Christianity does not allow for the existiance of alien lifeforms - despite the attempts to promote

reply to post by Xcouncil=wisdom


Your doing a great job... i think some are just a little "hard of hearing" having ears and all...

reply to post by AzoriaCorp


Just to pop in real quick before I go to work today...
I agree with both of your points...
1st...the bible does not say there isn't other life out there...and it stands to reason that lower forms of life could be preparing other planets for us...but as far as other intelligent physical beings that have free will like we do...
The angels which come in many forms are also free moral agents...and some of them have seen what satan has done and have chosen to fall out of Gods grace...so by reasoning on the scriptures...the issue of Gods sovereingty, his right to rule is an issue that is not only universal but crosses the physical plane of existance and into the spiritual...why would he keep on creating if he would have to send his son to cover the sins of a race that has the potential to be perfect over and over again...that doesn't sound 'once and for all time' to me.

2nd. I agree wholeheartedly, thats what makes this whole thing a conspiracy....when church leaders see the popularity of an idea, that is contrary, when examined to bible teachings...then they are distorting the word of God for their own purposes.


Now, I'm gonna go ahead here and make clear a point that I am sure anyone reading my previous posts can assume.

I do not discredit anyone who saw something they can't explain.
If I had more time, I would quote the many verses, that some posters have already noted, that of the ability of Satan and his demons to ; A. Take physical form and B. Make themselves apear as they are not.
C. Who here thinks the government is telling them everything there is to know about the technologys they have?

I do not discredit anyone who feels they have had otherwordly type experiences...the idea that other forces are affecting people is a fact to me. I just recognize the biblical explanation that Satan knows he has a little time left to misslead the nations, and he will use every tactic available...and if he could get the popular notion that we can be saved by benevolent aliens that his demons are posing as..then he'd be more than happy to use that tool.

Laters guys, thanks
X

Originally posted by tspark
I know they are mammals.... but we eat mammals too...

you didn't discount that they taste like tuna...

Not to get too far off topic, but.

First you called them fish. Then stated they taste like tuna. Do mean the dolphin-fish? AKA mahi-mahi.

en.wikipedia.org...


These are two different species.

And as far as I am aware the only people who eat the mammal dolphin are the Japanese.

reply to post by AzoriaCorp



You may have a point there... Although, if we do have brothers out there, then they are accompanying us on this trek through God's plan. If they know Christ then they become co-contributors in the truth of his message.

Although I agree that we shouldn't let this be a distraction to the presence of god, we also shouldn't ignore their potential fraternity.

reply to post by Xcouncil=wisdom


You keep referencing Jesus’ coming to earth to save humanity and God's sovereignty.

First off what do you mean by "God's sovereignty?"

Second, God and the bible simply doesn’t mention intelligent life elsewhere. Its irrelevant to God's cause and agenda. The bible does not directly or indirectly dismiss willful intelligent beings elsewhere as God wants the focus to be on him. Humans have enough distractions...

Third, Jesus came to save humanity because humans NEEDED saving via corruption (sin). Humanity failed in Noah's time and was supposedly tampered with by angels (according to Enoch) so he wiped them out in the flood. Sort of a earth/humanity reset button.

When humanity fell again, he sent Jesus to save humanity through forgiveness and sacrifice as he promised not to flood the earth again.

When humanity falls again, according to Revelations, Jesus will come again and reign for a time and then destroy it for all time and will be the end of humanity.

How do we know said aliens elsewhere DID NOT fall and are living in a extraterrestrial Eden?

Humans would still be in Eden and walking with God on Earth if it weren't for the first sins of Adam and Eve.

Humanity fell 2 times. 3 strikes we're out.

Aliens elsewhere may not have gone the same route.

IF they exist that is. So the whole "God's bias towards humans" theory is moot, is what I'm saying.

reply to post by AzoriaCorp


The Bible says for ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of God....if the "Aliens" did exist then they fell to..

Adam fell and he walked with God side by side...in the garden... we who have never seen God could do no better....

it like feudal representation ....in Adam

reply to post by palg1


I wouldnt go as far as calling them our "brothers" unless they are just more humans on other Earths, its plausible, but I hightly doubt that.

According to the bible we ARE special as its states we were created in his image and therefore are his children. There are other intelligent species on this planet like primates and dolphins, but they are not as special as humans and are not God's children, just a few of many of God's creatures. However, they aren't afforded the attention and special love humans receive. So, aliens may not fall in with God's law, mercy or love.

They are merely highly adapted, highly intelligent creatures of God. Nothing more.

If you have faith in the bible, you dont have to worry about aliens destroying humanity. God specifically said HE would destroy the Earth, and only He.

