, and I'll take female scent along with me. I'll use wood knocking to get attention, and have a .460 Smith just as PERSONAL protection, with a .338 Lapua for getting it done.

But anything less, and I think folks are fooling themselves.

If it's there, then you have to go after it intelligently.

If it isn't, you get to enjoy some quiet time in beautiful country.

I missed this thread as well the first time as well.

Amazing thread by the way Slayer.

I think Bigfoot is a possibility, without a a doubt.

They have Jeff Meldrum who is a top of the field scientist working on footprints, and if some people pulling hoaxes can fool this guy, I'll be stunned. He has seen so many footprint and can easily spot a fake. He has seen some that have been mangled and have scars on the bottom, that would be challenging to fake.

As for the Patterson/Gimlin film, both of them never said anything about a hoax. Patterson went to his death bed swearing it was legit, and Gimlin to this day swears it's real. Of course a special effects guy would take credit, it would boost his work, but, to me, that clearly looks like a real creature.

Meldrum participated in a study done where the proved that it would be impossible for a human to be in the suit. The proportions where completely off. I tend to trust real science more than a guy that can benefit from the hoax theory.

We have yet to go into places in the wilderness, as with our oceans. We make tons of discoveries of new species in our oceans why not our wilderness?

They are unable to find grizzly bones in the forest why would it be easy to find Bigfoot bones? Go google how hard it is to find Chimpanzee or Gorilla bones in the wild.

Also, if these creatures are close in intellect to humans, maybe they have some sort of burial ritual. Neandertals had burial rituals why not another human like creature?

Thanks for a great thread!!

Pred...

reply to post by FarArcher

I'm going thermal, in an intrusive manner, with hind quarters hanging nearby as bait, and I'll take female scent along with me. I'll use wood knocking to get attention, and have a .460 Smith just as PERSONAL protection, with a .338 Lapua for getting it done.

But anything less, and I think folks are fooling themselves.

If it's there, then you have to go after it intelligently.

If it isn't, you get to enjoy some quiet time in beautiful country.

Do you wish to film it or shoot it??
I'd hope film but I don't see mention of a camera, just guns...
I'll say now, that would digust myself and I'm sure many others..

I don't care if I had a Bigfoot and he gave me an exclusive interview.

The ONLY way science is going to recognize a new species is when you can put the carcass down and rub their nose in it.

So, YES, I would shoot it. And if it happened in a state where the non-existent Bigfoot was legally protected from shooting, I'd pack it up, drag it across another state line, and "find" him there.

Or her.

Originally posted by FarArcher
I don't care if I had a Bigfoot and he gave me an exclusive interview.

The ONLY way science is going to recognize a new species is when you can put the carcass down and rub their nose in it.

So, YES, I would shoot it. And if it happened in a state where the non-existent Bigfoot was legally protected from shooting, I'd pack it up, drag it across another state line, and "find" him there.

Or her.

Hmmm, kinda sickening to me...
Sad to see there's still some that think like that..
There are other ways such as darts to drug the creature but I guess once you're a bloodthirsty killer It's hard to change.

Well put together and thought out Slayer. I think it is always possible that we could discover a carcass or even a live 'bigfoot', just as we have yet to discover other life forms on earth. The fact that no carcass has been discovered is for me, not proof they don't exsist. To the contrary, the Patterson film, and many other photo's exist to tickle our curiosity, along with footprints that have been cast in several areas of the world. I would say truly that there is more 'proof' they do exist than 'proof' that they don't.

I remember while camping in a protected forrest area in North Ga called John's Mountian, we always heard the strangest screams coming from somewhere in the woods, even the resident state caretaker, who was very knowledgeable on the woodlands life around here, could not say what was making those screaming sounds. But he told us of people reporting seeing large hairy ape like beings in the woods at times, and that at least on one occasion the campers told of seeing it yell and sound like a female screaming, and that it did this in 3 short screams, stopped, and continued to do repetitions of 3 short screams, it walked away from the area they were watching it and that was that. It was reported to the caretaker.