According to God, Humanity will fall and God will destroy the Earth before aliens even get the chance.

Originally posted by AzoriaCorp
reply to post by Xcouncil=wisdom

 

Second, God and the bible simply doesn’t mention intelligent life elsewhere. Its irrelevant to God's cause and agenda. The bible does not directly or indirectly dismiss willful intelligent beings elsewhere as God wants the focus to be on him. Humans have enough distractions...

Indeed. Which goes quite well with the sayings; "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them. "Exodus 20:3, 5

"I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me"

Exodus 20:2–17"

reply to post by tspark


The bible, God's word, is what you're referencing; it is meant to be applied to HUMANS only, he is speaking to Humans only, not ALL creatures of God. Only his children. The bible references "Man" and by that it is to apply to huMANity only. Otherwise, ALL creatures, cats, dogs, bugs, EVERYTHING would go to heaven or hell. This simply isnt true.

reply to post by AzoriaCorp

Second, God and the bible simply doesn’t mention intelligent life elsewhere. Its irrelevant to God's cause and agenda. The bible does not directly or indirectly dismiss willful intelligent beings elsewhere as God wants the focus to be on him. Humans have enough distractions...

Actually in Genesis the newer translations have obscured the meaning of the heavenly host. Celestial beings and angels are the same thing. They come from and inhabit the heavens.

1 Corinthians 15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another."

Genesis 2:1 "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of THEM."

It doesn't say of the earth it says of both the heavens and the Earth.

Yah is often called the Lord of Hosts,

Psalm 103:21 "Bless you the LORD, all you his hosts; you ministers of his, that do his pleasure."

Nehemiah 9:6 "You, even you, are LORD alone; you have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and you preserve them all; and the host of heaven worships you."

Celestial beings inhabit celestial places. They are not biological in the sense that us humans are. So there is of course extra-terrestrial life, because angelic beings are not of this Earth now are they?

However it is not that we in ancient times until now had mistaken biological aliens to be angels or gods, but rather today we mistake angels and the fallen angels especially to be aliens. The Bible is not silent on celestial life. Heaven is really mostly used of sky and the things above it.

For instance:

Enoch 2: "Observe ye everything that takes place in the heaven, how they do not change their orbits, and the luminaries which are in the heaven, how they all rise and set in order each in its season, and transgress not against their appointed order."

Enoch 6 "6

"And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Samîazâz, their leader, Arâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Tâmîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl. These are their chiefs of tens."

That's one of many examples in the Scriptures of angelic, eternal heavenly beings.

reply to post by Xcouncil=wisdom


SO, basically that's it then? Boring, you mean to tell me that after all this grace and beauty and trial and trivulation that it's all cake afterwards? This is as hard as it's ever going to get for me all eternity? I don't know about you guys, but even though life is hard I LOVE IT and I'd experience it again and again and hopefully in and on different planets, dimensions, and lifeforms. I guess life has been very hard for you to hold on to the beleif that when you die and you been good you just go to heaven forever...

reply to post by agentofchaos


Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and opinions on the purpose and process of life. However, in Christianity, its reality to them; whether its boring or not, is irrelevent.

Originally posted by Xcouncil=wisdom
reply to post by 19872012

 

Well....then they are not aliens are they...I intend to be clear...The bible is clear that angels are spirit creatures.
There is also the fact that in the bible angels have taken human form.
Still angels...
The point being made is that God after first creating the angels and then man would not have created 'other' sentient lifeforms.
Now...I'm all for the demons posing as aliens idea if thats what you meant.
Wouldn't that really be something.

Demons pose as aliens after most of the planet is looking for them...and they say...'oh, by the way it was us that made you way back then...'
Best deception ever.

edit on 30-9-2010 by Xcouncil=wisdom because: to add a word

Your right and wrong at the same time.

Demons took that shape of Grays because they sin against our God Jehovah and wore thrown to earth in a physical shape because they don't hold the holy spirit with in them anymore, they do not have access of going back to the heavens where God have his kingdom, ( yeah the Egyptian god's Star Gate and other Pyramids was shut off by God Jehovah ) Jehovah is an active force, and angels are dimensional entities that can take any form they wish to. Yahweh said to Yesuah: " let's do our likeness."

and here we are, with one head, two arm, two legs, fingers, eyes, mouth, you get the picture right?

So that means we do look something like them in a physical world.

Humans and Anunnaki they are alike and so are the new Hybrid Nephilim of today.

(in other word these Hybrid are human imitation just like we are an imitation of our God Jehovah the New Nephilim are an Imitation of their Moon god Al-lah).

reply to post by yahushuasaves


I'm not sure if you agree with me or disagree. I couldnt tell due to the fact you pretty much reiterated my points and then turned around and went the other way with others.