I have always noted in the Patterson film, to me it looks like a female. The chest doesn't look like just the chest of an ape like man, it appears to have large breasts. Just an observation.

reply to post by backinblack


BackinBlack, the problem is mass. The art of sedating large animals is not exactly a science. And it takes forever for the chemicals to begin to act.

Now if you come face to face with a bipedal animal, obviously fast and reasonably intelligent, one that can run down a deer for a short distance, and one that can literally rip you in half, I promise you, you'll never even THINK about shooting the thing with a dart.

I accidentally came within sixty feet of a female Brown Bear, and when she rose to start sniffing, she kept on rising, and rising, and rising. Even though I was heavily armed with a heavy caliber, I was much too close. Even had I blown her heart out, she'd have been on my like white on rice.

No, I'm not darting.

I'll shoot. And shoot, and shoot, until I am positive certain it's dead. And then I'll be more scared than ever, as it's a good possibility that this one isn't alone, and I'm now the one being hunted.

It's a matter of both practicality, and a matter of providing IRREFUTABLE evidence.

The Bigfoot legend's close proximity to Salem, Oregon.

My wife and I hiked the path toward the creek. We noticed several trees that had been inexplicably snapped off about eight feet above the ground.

Suddenly an otherworldly cry filled the forest around us. It emanated from higher up the Rock Creek canyon, piercing with a strange timbre that was bestial and somehow human. Long and drawn out, with a middle section broken with unearthly trilling, it faded into a nothingness of echoes from afar.

We looked at each other and knew at once that the message was a territorial warning, that we had strayed into the domain of something beyond our knowledge. My wife and I have decades of wilderness experience, and never have we heard anything like it.

s&f for a great thread!
The more I watch the Patterson video and the attempts to either debunk or validate the video the more I fall on the side of the bigfoot believers. Initially I was not a believer but i am now!!!

Ive looked at the patterson film over and over and there are points like the boobs and the musculature that given the time that the video was recorded and the fact that it was amateur footage just dont make sense as a hoax... There are several reasons that the makers would of claimed it was a hoax not least of which is that they must of been sick to the back teeth by the end of their lives of arguing their point.

People continuously say 'it walks too much like a man' how the hell do they know how bigfoot is supposed to walk? If Bigfoot is closer to man than ape then why cant he have more of a man like gait?

Another point is of course the costume argument

In 2002, Philip Morris of Morris Costumes (a North Carolina-based company offering costumes, props and stage products) claimed that he made a gorilla costume that was used in the Patterson film.

well if I was in the costume business I would LOVE to claim this 'costume' as one of mine!

As for not finding skeletons well I've lived and walked in the countryside and woods for my entire life and only ever found one fox scull and one deer skull, if a creature is rare and/or buries its dead then the chances of finding the bodies are almost zero... How many people go missing each year and their bodies aren't found and we have serious detectives and teams of people looking for them!

The audio tapes of bigfoot cries are interesting because they do all seem to have the same 'call'


I really do think there is something to the bigfoot/Gigantopithecus theory

reply to post by Versa


Oh I agree, many here will want to tell others it's fake because it walks this way or that but meanwhile NOBODY is an expert and can tell another how it is SUPPOSE to walk because we haven't caught one yet to compare.

reply to post by SLAYER69


the more evidence that we are being 'allowed' to see about Neanderthals the more I believe in the possibility of bigfoot, we've gone from Neanderthals=brute to Neanderthals have art and religion in 20yrs! Im not saying bigfoot is a Neanderthal but it could be a Hominid that has remained hidden,,,

For what it's worth

reply to post by SLAYER69

Looks like the arms of my ex-son-in-law, but obviously not as stupid as him as it kept a proper frame out of the view of the camera.

Too many reports by too many people with nothing to gain, from all over the world, for too long to not have basis in fact.