Overall, God or the Bible, does not DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY rule out intelligent life or unintelligent life elsewhere. He may reference life in the whole scheme of the heavens and Earth but life can be interpreted in an organic way or spiritual way. Its life, or more specifically, energy, either way you look at it.

Bottom line: God's word AKA Bible, is His word to Humanity and Humanity alone. He expresses this specifically as we are his people, his children, and in his image. Anything else is just a creation of God such as animals or bacteria, whatever. It is still to be respected but not in the same way as humanity is to God. It is a special love relationship between God and his children.

Animals, and other organisms terrestrial or not, are NOT under the same law or purpose that God has intended for humanity.

So overall, to stay on topic, Christianity is NOT to be confused with believing in aliens or not. It neither forbids or denies alien life's existence or the belief thereof.

The only way it would be against God's law is if aliens were worshipped.

Originally posted by palg1
I find your reasoning is flawed. You fail to deduce anything in your statement and bring no scripture to the table to prove your point.

I mentioned plenty, Creation for example. Do you think the universe was literally made in 7 days? Or does everything Aliens probably have a better explanation for turn into allegories and metaphors?

Do you really believe Eve was made from Adams rib?

"bu-but they're all metaphors".

Originally posted by palg1
Why do you think that God needs to tell us everything he knows.

This is just a poor rationalization. Vastly more intelligent life elsewhere, who will probably contradict biblical truths, is on a "need to know" basis. Which would make God almost a liar.

Originally posted by palg1
God reveals his plans on his own terms not ours.

Funny how God suddenly needs another human or an organization to explain his plans to us when such organizations see Aliens as a potential threat to their belief system and integrity/authority.

Remember what they did to Galileo and Bruno.

Maybe he should explain it in person for once, but you know and I know that's not gonna happen.

Originally posted by AzoriaCorp
There really isnt anything in the Christian bible that suggests that earth life is the only existing life anywhere.

Absence of a claim is not evidence of a claim. For example Abotion. The bible doesn't mention the word abortion at all.

The most commonly quoted texts in regards to abortion occur in poetry, an unfortunate fact for Christian conservatives, because they are already clearly on record for denouncing the idea that Biblical poetry can be taken as literal.

In other words it's a strawman argument since the claim isn't what it doesn't say, but what it does. In regards to creation, human origin, and Jesus being the "only way" it paints a strong picture that humans are pretty much the main concern for God. You'd have to go some pretty big hoops to say that vastly more intelligent life elsewhere was a second thought to God and he couldn't be bothered to mention them.

I'd be surprised if Aliens confirm everything in the Christian bible as true and accurate (creation, origin of man etc.) I'd like to see what rationalizations ppl will come up with then "Oh, they're demons in disguise" etc.

reply to post by AzoriaCorp



All flesh is under the curse of sin....for the curse of sin is Death....

What makes you think that animals don't go to heaven?

All creation again is under the curse of sin...

reply to post by Xcouncil=wisdom


I usually don't reply to UFO/alien type topics on ATS, because many members believe they exist, and my posts would be troll like in nature, so I just stay right out of it.
I will say this because this topic lends itself to it. The theory of Alien life in the universe in addition to angels, is a massive distraction, for millions it obscures basic truths.

Originally posted by AzoriaCorp
reply to post by tspark

 

The bible, God's word, is what you're referencing; it is meant to be applied to HUMANS only, he is speaking to Humans only, not ALL creatures of God. Only his children. The bible references "Man" and by that it is to apply to huMANity only. Otherwise, ALL creatures, cats, dogs, bugs, EVERYTHING would go to heaven or hell. This simply isnt true.

Exactly. Adam(Man) sinned and Christ took the form of Adam to redeem Adam. Other possible races/beings are not going to be held accountable for what the race of man did.

I am not saying what I believe one way or another, but I just wanted to pose that the Bible clearly allows for E.T.'s to exist and if your argument against this is the sacrifice of Christ then it is an illogical argument.

I have not been on in awhile, but I have to respond to this.

Christianity by default is an Abrahamic faith with Judaic roots. That said, Judaism not only allows the existence of other sentient lifeforms, Kabalist texts like the Zohar mention G-d creating tens of thousands of other worlds. The Sefer Yetzirah goes even further, mentioning Seven Earths. Bear in mind some of these texts talk of the earth's circumference, even measuring it at 24,000 miles. They come from oral traditions stretching back thousands of years to times even before the Greek philosophers.

Nor is this world, inhabited by man, the first earth created by G-d. He made several earths before ours, but he destroyed them.

The Legends of the Jews, Ginzberg

Among Jewish legends is the text "The Inhabitants of the Seven Earths". In the legend G-d takes Adam on a tour of the other worlds.

The Seven Earths are seven planets each with their own firmaments and suns.

The first is Erez, a dark world of storms. The most distant from our Earth.
The second is Adamah, where phantom like shadow beings dwell. They visit earth often as Ovoth (Dibbukim)
The third is Arka, inhabited by Cainites, giants(Nephilim) and dwarf/pygmy beings.
The fourth is Ge, a world of great wealth and knowledge, inhabited by human refugees from earth. (Sometimes said to have two suns). Gehenna "Hell" is said to be here.
The fifth is Neshiah, inhabited by a strange dwarven/pygmy race. (Sometimes said to have a red sun)
The sixth is Tziah, a barren desert planet ruled by humans. They visit earth, some say to eat people.
The seventh is Tebel, inhabited by humans. Said to be our Earth. It is the only one where Wheat grows and thus only we eat bread.

The Lilim, the seed of Lilith, is also said in legend to live among the otherworlds and travel to our Earth.

The Lilin multiply like humans, eat and drink and die. And they are from the six earths which lie beneath us. And Lilith came against the will of Adam and became hot from him. And they [the inhabitants of Adamah, the second from below of the seven earths] are always sad, full of sorrow and sighs, and there is no joy at all among them. And those cohorts can fly up from there to this world on which we stand, and they become harmful demons.

Sefer Emeq Ha Melech 179d-180a

Islam also contains these seven worlds, but somehow over the years Islamic scholars decided the worlds were layers of our earth.

In the original concept, the Seven Earths are separated by the abyssal waters (Space), the closest being 500 years away. The furthest at 3000 years.

The concept of these Seven Earths goes all the way back to ancient Mesoptamia. Its even found in Zorastrianism and among the Yezidis. In the Yezidi faith, Satan has dominion over all Seven earths.

Lastly, I have to mention that humanity wasn't the only sentient species or creature in Gan Eden or on Earth.

Now the serpent was more subtle than any of the beasts of the earth which the L-rd G-d made.

Genesis 3:1

In legend the serpent creature stood upright like a man and was as tall as a camel (7 to 8 feet tall).

Among the animals the serpent was notable. Of all of them he had the most excellent qualities, in some of which he resembled man. Like man he stood upright upon two feet, and in height he was equal to the camel. Had it not been for the fall of man, which brought misfortune to them, too, one pair of serpents would have sufficed to perform all the work man has to do, and, besides, they would have supplied him with silver, gold, gems, and pearls.

The Legends of the Jews, Ginzberg

Unlike humanity, the serpent and his seed were not exiled from Eden. They were cursed to eat "Afar", which could be dust, ashes, burnt offerings, fat, or refuse. Then enmity was set between its seed and the seed of man.

Even humanity was said to be more alien according to legend.

Before, their bodies had been overlaid with a horny skin, and enveloped with the cloud of glory. No sooner had they violated the command given them than the cloud of glory and the horny skin dropped from them, and they stood there in their nakedness, and ashamed.

Legends of the Jews, Ginzberg.

So we have multiple legends and oral traditions mentioning Seven worlds inhabited by multiple lifeforms.

I also have to give a shout out to the Mormons. The Mormons believe Elohim created hundreds of thousands of worlds. Kolob is said to be the oldest system in creation according the Mormon Book of Abraham.

Originally posted by igor_ats

Originally posted by palg1
This does not go against any of the RC's doctrine. Go to the link and see for yourself.

RC Church Position[/url][url=http://www.cin.org...]

By deductive reasoning of the bible it certainly does go against Christianity in general.

Unless Christians deceive themselves and try and say everything from creation to human origin are simply allegories and metaphors than it is highly improbably intelligent life will agree man is the center of creation and back up all the other things in the bible.

Your fundamentalism betrays you. As a matter of fact, Roman Catholicism does dot prescribe to the fundamentalist belief that Genesis is a factual representation of the creation of the earth and the universe. We believe that the Creation account is a metaphor, a mythology shall we say, passed along to instruct and show the power of God in terms that the people of those eras could comprehend. Therefore the belief that God created men/humans concurrently on other earthy bodies is perfectly acceptable. If you chose to consider this point, which honestly I find quite entertaining, then that's fine by me. If not, so be it, I won't interfere. On the other hand, I don't believe that we should waste to much time contemplating it within our religious life, as it would only serve as a distraction from our relationship with God.

I'll reiterate an earlier point that whether or not these other civilizations know of Jesus is not really relevant to their existence as men. Are they saved, only God knows for now. We'll find out once they touch down and have a chat with us......

I will concede however that not all Christian denominations adhere to this school of thought. Just don't generalize ok?